*NO* Final Fantasy 4 'Goodbye Cid...'

[Liontamer]

ReMixer Names: Wiesty, audio fidelity, OA

Real Names: Dylan Wiest, Jay Yaskin, Andrew Luers

Email Addresses: dwiest@hotmail.com, Bass10854@hotmail.com, andrewluers@gmail.com

User ID: 11643, 24748, 14963

Game Arranged: Final Fantasy IV

Name of Song Arranged: Hey Cid!

Comments: The concept for the remix started from the idea to change the name of the song to Goodbye Cid. I thought that the title would kind of maybe have a sad sound to it so i arranged the main part of the song with minor chords and solo guitars. From there I decided to add drums and a bass line. The whole "sad" sound to the mix was mainly diminished but what came out of it was a much tastier jam. For the second part of the song i really wanted to change things up and give it a whole new sound, kind of a "B" side idea. The fast acoustic strumming riffs inspired by various rock ballads and what not, but the melody was left open for a solo. I myself wanted a tastey guitar solo, so i called in Jay to do some work on the guitar. He wrote the guitar solo, recorded all the guitar & bass, and did some final mixdown work. He also brought up the idea to trade riffs on the solo, and we decided to make it into a guitar and organ solo. Towards the end of the mix Andrew was called in to record some acoustic guitar. Overall this was a really fun collaboration and alot of great ideas were generated to provide a really unique play on the source.

*This is a track for the up and coming FFIV: Echoes of Betrayal, Light of Redemption album and, if accepted, must be kept private until album release.

**The song was given a quick mastering in this version but will be fully mastered prior to project release.

EDIT (4/2): Received a breakdown from Jay

0:00 - 0:26: clean guitar lead plays a section melody

0:26 - 0:50: clean bluesy guitar solo developed out of a section melody figures

0:50 - 1:14: synth lead plays a section with liberal variation

1:14 - 1:40: synth lead plays b section melody

1:40 - 2:02: band grooving on cid progression variation (rhythm inspired guess who's "no sugar tonight")

2:02 - 2:50: guitar and organ trading solos over groove

2:50 - 3:14: dist wah guitar lead plays a section melody

3:14 - 3:50: dist wah guitar lead plays b section melody

3:50 - 4:16: clean guitar lead plays a section melody to take song out

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Easily my favorite source from FF4, and one that gave my non-musician self a ReMix idea a couple years ago.

http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=ff4 - "Hey, Cid!" (ff4-24.spc)

Source usage I'm picking up on: :01-:09, :17-:23, 1:13.5-1:32, 1:55-2:00, 2:48-2:57, 3:04-3:31, 3:35-3:53, 4:05-4:09

Uh, yeah. 2:01-2:25 was original writing following the basic progression of the original, with 2:25-2:47 loosely going into the chorus before the more overt chorus showed up at 2:47. I'm definitely not counting any of that.

This is put together well, no doubt about that, but this is still way too liberal from my view and goes too far off the path of the source. I'll reserve final judgement for a source breakdown from the artists, but "Hey, Cid!" is a very straightforward, 32-second-long theme, and I'm not hearing it enough here at all.

[Palpable]

Arrangement is really nice, lots of variety for four minutes. I thought the 1:15-1:30 section of the synth solo was a little unmelodic, but otherwise, it was very consistent. Great soloing, especially the badass section where the guitar and organ play off each other. Though by a strict breakdown it's probably around 40-45% pulled from the original, I still felt this one was connected enough. Even when the source wasn't being used explicitly, the rhythms of the melodies sometimes suggested the original, i.e., it felt more connected than the breakdown suggested. In addition, the modified chord progression of the original is used for most of this and helps tie it together.

Production was good, though I thought the organ was distorted to the point where it didn't quite sound like an organ to me. Very minor. Keeping rockin' out guys.

YES

[anosou]

Seems like a bad idea to submit a "quick mastering" when you know you're going to fix it later. Shame on you all!

Anyway, I must say I'm with Larry here. Hey, Cid! is a theme that's very easy to spot (and incorporate, you guys easily could've added more obvious ties to the theme in the solos!) and I'm not hearing enough. It was a good arrangement ideas and the transition to minor is well done but you're putting too much focus on your own original ideas. Also, I thought the solos (keyboard especially) was at times a bit out of key to the point wher it wasn't cool but annoying and could've been a bit tighter. The distorted organ was a nice touch but was a bit too distorted and sounded more like clipping and a marshall metal amp.

The arrangement and production was good overall though. However I don't feel comfortable passing something that doesn't have enough source usage AND suffers from the other issues I mentioned, sorry.

NO(resubmit)

[DarkeSword]

Seems like a bad idea to submit a "quick mastering" when you know you're going to fix it later. Shame on you all!

Seriously! Submit the actual finished version! >:\

Anyhow; I think this is pretty cool, but I'm siding with Anso and Larry; there's a lot of original material here, and while the soloing and stuff is good, there really could be more overt source usage.

As for production, I feel like your guitars, synth, and organ are all too loud compared to everything else; it feels a little unbalanced.

NO~ but resub

[CHz]

I was listening to this rather loud, and that synth starting at 0:49 is kind of piercing, my ears are hurting a bit now. It's mainly the held notes, 1:15-1:18 for example is just the same tone at the same intensity for three seconds and ow. No one else mentioned this so maybe it's just me. Drop it further back, add some vibrato or decay, change the synth to something less harsh, etc.

Production is pretty good aside from that niggle. I feel DS saying the guitars and organ could stand to be softer, but I'm fine with how they are. The take on the source is great, but I'm not hearing enough "Hey, Cid!" to give it a pass.

NO (resubmit)

[zircon]

Let me start with the production end because that's easier. I'm not at my home listening setup at the moment, but I think the mixing/mastering here is solid enough for our bar overall. I agree that the sustained synth is a little grating, but not because it has a bad frequency balance, but merely because it just has a loud sustain. Bring down the sus level on it and have a smooth decay curve. Additionally, it's pretty boring when it sustains like that - some sort of articulation like vibrato would really help. The first solo it plays also seems kind of out of place, in terms of the notes (some sour ones IMO). The dirty organ might be a little too loud, as well as the electric guitar. They drown out the drums! On the other hand, the rhythm guitar and bass sounded good, as did the drum tone.

The transition towards the end from the loud to the soft section sounded kinda off, again, some sour notes imo. I could hear what you were going for but it just didn't sit well with me. Otherwise, the flow of the arrangement was quite good. It's the interpretation that is primarily the issue with the writing end here. I didn't feel that there was enough of the source. I could hear it clearly when it was around, but much like that Prince of Darkness "Cyan" mix from FF6, too much of the NEW writing here just has nothing to do with the the source. It feels more like the source is just referenced occasionally, rather than being the foundation of the mix.

Even if the interpretation was sufficient from a source usage standpoint, I think that there are enough minor issues to prevent this one from getting a YES anyway.

NO

[Liontamer]

Jay provided a breakdown, added to the first post. Please check whether your vote would change given this new information, and of course new voters are welcome.

[anosou]

I'm sticking with the NO. Even if the breakdown would put it over 80% I can't for the life of me say that the source is identifiable and dominant. Some passages are liberal beyond recognition (0:50-1:14), some are only the source progression (and the source progression is just two chords.. it's the voicing/playing that makes them unique) and 0:26-0:50 doesn't have enough melodic connections during the solo

Still a no go.

[big giant circles]

Ugh, I can't believe I'm doing this, for all my recent talk about lowering the dang bar and not counting seconds.

I am truly sorry fellas, I like all three of you (except OA, because he's now a shtyjdgfgt, and must therefore be appropriately loathed), but this is probably a so-rare-it's-bleeding case of something that while it may *technically* be >50%, it's as Anso said, just simply not dominant at ALL. No hate intended, but I really felt like the only truly obvious arrangement was the wah guitar from 2:50-3:50. I hope that doesn't insult any of you, it is certainly not my intent. And it's not like I can't hear any other references to the source at all, but even with my newfound easy-goingness and personally lowered-bar standard regarding voting, it just feels too much like it's an original song that throws a Cid cameo in it.

I really do hate throw the thumbs down on it here, it's an awesome track otherwise, the production sounds clean, and the guitar performances are spot on, and the track as a whole is a great track.

To clarify, and despite what it looks like, I'm not counting seconds here, I'm just timestamping to clarify my references.

From :30 - 1:15, it's just way too liberal. Neither the backing nor melody is distinctly recognizable as Cid's theme. The first 30 seconds, sure, and the synth from 1:15 - 1:37 or so, although (I realize while it was intentionally written that way) that melody doesn't play nice with the backing progression. I refuse to break out the over-complicated music theory here, but whatever mode that's written in only adds more harshness the tone than sadness. Then, the jam out segment, which begins around 1:37 and ends when the wah guitar comes in, is mostly original, but not even the backing chords can really be said to be a clear reference because you changed it from a 4-5 to a 6-5. Don't get me wrong, I thought the organ and guitar were rad.

Anyway, I understand the frustration with the NO vote - my fellow fgts have said more or less the same thing about my SMB track, but sometimes the melody just needs to be more obvious, I suppose. Again, I'm not demanding 50/50, but again, reitterating Anso, this just isn't obvious or Dominant.

I will say though, that I think this is a great track and am glad that everyone will at least get to hear it EoBLoR is released.

[OceansAndrew]

I'm going to help put this one down; it was submitted 9 months ago, and has been on the panel for 7, and it's pretty clear of what the verdict will be- at least eventually.

Dylan-

Great work on this one, i'm really proud of your artistic growth over the course of this track, and i'm legitimately impressed (and a little envious) by your keyboard solo skills. I never knew you had it in you. I'm sorry this one wasn't your OCR debut, but I can tell that it won't be long before you are on the front page.

Jay-

Thanks for jumping in and adding a ton to this, it may not be a good fit for OCR, but it is definitely a good fit for the project.

no

[Palpable]

And let me apologize for singlehandedly holding this up with my lone YES vote, though I don't regret the vote as much as the system we have. We've now started e-mailing some people when votes get split. I did listen to it again a couple weeks ago just to see if I would switch my vote but I still felt it was a YES.