Kingdom Hearts 2 'Rowdy Rumble'

[Chernabogue]

V.5 :

V.4 :

My second ReMix WIP is a KH II's Rowdy Rumble ReMix.

Please comment ! Freedback will be greatly appreciated !

[Uboichi2]

I like the ideas you got for the arrangement, though I have to admit that it's far from flawless. i.e. It could be really nice if the the left hand part had some extra lower octaves doubled or something. It's too much played in the same registers, while the piano has an immense range.

Other than that, I find it really hard to believe this was played and recorded. It sounds really sequenced. It sounds really mechanical and not very human.

[Chernabogue]

Added some littles lower octaves. Thank for the advise, Uboichi !

[Rozovian]

Yes, it sounds sequenced. Sure you don't have any automatic quantization (auto timing fixes)? That would seriously screw up any human elements. Also, the full-power, max-velocity playing is really hurting the possible dynamics this track could have. Play softer at times, harder at other times, it makes it sound less like an angry sequencer and more like a human being playing.

The performance sounds pretty good to me (albeit lacking human qualities), tho the recording could use some cleaning up. There's background noise and a lot of annoying ticking sounds. Also, there's eitrher someone with a way too quiet bass int he background or there's something weird about the low keys on the piano.

I recommend you record this in midi instead. You'll lose some of the acoustic qualities of the piano, but you'll gain so much more control that it's probably better. At least if you can't record a cleaner version than this.

Also, there's a few times where I thought the hands were clashing a bit, about 2/3 through, it's like either hand is a seminote (or something) off. Might be part of the style you're going for, but it doesn't sound right.

Overall, this track has great potential, but it needs to be cleaner and more human.

[Chernabogue]

OK, I'm back with some new.

- Better Audio Quality

- Tempo Changed

Freedback will be greatly apreciated !

... An dthanks for your advises so far !

[Rozovian]

I can still hear some noise.

EQ down the middle frequencies, they sound a little overpowering. You should also raise the bitrate a little, 128 can mud up some of the pretty high frequencies. 160 should be fine, and over 200 is overkill.

The playing sounds more human, tho it still feels a little too loud. It's less of a problem than in the previous wip, iirc. Also, the timing seems almost inhumanly accurate (no offense ), at least to me.

You should also apply some reverb to give it some more performance qualities. That could also mask the noise a bit, so better recording equipment would be better.

There's some crits and suggestions for you. I'm no expert on piano music, but this sounds pretty good.

[Uboichi2]

Some suggestions on the arrangement:

0:00 and 1:33 you're using that 'timpani motive' a lot throughout the song. I suggest you change that for something different just for the short parts. It'll give the listener a bit of a breather. i.e. you could make the bass line one loud note played in octaves which could be suspended for the entire intro.

1:27-1:31 You might want to play the melody here with an extra higher octave on top. Maybe add a ritunuendo, but it can do without as well. What would be cool though, is if it was played crescendo ending really loud, with a fermata on the last chord. You have a bit of climax there, but it doesn't feel like a climax, which can easily be solved with some basic dynamics.

You might also wanna add some grace notes or more harmony to the original source tune. As it is now it is a bit dull.

There are lots of different little changes you can make here and there that hardly change your song as a whole, but will improve it a lot. Just keep listening and comparing to other piano works.

[Chernabogue]

Ok, I did some littles changes, a less loud intro and the song is now shorter (the end is changed a little too).

Thank you for your advises guys !

[Uboichi2]

A major improvement!

But...

1. It needs more humanization. You should try to get in more clearer differences in dynamics. It's all a bit around MF atm. Don't be afraid to use those PPs and FFs. Also don't be afraid to use pedals. Don't overdo them either. Even though the piece has a very staccato character, it might be a good idea to drop a hint of legato here and there.

2. The audio quality needs to be beefed up a lot. At the very least some basic reverb needs to be added. I added a quick reverb to your latest version so you can hear what a difference reverb can make.

3. Maybe this can be really funny if you can find some good Honkey Tonk samples. I'm not really sure if it would be a good idea, but this arrangement just gives me a bit of a Wild West Saloon feel to it, which usually sounds nice with Honkey Tonk piano sounds.

Keep up the good work!

[relyanCe]

Hey dude! I'm working on this song for a possible ReMix myself, so I thought I'd share some thoughts on the song and what I think of your (extremely promising) interpretation!

First of all, Uboichi is dead on with what he said about diversifying the dynamics. A song like Rowdy Rumble shouldn't run static with its dynamics, so definitely throw in some shifts. The recurring intro theme could be a little softer imo, and the parts like that spify bit at 35" could really use some more noise. Also, the intro part seems a little drab and could maybe use a little extra speed, but that's just me.

I'm no expert, so take this for what it's worth. I really like this, great work so far!

[Chernabogue]

Oh, thank you for your freedback !

relyanCe, I'm interested to hear your WIP and to comment it, if you give me a link.

Also, Uboichi2, thank you for the reverb and for the "Honkey Tonk" idea, I'llsearch some samples. For the song's quality, I wait for my very final version and I'll try to make a 192kps version

[relyanCe]

Well, mine will be up in the WIP forum as soon as... well... it's halfway presentable lol. I'm pretty much done writing it, now I have to somehow produce it while working on summer courses (grad. acceleration, so you don't think I'm a failure )

[Chernabogue]

After some holidays... Major new things in the remix ! Now, it's more gloomy, like in KHII's Underworld but it's still sympathic !

EDIT : Oh, Tindeck Audio has some problems. Here's another link : http://boomp3.com/listen/c0peij1ei_0/khii-welcome-to-hell

[Rozovian]

How many hands does an organist have? Even considering pedals, I'm not sure it's realistic. But it is cool.

Work some on the production, use reverb. I'd also recommend compressing the mids and lows, perhaps looking into the sample you're using, see if there's any way to boost the highs in the mid-range notes without making the higher range notes painful. Some master EQ might work, or a multiband compressor.

As for the writing, it gets repetitive, so you might want to use more than one organ, more than one instrument to get a more varied sound. Pipe, electric, there are so many types of organs and each can have a number of different sounds, not to mention ways to process the samples. From 1:32 when the writing repeats from the start of the track, you might want to swap instruments, or at least send a few parts over to another instrument... or another octave of what you've already got. Your call.

As for source usage, it's quite conservative. There's stuff I don't recognize from source, and suits the track well. I'm more bothered by the repetitition, but you might want to have a look into source/interpreation of it too.

Anyway, Uub's crits are spot on, at least the first two. Not sure I recommend doing #3, but it sounds plausible. Good work so far.

[Chernabogue]

Splitted into 3 parts with differents instruments. Also a little tempo change in the end.

http://boomp3.com/listen/c0qhwpo2r_e/welcome-to-hell

[Rozovian]

Hm... Not what I thought it'd be. It's less repetitive, but also less cohesive.

I'm hearing some stereo effect I can't quite put my finger on, it's a bit annoying. The track is obviously stereo, but much of it is so centered that it becomes annoying. Not sure if you're using a reverb here, could just be release tails, but I think you need more reverb regardless.

The middle section has a flute or something that's just plain annoying in the higher range - there's a frequency in it that you should try to reduce. It could also be a result of whatever stereo effect you've used. Some of the instruments work well, some... not quite. There's this weird synthetic sound it it all, and while it could be sampled, I'm guessing this is fully synthetic. Making it more obvious could work, but I can't promise you anything.

The final section, just strings or strings-like synth, is interesting. The speed does make it different from the other sections, but the long attacks and releases take away from the clarity the other sections had.

The repetition in the writing is still a problem. Also, the organ section is the best of the three, the others aren't nearly as refined and defined as that one. What do you think yourself?

[Chernabogue]

Hummm... Organ is good, tempo changes can be good. So I made this, it's just the organ with 3 parts and tempo changes. Perhaps, the 3rd part may be too fast. And for the writing too much repetitve, it may be because you have heard this song too many times That's why this version is also a little shorter.

http://boomp3.com/listen/c0stnobvs_7/hell

[PianoCat5]

To Chernabogue54, are you the same person who submitted this arrangement to Squaresound? There's a Rowdy Rumble piano arrangement on there which is exactly the same as your piano version, posted by an Adam Mclean. At least, it's the same as your old version. Just wondering.

[Rozovian]

To Chernabogue54, are you the same person who submitted this arrangement to Squaresound? There's a Rowdy Rumble piano arrangement on there which is exactly the same as your piano version, posted by an Adam Mclean. At least, it's the same as your old version. Just wondering.

Did he just call MIDI rip?

Transitions between sections suck. They need to be so much smoother to work. And you're right about the third section being too fast.

I think you're focusing on the wrong issues. The problem is that the track gets repetitive and thus boring. I'm capable of forgetting a track after I hear it a few times and crit it. It happens more often than me remembering them... I think (can't remember). The repetitive nature of the track has nothing to do with the number of times I've heard it, it's the writing and isntrumentation.

The writing is similar (plus repeated twice), and the instrumentation is just... boring (nothing wrong with an organ, but it gets old before the track is finished, especially an unprocessed organ). Also, I'm not hearing any reverb or other processing that you could use to give some more character to the track and take away from its raw writing-feel.

So no, this version isn't enough of an improvement. However, you improving is good. That's what I hope you're doing.

I think you should take a step back from the track, listen to some other organ music, and see what makes it interesting. Then see if you can do the same with this. Both the writing and the overall sound. Good luck.

[blue.nocturne]

I really don't think the organ works, at least that kind of organ you are using.

It also feels really dry and mechanical.

I would suggest sticking to piano, or to add more instruments, using the organ as the harmony rather than the main melody.

As Rozovian mentioned, the main issue is keeping it interesting, so be sure to keep playing with it.

[Chernabogue]

I have very few moments now to mix, as school is back... But here's my new ersion of the songs, I think it's really better than the previous versions.

[Rozovian]

Your choice of sound keeps being problematic. Try an electric piano.

Drums and transition from single instrument to band felt very unnatural. The drums and the organ aren't in the same tempo (becomes glaringly obvious around 2:11), making it sounds stupid. Using drums, however, isn't a bad idea. It just needs to fit, rhythmically and in tempo.

For most of the track, you've got this left-hand writing that's just octaves. 0:07-0:21 could work well without it, imo, especially since you've got basically the same thing at 1:04. Not telling you how to write your track, just suggesting.

I do agree that (for most part), it's better than the previous versions. You're definitely heading the right direction. Keep working on it, if you're getting better, your music is too.

[Uboichi2]

This mix doesn't need the organ as solo and then a band version. Just the band version would be way nicer. The rest of any possible comments are already given by Rozovian, so I won't repeat those. Keep it up, you'll get there eventually.

[Chernabogue]

This is the band version of the remix without percussions, because I didn't have the time to put it and I wanted to know what do you think of it.

Perhaps, the samples are a little crappy IMO and it may sound less repetitive than in the previous versions.

[Cottus and Gyes]

Still too repetitive, seems as though you are only masking the same section with different instruments. I also think your instrument choice is one of your key problems.

Go back to the piano solo and add in more of your own to break up the repitition.