Modern Pop Music

[Beatdrop]

I think I'm not alone in feeling that modern popular music is destroying society. It's really unfortunate, but today's MTV Generation is tomorrow's U.S. Government, so... yeah, it's problematic.

HOWEVER! I'm not sure how much attention people here pay to what's on the radio or on MTV or what not, but shockingly enough, it's not all bad. Some songs I've been hearing in the past six months or so in particular are definitely impressing me with their writing and production. Obviously, there's still far more garbage than gold, though, so I wanted to just ignite a little conversation about what peoples' takes are in general on pop music as it stands today, as well as give a few shining examples of the type of stuff I think could still save the music industry and stop completely melting the brains of the youth.

(EDIT: For the first 4 out of 5 videos, you're going to need to follow the YouTube link to watch it ON YouTube, because Universal Music Group fuckin' eats it.)

Example #1:

Kevin Rudolf feat. Lil Wayne - Let It Rock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsrkFNodBGQ

Just heard this on the radio for the first time yesterday, and it took me by surprise for two reasons: it doesn't preach at length about "bitches," and it successfully combines numerous different genres into one. The end result is pretty kickass, not gonna lie. It's very anthemic, very powerful, and very fresh.

Example #2:

Rihanna - Disturbia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6zdhHLvT7k

Rihanna continues to impress me. With a lot of her biggest hits, she definitely tends to break some conventions with Pop/R&B. Stuff like this and "Don't Stop The Music" very nearly entirely stepping over the border into Dance music, which is interesting when you consider how much airplay it's getting. I still remember the first time I heard "Shut Up & Drive" on the radio. I was like "WTF? Guitar in a track by Rihanna? Rock influences? Huh-wha?!" Anyway, yeah, I find myself uncontrollably enjoying a lot of Rihanna's work.

Example #3:

Flobots - Handlebars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuK2A1ZqoWs

When I first saw this on MTV, I was about to chalk it off as garbage based on the first few seconds of the song and the video, but I'm sincerely glad I didn't. This song's lyrics and message are really damn powerful, especially when combined with the video. And as for production... it has a friggin' trumpet solo. Still, it saddened me when I had to explain to someone what this song's about. Hopefully if more stuff like this continues to top the charts, I won't need to explain things that seem plainly obvious to people anymore.

Example #4:

Chris Brown - Forever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2IExa2A198

I worked painstakingly to figure out what this song was after I first heard it near the vending machines at work. When I found out it was courtesy of the same guy that made that god awful "Run It" song, I did a double-take. This song is astoundingly musical and well-composed for Pop music. Tons of melodies and harmonies fill the stereo field from start to finish, and although the use of auto-tune vocals is getting a little ri-goddamn-diculous lately, this song does it pretty tastefully, and it fits really well. I must have listened to this 6 or 7 times in a row after I first identified it. I'm ALMOST ashamed, but... it's a really good song. But it's comforting to see an artist actually GROWING and making better stuff instead of ceaselessly duplicating the same shit that made him famous.

Example #5:

Maroon 5 feat. Rihanna - If I Never See Your Face Again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK-H76JeFpA

It couldn't be helped. Rihanna made this list twice. But since this is mainly a song by Maroon 5, I don't feel terribly guilty about it. This song... FUCKING ROCKS. Big time. Maroon 5 gives me hope for Rock music. They're not the only ones, but they're an outstanding example.

Anyway, that's all for now. Feel free to contribute your thoughts about Pop music as it stands today, and also any examples of stuff you've heard on the radio or seen on TV that caught your ear or eye, respectively.

EDIT: ARGH FUCKIN' EMBEDDING

[LuketheXjesse]

No matter how impressive a popular song is, a mainstream idiot won't look at it in a smart way ^~^ Also it's not really just popular music that's destroying society, it's really the fact that everything's being dumbed down. School, Television programs, music, and maybe more I can't think of.

Anyhoo you pretty much spoke my thoughts on mainstream music. Good stuff exists...somewhere. Mainstream (let's just say stupid from here on out) people like pop/rap because it's in fashion. Stupid people listen to the music they listen to because it's fashionable. It's all a fashion sense to them, almost like clothing. We here at OCR listen to all the "weird" stuff we do because we actually have our own minds; we don't do things because they're popular because we have our own real opinions. Why do you think I go on forums? Because I can talk to many people who actually do think for themselves.

Now of course some people DO think for themselves and actually like this stuff. My sister likes Pop music and 80's music (mom's influence >_>) but hates hardcore rap like Li'l Wayne and whatnot. That's just what she likes and at that point I can respect that. It's certainly not what I'm into but at least she has her own opinion.

Anyway that's all I have to say.

[Fishy]

Excellent thread idea, and I can only echo the Flobots song a million times. Epic song. I've got a few random ones.

John Legend - Green Light click the youtube links or they wont work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hd-uklv-5g

I first saw John Legend playing on Jools Holland, and it was just solo piano and vocals. Its always refreshing to see someone playing for themselves in pop. This song is a fairly good example of how smooth and groovy pop can be. It would've been so easy for this song to be about some thing else. How many songs with this kind of sound have you heard with lyrics like these: "you'll be my only true lover no competition no other"? Legend is a step in the right direction.

Usher - Caught Up

Hot damn, this is a perfect example of good pop music imo. Those vocal harmonies are incredible, and this to those phat bass bits. There's even a brass section. I know its not a new song, but this is incredibly musical, the guy is obviously a great singer and mover. This is a direction I like. The production is a bit bland but the actual song is what I like to see in pop.

2pac - Changes

Okay this is definately not new popular music by any means, but this is just great stuff. Just listen to that piano. Musical and with an awesome message. (There's a lovely irony in the line "we ain't ready to see a black president" )

[Meteo Xavier]

Stupid people listen to the music they listen to because it's fashionable. It's all a fashion sense to them, almost like clothing.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to tear this quote apart.

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference? Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying aorund, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

I'm going off here because the whole subject is insane and not many are saying much about it (that I know of). People have been bitching about Modern Pop and the mainstream casual listeners forever. These arguments, infantile as they are, are probably over 100 years old. People were saying this modern music is shit and destroying America since JAZZ, always favoring

the older days since 20-30 years ago - a "Golden Age" of music that didn't actually exist because the same fucking criticisms existed back then.

Now I'm going to dive right off the *** **** deep end and say that if Music is just fashion for those stupid people, then Music is just culture for you guys. Its just a channel for your alternatives to the disgusting and awful and deceitful and pure fucking evil Popular Cultures. Its propaganda for your politics and atheism. Its an experiment to see how far "art" can go on little merit, training or any real credibility. Its an exercise to see how much you can spend on some bitch because she's "not Britney Spears". Its a chance for every miserable outcast 20 miles around to gather, smoke pot, and crawl one-by-one up the collective ass and orgasm over and over again about how much fun it is to be in this awful secret little club that shits in the face of mainstream culture and waves its middle finger with a rebel yell screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!

So when it is EVER about the fucking music?

Hell, until I started coming to Ocremix, I had no idea people my age ever thought about chord structures, or melodies, or production values. People who actually cared about the music for the sake of the music itself, not what genre it is or who listens to it.

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Bottom Line: If you cannot respect a culture, you do not deserve one of your own. End.

(I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever. Post).

[Mustin]

Pretty good rebuttle. Said a lot of what I was going to.

I'm looking forward to replying to this. I'm in a session right now, so when I'm done recording this rap song, I'll jump in this

[cobaltstarfire]

Yeah Meteo Xavier gets a giant QFT from me, I could not have put it so eloquently (and probably not quite as antagonistically either )

People have been saying the developing music of the time is going to destroy society for ages.

I don't really like much American pop, most of what has been posted in this thread doesn't appeal to me at all, but I'm not going to say it's horrible horrible stuff, I might complain about the themes in some of it. I'll complain about those themes regardless of the genre or time period that music was produced in.

I honestly don't pick my music on Genre though, I'll give everything a listen at least halfway through to see if I like it or not.

[The Vagrance]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to tear this quote apart.

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference? Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

While I do agree that someone cannot be called stupid solely on the choice of the music they listen to, they are differences between good music and bad music and there are different ways to judge the quality of music. Chord structure, originality, arrangement, etc. are al up for analysis. Hell, if no one song is better than the other then every submission to OCR should be accepted. Guidelines do exist.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying aorund, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

I disagree with the notion that there are not guidelines to judge music upon, however, I do agree with the statement that not everyone wants to hear "intelligent" music. Some people subscribe to the idea of "If I like it, then I'll buy it" and thats perfectly fine.

I'm going off here because the whole subject is insane and not many are saying much about it (that I know of). People have been bitching about Modern Pop and the mainstream casual listeners forever. These arguments, infantile as they are, are probably over 100 years old. People were saying this modern music is shit and destroying America since JAZZ, always favoring

the older days since 20-30 years ago - a "Golden Age" of music that didn't actually exist because the same fucking criticisms existed back then.

I also agree with this statement. There are people out there that no matter what argument is presented to them, they will refuse to listen and talk about the "good ol' days". That said, if someone is too close-minded to realize that quality music is still being made nowadays that is no less groundbreaking than 20-30 years ago, then thats there problem.

Now I'm going to dive right off the *** **** deep end and say that if Music is just fashion for those stupid people, then Music is just culture for you guys. Its just a channel for your alternatives to the disgusting and awful and deceitful and pure fucking evil Popular Cultures. Its propaganda for your politics and atheism. Its an experiment to see how far "art" can go on little merit, training or any real credibility. Its an exercise to see how much you can spend on some bitch because she's "not Britney Spears". Its a chance for every miserable outcast 20 miles around to gather, smoke pot, and crawl one-by-one up the collective ass and orgasm over and over again about how much fun it is to be in this awful secret little club that shits in the face of mainstream culture and waves its middle finger with a rebel yell screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!

Just because something is one thing to someone doesn't mean that its the same thing for someone else. Do you love your grandmother? Grandfather? Parents? Someone? I'm sure there's someone that you love and care deeply for, and thats nice. Even if I met you in person and we became best friends, I'm sure that said loved one will never mean more to me than to you, and thats perfectly fine. Saying that music is "just culture" is like saying that any artform is "just culture"; that love and pain are "just neural impulses", that video games are "just toys." When it comes to art and feeling, a lot more is subjective. Liking certain types of music isn't about the exclusivity of it, its about enjoying the music. Simple enough.

Hell, until I started coming to Ocremix, I had no idea people my age ever thought about chord structures, or melodies, or production values. People who actually cared about the music for the sake of the music itself, not what genre it is or who listens to it.

You must come from a small town then, or maybe I'm just used to the musical atmosphere of Nashville because quite a few people I know that are my age care about chord structures and production values. Thats how bands are formed.

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Music is whatever one wants it to be, otherwise everything is bleak and miserable. Cooking doesn't matter because it will be digested. Paintings don't matter because they are slabs with random assortments of colour on them. Dancing is just flailing around in a timely matter. If you can't stop to reallze the beauty of different arts, then at least respect those who do.

(I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever. Post).

Thats usually a sign that you shouldn't submit it.

[The Vagrance]

No matter how impressive a popular song is, a mainstream idiot won't look at it in a smart way ^~^ Also it's not really just popular music that's destroying society, it's really the fact that everything's being dumbed down. School, Television programs, music, and maybe more I can't think of.

Dumbing things down is a natural process of various societal objects and functions. The more dumbed down it is, the easier it is to consumed in a half-assed manner. Artsy films scream to be analyzed, beautiful music requires multiple listens to appreciate all of the subtlety, White Chicks points out that white people sometimes act differently than black people.

Anyhoo you pretty much spoke my thoughts on mainstream music. Good stuff exists...somewhere. Mainstream (let's just say stupid from here on out) people like pop/rap because it's in fashion. Stupid people listen to the music they listen to because it's fashionable. It's all a fashion sense to them, almost like clothing. We here at OCR listen to all the "weird" stuff we do because we actually have our own minds; we don't do things because they're popular because we have our own real opinions. Why do you think I go on forums? Because I can talk to many people who actually do think for themselves.

Now of course some people DO think for themselves and actually like this stuff. My sister likes Pop music and 80's music (mom's influence >_>) but hates hardcore rap like Li'l Wayne and whatnot. That's just what she likes and at that point I can respect that. It's certainly not what I'm into but at least she has her own opinion.

Anyway that's all I have to say.

I used to line up perfectly with your views, until I realized something. Some people like mainstream music because:

1. They genuinely like it

2. They don't know about anything better

3. They don't want complexity

4. They don't care nearly as much about music as you (or I)

Some people listen to music as a passive thing, it doesn't really matter to them that much in their lives. Have you ever watched b-boys (breakdancers)? If you don't know much about it, then pretty much anything they do is cool, even though a lot of it may be very basic stuff. Same goes for novels (explains the popularity of the Twilight series), art, cooking, and pretty much any other artform. If it doesn't matter that much in our life, then the shallow stuff probably won't bother you that much.

[cobaltstarfire]

3. They don't want complexity

Complexity isn't always a good thing you know.

Sometimes simplicity will give you the best sounding song.

[kitty]

Counter-point to your counter-point. I believe the original "stupid people" quote was supposed to be a given. He's saying that people who are already stupid happen to listen to mainstream music because it's fashionable. NOT because mainstream music MAKES people stupid.

[Salluz]

He's saying that people who are already stupid happen to listen to mainstream music because it's fashionable. NOT because mainstream music MAKES people stupid.

Thanks.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to tear this quote apart.

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference?

Apparently, he isn't saying that a person is stupid for having a preference, although it is true (in some cases inapplicable to this situation) that someone can have a "stupid preference", but that isn't in regards to music. He is saying that idiots do whatever's cool because it's cool, not because they like it.

Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

He ain't talkin' music, he's talkin' about jumpin' on a bandwagon that demands the person to sacrifice individuality. There's actually a lot of people jumpin' on stuff and not really considering what it is they're doing. Like, it's stupid to meditate (purposeful emphasis) on messages that encourage the listener to do crime, an that's no judgment to the person, but the action. Sometimes it's not what's being chosen as much as it is the purpose, better known as why. It's not up to any man to try and determine what person is stupid, but stupid actions should be identified, judged and discontinued.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying around, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

Why do you bark and take this man's statements out of context?

I'm going off here because the whole subject is insane and not many are saying much about it (that I know of). People have been bitching about Modern Pop and the mainstream casual listeners forever. These arguments, infantile as they are, are probably over 100 years old. People were saying this modern music is shit and destroying America since JAZZ, always favoring

the older days since 20-30 years ago - a "Golden Age" of music that didn't actually exist because the same fucking criticisms existed back then.

True, people have whined about pop forever. I never encourage whining, but when I do hear valid statements about flaws in particular phases (such as a complete lack of depth and talent(b/c not eveything has to be deep), i.e. Soulja Boy), I can agree, although I will not condemn the artist. In fact, I learned to disregard the artist and ask "who the hell signed this person?" The artist isn't the main deal; the companies who guinea pig their listeners are the ones I am completely discontent with. As of now, no point in worrying because the world is what it is and will continue with or without me.

Now I'm going to dive right off the *** **** deep end and say that if Music is just fashion for those stupid people, then Music is just culture for you guys. Its just a channel for your alternatives to the disgusting and awful and deceitful and pure fucking evil Popular Cultures. Its propaganda for your politics and atheism. Its an experiment to see how far "art" can go on little merit, training or any real credibility. Its an exercise to see how much you can spend on some bitch because she's "not Britney Spears". Its a chance for every miserable outcast 20 miles around to gather, smoke pot, and crawl one-by-one up the collective ass and orgasm over and over again about how much fun it is to be in this awful secret little club that shits in the face of mainstream culture and waves its middle finger with a rebel yell screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!

That's just plain crazy.

So when it is EVER about the fucking music?

It's about the music when you're dealing with someone who has a burning desire to express themselves one way or another.

Hell, until I started coming to Ocremix, I had no idea people my age ever thought about chord structures, or melodies, or production values. People who actually cared about the music for the sake of the music itself, not what genre it is or who listens to it.

That's what I have longed for all of my life, even in the "bliss" of ignorance.

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Then you use it to convey whatever it is that you're trying to convey. The same goes with art. There are no deep rules concerning visual art, but it can be upsetting when people sacrifice creativity and start drawing cheap stick figures with "style" slapped on it for profit, guinea-pigging the audience (testing to see how much of a low standard one can get away with), and disregarding real talent with real messages because it's too heavy. If people like what they like one way or another, that's fine, but I hold my decrees to myself concerning standards and music. The song doesn't have to be perfect, but I'm not going to listen to songs of stick-figure quality and pass it off as "art" because I'm scared that someone will accuse me of being close-minded, facist, uptight, old-fashioned or uncool.

Edit: just to say, stick figures can be quite artistic, but what I'm really talking about is the lack of talent and/or needed effort.

Bottom Line: If you cannot respect a culture, you do not deserve one of your own. End. (I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever. Post).

Just remember to respect the person you're talking to (in this case, Luke), and you'll be fine.

[noTuX]

Music is just organized noise. Its not life, its not love, its not fashion, its not culture, its not anything but a series of sonic vibrations that people have overgratified into a religion onto itself. It is NOTHING by itself. It's just music. It's a tool that you bought and are free to use however you want to use it. Same for everyone else too.

Do you just realized what you said? And you couldn't have said it in a better place.

Sure, you got the basic definition of music, but it is so, so much more than that. Music is what the listener defines it as.

If you really think it is just organized noise, then I'm telling you right now, you're missing the entire point of music.

(I'm going to regret submitting this, but whatever.

Then why did you post your comment then?

[JJT]

I'm revealing my disgusting hipster leanings, but I think this is some pretty fantastic pop music:

MGMT - Electric Feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtUI5MC9tVM

[LuketheXjesse]

What the hell makes someone stupid for their choice of preference? Or, alternate phrasing, what the hell makes someone's preference of music stupid? I don't claim to be the most omniscient man around, but I think if there were a set of guidelines that clearly established who was an idiot (or poser or any other derogatory term you guys come up with to pretentiously differentiate yourselves from people who like music you don't) based upon certain names, genres, dates and what the fuck ever, I would've heard about it by now.

Such guidelines do not exist and I'm up to my ass sick of hearing it. Not everyone is a diehard music fan. A lot of people only listen to whatever's on the radio because thats all they really have an enticement to do. If they like it with some extra cash lying aorund, they go out and buy it and enjoy it some more until they have their fill. They are not required to take it any further if there is no enticement to do so. They paid for their music and they can use as a fucking fashion statement, if they want to. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

I didn't say they were stupid for listening to it. I meant they were stupid for letting what's popular dictate what they like. Sheesh And of course not everyone takes music seriously. That's why my sister was mentioned.

Also thank you Salluz.

I used to line up perfectly with your views, until I realized something. Some people like mainstream music because:

1. They genuinely like it

2. They don't know about anything better

3. They don't want complexity

4. They don't care nearly as much about music as you (or I)

Once again, this is why I brought up my sister

Now of course some people DO think for themselves and actually like this stuff. My sister likes Pop music and 80's music (mom's influence >_>) but hates hardcore rap like Li'l Wayne and whatnot. That's just what she likes and at that point I can respect that. It's certainly not what I'm into but at least she has her own opinion.

Are you people looking for a reason to contradict me?

Counter-point to your counter-point. I believe the original "stupid people" quote was supposed to be a given. He's saying that people who are already stupid happen to listen to mainstream music because it's fashionable. NOT because mainstream music MAKES people stupid.

Thank you, too. At least someone here isn't LOOKING for an argument.

[Jaybell]

I wouldn't mind it if our radio station at work played anything other than the SAME TWENTY FUCKING SONGS.

Disturbia and Let it Rock are two of those, and I am sick of them. They're alright, but man, how about NOT PLAYING IT THREE TIMES IN AS MANY HOURS?

One reason I'm glad I wasn't alive during the eighties: I didn't have to hear Michael Jackson get overplayed and overplayed to the point of absurdity, and so I can appreciate his music for what it is.

[Salluz]

Then why did you post your comment then?

He probably felt that it needed to be said.

Those vids, especially the political rock/fast rap and the Maroon 5 song, I liked. I heard some faults here and there, but to be fair, these songs weren't shitty.

Now, THIS is what I'm getting tired of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGIr6cyMdAE

"A milli, a milli, a milli, a milli"... WTF!? Lil' Wayne has MAAAAAAAD mic skills, but he needs to switch DJ's or something. Now, if you like this, as repetitive, predictable, pointless and played-out as it is, that's you, but c'mon!!! How can you sit for three to four minutes with "a milli, a milli, a milli, a milli" in your ear while some arrogant dude who looks like Splinter the Rat raps about how his career is the best? WHO F***ING CARES!? Excuse my terminology, but as a friend in the 'hood once said:

What n**** (in this case, any guy) wants to sit up and listen to another n**** (any male artist) talk about his money, his hoes, his cars, his life, serving no purpose except to boast of that n****'s life and put money in that n****'s pocket?

At that point, it's not just about the sounds coming out of the speakers, but the message that's being conveyed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMm3nhYfU8

WTF signed'd (pronouced "sighn-did) this mu'-fu'!? You don't need to be a rap fan to know how WACK this dude is. He can't talk, looks like an illiterate, alcoholic thug, sitting there trying to rap about trappin' after wastin' a L-L-LOOOOOOOT of money on that stupid Bart Simpson charm. He probably had to produce a lot of mixtapes to make up for the loss he faced from buying that shining POS that deBeers (or whomever) forced out of their anuses. "Pussy a** n****!" Is that all you can say?

...and then these beefs... Can't we all just get along? We shoulda' learned from Tupac and Biggy, or even 50 Cent and Ja' Rule. Nope, we just keep beefin'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD8tJvvCiv8

...ah, more guinea-pigging... repeated bonus question: WHO F***ING CARES!? Y'ain't hot because you say nuthin' on da track; you's hot 'cuz you's fresh out of a bull's intestines 'n later got preserved in a warmer for two days. Now, we see yo' ghetto fab industry E-Z-Bake oven instrumental-loopin' a** on TV wit' a bunch o' big-booty chicks to hide yo' lack o' concepts & skeeeeeellz (skills).

I bet that if you go up to one of these dudes and give them your opinion (and it doesn't line up with theirs), if they don't try to throw a swing at you, they'll probably shine their silver/golden/platinum teeth at you and say, "uUuUuuhHHhh, nigga u hatin. U'z a haTUr. Pussy a** n****".

[/Darkesworde]

This crap is aimed to the ghetto, so people buy into it because it's "hood" or "tough", when it's really stupid. All jokes aside, I feel sorry for the societies who enjoy this crap.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

There are genuinely people (mostly girls between the ages of 9 and 15) who genuinely like bland, generic, written-to-a-formula pop.

But I think a lot of people have never heard anything better. If your general frame of reference consists of Miley Cyrus for "rock" and 50 cent for "hip-hop," then yes, Nickelback and Kanye West look like fucking geniuses.

As an experiment, I've tried introducing OCR tunes to a number of my students, and I find that very frequently their reaction depends on who's around. When I have one girl over by the stereo and the rest are over at the bars on the other side of the gym, they'll say some of these mixes are the coolest music they've ever heard -- I have a number of girls doing floor routines to remixes this season.

But if I play the same tune for them when all their friends are around, they'll say they don't like it and ask me to put on some Jonas Brothers or Coldplay or some other shit like that.

To me, this demonstrates that, at least for some people, it genuinely isn't about the music at all -- it's about listening to something their friends think is cool. And the funny thing is they don't even realize they're doing this most of the time. It's subconcious, reflexive even.

I'd say my biggest objection to contemporary pop (especially hip-hop) is that it usually has about two seconds of actual music written for the whole song. Where a (forgive my elitism) realcomposer might come up with a short riff and think "this is a good start, I could develop this into a full song," a typical pop producer would say "I'm done. Loop it for five minutes and we'll call it a song."

[Salluz]

I'd say my biggest objection to contemporary pop (especially hip-hop) is that it usually has about two seconds of actual music written for the whole song. Where a (forgive my elitism) real composer might come up with a short riff and think "this is a good start, I could develop this into a full song," a typical pop producer would say "I'm done. Loop it for five minutes and we'll call it a song."

HAHA! That's really the substance of most of the stuff we hear today: SimSynths from FruityLoops, bad lyrics and some 808s.

Also thank you Salluz.

Noooo problem.

[zircon]

Yep, most modern hip hop is just awful. No two ways about it.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Yep, most modern hip hop is just awful. No two ways about it.

I'm not sure, but I'm assuming you're being sarcastic here.

There is such a thing as good hip-hop. I've heard plenty of it. There's a local jazz/blues/hip-hop station that plays some seriously sweet stuff.

You just never hear that sort of hip-hop on hit music stations.

[cobaltstarfire]

I must have lucked out with my friends and family, just about all of them are musicians full time, or as a little side thing for college, so I've never been exposed to people that say different things about music depending on who's around. To them, if they like it, they like it regardless of where it came from, if they don't like they'll tell you about how much they hate it and wish it would go away so they wouldn't have to hear it.

Well ok, one of them thinks it's "creepy" whenever she finds out some of my music she previously liked was from a video game, I don't really know what is so creepy about that but whatever, she listens to mostly alternative or extremely "weird" stuff like digeridoo, so I'm not sure how she grades music.

[noTuX]

You just never hear that sort of hip-hop on hit music stations.

It never hits music stations because alot of music stations are scared of losing ratings.

"Bitches, hoes, killing niggas, and slapping random people + a good beat" is what sales. That is what most people want to listen to, so they cater to "most people."

Alot of rappers and hip hop artists do make songs that are meaningful and carry a positive message, but they won't play those tracks.

To sum it all up, music has been converted from an art form, to a business. Thats why its not what it use to be.

[Salluz]

To sum it all up, music has been converted from an art form, to a business. Thats why its not what it use to be.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

Anybody like Lupe Fiasco? I like his stuff (actually has a subject), although some of his songs seem to be... lame? Not that good? (IMO)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf-EuQ5fRIM

^He's not much on singing, but the song is one of my faves from him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OboCSvVN2tI

^I didn't really care for the music (it's okay IMO, although the beat knocks), but I like how he uses the hood beat and puts real thought into his lyrics. The subject involves people trying to pressure him because of what kind of rapper he is.

^One of his older songs, lol. I'm assuming that he's supposed to be experimental/abstract/avant-garde(-ish).

^I was a little annoyed by the chorus (not that he was saying "n****", but that it was repeated a little too long for my liking), but I loved the lyrics. Just food for thought, I think there was a point that he was trying to make when he was redundantly saying "The coolest n****, what!" The music is deep, the beat has that old-school-ish swag, nothing is repeated too often (besides "The coolest n****, what!")... you get it.

I like how Lupe's himself in whatever he does. That isn't to say that the hood dudes aren't themselves, but few of the more thuggish rappers rap artistically unless it's the art of bragging. For instance, as unusual as it sounds, T.I., who's supposed to be so hood, actually has something to say in some of his music.

[LuketheXjesse]

There are genuinely people (mostly girls between the ages of 9 and 15) who genuinely like bland, generic, written-to-a-formula pop.

My sister.

But if I play the same tune for them when all their friends are around, they'll say they don't like it and ask me to put on some Jonas Brothers or Coldplay or some other shit like that

That's something else I forgot. A lot of people stick to the mainstream because they're scared of losing social acceptance. But you shouldn't really have to as long as you're upbeat and confident about what you like (i.e. me). I work with a lot of mainstream people and they're all cool, but if they bring up music at all I'll straight up tell them about Dream Theater or another progressive band. Maybe even video game music.

There is such a thing as good hip-hop. I've heard plenty of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t41oSMD6vc

Not anything amazing, just pretty catchy

Well ok, one of them thinks it's "creepy" whenever she finds out some of my music she previously liked was from a video game, I don't really know what is so creepy about that but whatever, she listens to mostly alternative or extremely "weird" stuff like digeridoo, so I'm not sure how she grades music.

Closed-minded >_>

[Bleck]

either all music is good in it's own way or all music is bad

to each his own, I say