Silent Hill Discussion

[StarZander]

I liked that poem. It could very easily have been cheesy, but you succeeded in avoiding that. I liked the intro/outro best though. Shame you ripped those

And I believe she is singing "Colleen" and not "Carly" in that song. I've listened to it many many times, in very good speakers I might add, so I'm pretty sure of it.

[StarZander]

Best cosplayer I've ever seen:

[Illaminus]

A little on the psychological aspect of Silent hill 2...

Thanks for sharing that Dr.Eccles earlier on, I just read it and I found that to be a very interesting read.

If you've got more stuff/thoughts around like that, please share more.

[Eccles]

A little on the psychological aspect of Silent hill 2...

Thanks for sharing that Dr.Eccles earlier on, I just read it and I found that to be a very interesting read.

If you've got more stuff/thoughts around like that, please share more.

I will do when I've gotten enough to constitute a good post.

I liked that poem. It could very easily have been cheesy, but you succeeded in avoiding that. I liked the intro/outro best though. Shame you ripped those

Yeah. Well it was a good verse, so I had to use it.

The rest is all original though. Came up with it one lunchtime at work

And I believe she is singing "Colleen" and not "Carly" in that song. I've listened to it many many times, in very good speakers I might add, so I'm pretty sure of it.

Yeah, well my speakers suck-ass. So I'll change the diary to read Colleen, rather than Carly.

[Eccles]

I am very *VERY* pissed off. I had typed up a nice big long synopsis of the plot of SH1 but the window crashed as I hit submit. It didn't even register that I'd copied the text to the clipboard >.<

So here we go again. Synopsis of the plot of SH1 and SH3 assuming you get the good+ ending in SH1 (which the game wants you to do, and which SH3 assumes you do).

As if it needs saying...

ZOMG SPOILARS ABOUT SILENT HILL OEN AND TREE!!!1"

Seven years before Silent Hill 1:

Harold (harry) Mason and his wife are on holiday in Silent Hill.

The hope house cult (those who worship Samael) burn down the house of their leader (Dahlia Gillespie) with the intention of killing Dahlias daughter Alessa so that they can resurrect her with Samaels soul inside of her, feeling that if they give Samael a new body she will give them all they desire.

The sacrifice, however, doesnt go as planned and Alessa ends up only losing half of her soul.

Half of Alessas soul escapes her body and manifests itself into the form of a small baby, which Harry and his wife find as theyre leaving Silent Hill. They adopt the child and name her Cheryl.

Half of Alessas soul stays in her body and slowly grows in power while she plots her revenge on the cult who tried to kill her.

Alessas body was put into one of the hospitals (I'm guessing Alchemilla, since this is more of a hospital, whereas brookhaven is a psychiatric institute) and she was tended to by Lisa Garland. While in hospital she sympathised with another terminally ill patient, Mary Shepherd-Sunderland and grew angry at her husband James for being such a cold man...losing her temper when he killed Mary, dragging James back to Silent hill so she can torture him some (but now I'm straying. Back to the story)

The days leading up to Silent hill 1:

Harrys wife has died and Harry himself works as a freelance journalist.

Dahlia has enlisted the help of a Doctor/Drug dealer (Kaufmann).

Lisa probably died. While there's nothing concrete in the game to prove this, it's the most likely situation given how she is portrayed in relation to the rest of the game.

Harry decides it is time for the annual holiday that he and Cheryl take: deciding (on account of Cheryls request) to go to Silent hill again. While driving there, Harry sees a vision of Alessa stepping out in front of his jeep, which causes him to try and turn the jeep, sliding it down a hill and into Silent Hill (We know he spun the jeep out of control from the opening video and we know it slid down an incline owing to the position its in when the game starts. Harry was driving next to crash barriers and whent he game begins the jeep is nose down in the road with its back wheels up in the air).

When Harry arrives in Silent hill, Cheryl ceases to exist as an entity on her own and becomes part of Alessa. Harry sees a vision of her and gives chase, however he finds himself backed into a corner and killed.

Alessa realises what she's done and brings him back to life (some people say so she can torture him more, but I choose to see it as an apology and a cry for help) and Harry ends up inside the cafe (Cybil most likely took him there, since she is not at all surprised to see him) and in the cafe he meets Cybil Bennet, a police officer from Brahms, a town near Silent Hill (Supposedly to the east, since Portland is north, Paleville is west and the lake is to the south). She tells Harry she'll go looking for help, gives him protection from the monsters and leaves.

Harry then goes through hell trying to find his Daughter...all the while helped along by Alessa who puts items and the like around town to give him support.

As Harry gets closer to alessa, the monsters he encounters become bigger, stronger and more grotesque...this signifies to the player two things

1) Alessa is getting more powerful

2) Youre getting closer to the source of the monsters.

In the end, you wake up in Nowhere...an ironic title since the level consists of pieces from everywhere in the game; the school, the hospital, the churches and so on...and after fighting your way through it, you find yourself confronting Dahlia Gillespie. She tells you that youve been seeing Cheryl all along...and before you can get a proper explanation from her, she's gunned down and Kaufmann turns up, angry at being used (Quite how he was used he doesnt say, however Im willing to put a small sum of money on the fact that it's to do with his drugs and such being used in the resurrecting of Samael) and throws a vial of red liquid (Aglaophotis) at the angel-like figure standing in the middle of the room...who then collapses and turns into Samael.

After Harry manages to gun down Samael, Alessa once again appears. She stops time briefly and hands Harry a baby...which he then takes and runs, Cybil in tow. Lisa, previously thought to be dead, turns up and assaults Kaufmann (for reasons I discussed earlier. If anyone wants a recap I can give one), leaving Harry and Cybil free to go...the two simply run as fast as they can into the fog of the town and don't stop...eventually Harry finds himself alone in the dark again...only now he is holding a baby, which he adopts and names Heather.

Seventeen years after SH1:

Fearing he would be hunted down and asked about what he did in Silent Hill, Harold Mason (then 49) had changed his name to Harold Morris (though he still lived by the name Harry) and was living in Portland.

Dahlias sister Claudia tried to do what her sister couldnt (IE: Bring Samael to life and unleash hell upon the world) and so hired PI Douglas Cartland to find Heather, which he manages to do. When she has a positive address for Heather, Claudia hires the missionary to kill Harry...partly as revenge for 'kidnapping' Heather and partly to make Heather angry so Samael will be born quicker and will be more powerful when she was.

Douglas realises that he picked the wrong side to be on when Heather first unleashes her powers and sends the mall to hell. After the missionary does his job and is killed by Heather, Douglas switches sides and offers to help Heather all he can...though this simply means driving her to Silent Hill (Since he does nothing useful during the rest of the game).

Before coming to Silent Hill, however, she meets a man named Vincent who knows all about her and her past. Later, Heather learns that Vincent was working with Claudia (or rather, Claudia was working under Vincent) and the two had been sharing knowledge on Heather.

(Although vincent protests "You mean Claudia? Please! Don’t lump me together with her", the game later reveals this to mean they simply do not share the same views on God and what she does as well as the power of money, since Vincent is the father at Claudias church).

While in Silent Hill, Heather is contacted by Leonard Wolf, Claudias father...who tells Heather that Claudia must be stopped before she can bring the false paradise to the world...however he soon changes his tune when Heather doesnt play his way and so attacks her (or sets a monster on her. One or the other, I'm leaning towards the second, since I dont buy into the 'monsters are people' schtick).

Heather learns about her past, coming to the conclusion that she is, in fact, Alessa Gillespie...and thus Cheryl Mason (while she doesn't especially care about this fact, it is something worth noting).

Heather continues through Silent hill...going to the amusement park and finding out more about her fathers journey...eventually ending up in Hope House...a bizarre church that, like the first game, comprises parts of previous areas in the game.

In the end she finds Vincent and Claudia arguing about who and what God is as well as what she should do. Claudia kills Vincent for betraying the principles of God and begins to summon Samael out of Heather. Heather, however, recovers (giving one of the funniest lines from the game "Shut yer stinkin' mouth, BITCH") and takes a pill of solidified Aglaophotis (that Harry had had made for her after his second trip to Silent Hill...the one when he found her), causing her to vomit up God's foetus, which Claudia then devours, saying she will give birth to God if Heather wont.

Heather then finds Claudia has vanished and been replaced with a grotesque demonised version of Alessa. After killing this God, Heather leaves the chruch and goes back to Douglas who is waiting for her...after joking a little, the two recap that Heather Morris is, in fact, Cheryl Mason.

What happens from here we dont know...the game doesnt tell us, though it does hint that Heather went to live with Douglas.

[/spoilers]

Stuff from SH3 that refers to other things:

There are posters about the mall that feature the girl from Les Miserables

There're posters about the mall advertising "Tirn aill" and "The revolt of Tirn Aill". TA is an old MUORPG and The revolt of tirn aill is a webcomic.

There's a poster for SH2 up in the mall (near to the phones, if I recall correctly)...its the one of Angela that they put up in video game stores when they were about to release SH2.

Obviously the toilet joke in SH3 is a reference to the wallet from SH2.

Borley haunted mansion is a reference to Borley Rectory, the most haunted house in England (in fact, the poster for the house has a picture of the rectory on it: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=12

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=10

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=11

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=14

There's a remix of 'mad world' in there. In the next to last cutscene (the big long one when Claudia and Vincent argue, then Heather turns up) a quiet piano version of the Gary Jules track 'Mad world' (Yes, I know tears for fears did it...but Jules' version is better, so nyah)

http://tkey.net/midi/madworld/jules_mad_world.mid <--There's the original. That piano riff plays in the background of the video

Also, I worked something out. For the longest time the puzzle in SH3 confused me...

14 + 7 + 17 = 38

I got the 7 and the 17 (Cheryl and Heathers ages added together) but I couldnt get 14...until just now. It's how old Alessa was when Harry killed her the first time round.

And now, as my fingers are falling off...I hit the submit button, pray to Zanzidorf, the great many eyed squirrel of the four winds and go for a cup of tea.

[Jeffward]

Silent Hill 1 is probably THE scariest game I have ever played. (although, I haven't played the other two yet, so I don't know.) I first played it when I was 7 or 8, man, scared the shit right outta me. I couldn't sleep for weeks! I HATED the hospitol, and all of the doctors and nurses walking around with huge boils on their backs and such. And that part in the beginning when you get killed by zombies when your in that dream.... ' shudders ' I really need to pick that game back up to see if it still has the same chill factor.

[Tranquil Chaos]

according to the book of lost memories, silent hill 2 takes place 2 years before sh3... which puts it 15 years after sh1.

your synopsis is cool, but your timeline is off.

*Edit* Upon further inspection, more of your info is incorrect... I hate to nitpick and Im not going into all of it, but you should definitely try to find some book of lost memories translations. They contradict several of your key facts.

[StarZander]

The Lost Memories book is cool, all in all, but it ruins everything for people like us, who love to theorize about these games, since now the SH team have made theory into fact. They just took the fun out of it, but I'll just be stubborn and claim that they're WRONG, and that I'm right. Yeah, that's what I'll do. Yeah...

[Ventrex]

The Lost Memories book is cool, all in all, but it ruins everything for people like us, who love to theorize about these games, since now the SH team have made theory into fact. They just took the fun out of it, but I'll just be stubborn and claim that they're WRONG, and that I'm right. Yeah, that's what I'll do. Yeah...

Thank you for being the one person in the world who agrees with me on this. But Lost Memories is not too bad; a lot of the information it presents it more of a, "Oh, the sewer monsters are based on bad sushi Toyama had on his vacation to Canada in 1967," brand of useless fact. Still, it does get into depth sometimes, and I really don't like the idea of releasing something that basically amounts to, "SILENT HILL: THE EXPLANATION."

[Tranquil Chaos]

Some of the info is extremely useful, though. I like interpretations, but some of the theories Ive heard are just retarded. The lost memories book helps eliminate that brand of wild speculation.

[StarZander]

Some of the info is extremely useful, though. I like interpretations, but some of the theories Ive heard are just retarded. The lost memories book helps eliminate that brand of wild speculation.

I tend to like wild speculation, as long as it's still reasonable. But yes, many theories lack a good foundation, but I haven't heard any REALLY ridiculous theories though. Could you give me an example of these retarded ones?

[Tranquil Chaos]

I frequent a silent hill forum... Some of the theories that fly around over there are just silly.

The site is down right now, but I'll link it when it gets up and running.

[StarZander]

Aah, well I guess having an entire forum about Silent Hill, will generate a few spam threads about it, but having only a single thread in a gaming forum, is different. Then only the more serious SH gamers come out to play, and write theories.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Heh, I bet the tangent theories are there because people would be bored if only one group of theories are right, and others aren't.

There's still many ways to look at the story of the Silent Hill franchise despite what the developers of the game says. It's a type of series that different individuals can see different things about it.

I've yet to hear of anything about Silent Hill that would explain the way the turn seemingly transforms. That and the headaches all the main characters get. It could even be a hallucinatory, mental thing instead of those monsters actually existing.

[ifirit]

So much to discuss, so little time. Where do I begin? Well, first I have to give my appreciation and admiration to Eccles for his short, Silent Hill fan fiction on the fairytale of the "Executioner," as well as his discussions to the topic of Silent Hill. The report was very well-worded and used the same style of writing as the series. (Thought, it's surprising how many grammar errors were in that post. Remember to include articles before nouns and to add apostrophes on contractions. But, I digress.)

A little on the psychological aspect of Silent hill 2

I really enjoyed your post on the balance between the Thantos and Eros with respect to James' state of mind. It draws on very basic emotions and desires of people, so I'd like to explore it more once I've had time to contemplate the resulting consequences to James' actions.

ifirit -- They also have the same (if not similar) deal at GameStop.com ... do you know if the actual stores (EBgames and GameStop, of course) are having the same Bonus deal, if you pre-order at the actual store location, or is it only available through their websites?

It might be a little late, but better than never; anyway, the EBGames offer is good for both pre-orders placed on the website and pre-orders made to the store directly. The downside to pre-ordering the game at the store is that supplies of the Silent Hill 4 OST are limited in each store. And, only a select number of stores are participating in the offer. Also, if you pre-order from the store, you have to pick it up quickly as the in-store offer is on a first-come-first-serve basis. The best thing to do is to call the store and ask if they are participating in the offer, ask whether or not they have supplies available, check to see if the are any copies left, and to get to the store early.

But, to save me more time and money in the long run, I went ahead and pre-ordered off the website and will have the game sent to my house. Mailing orders will recieve the soundtrack based on the numerical order those pre-orders were recieved. Hopefully, I ordered in time to get a soundtrack.

The soundtracks to be released along with the game. Is that for US release only?

As far as I can tell, these offers are available to pre-orders placed in the US from EBGames or GameStop. Konami has officially released that a North American or European bundle (game and soundtrack) will not be released. So, the most assured way to get both the game and soundtrack together is to order the Japanese bundle and have it shipped to you, assuming you have a Japanese X-box, PS2, or a mod-chip. Actually, according to Japanese gamers, Silent Hill 4: The Room (Japanese release) already has a japanese and english translation available; which bothers me as to the need to wait so long between the Japanese and North American releases.

The funny thing is, I don't find nurses to be very attractive at all. Nor the curvy legs. It'd be funny if that has anything to do with me thinking that SH2 was one of the least scary SH games I've played.

And they really thought PH's big head is scary? Maybe it would've worked if it was bleeding or something.

But goddam. SH4 seems to have taken the big-headed thing a bit far. That one screenshot of the giganto-woman-head.

That actually freaks me out.

MARK YOUR SH4 SPOILERS!!!

Seriously, most people don't want to have any images spoiled for them in the new game. Try to post a link that contains the picture or the reference page for the image in the future, please. Nothing is worse than mistakingly seeing something you shouldn't have seen. In turn, I will try to better mark my SH1, SH2 and SH3 spoilers.

The credits songtitle is "Angels Thanatos". What would this mean then?

This would mean something along the lines of "Angels deathwish"

If I recall correctly this one comes after the water ending...though I dunno, so I wont speculate as to the meaning until I know for sure.

The titles of the tracks mean quite a lot...especially in SH2.

'Magdalene', for instance, is the music that plays when you find Maria dead in the jail cell. The title almost certainly refers to Mary Magdalene; a prostitute from the bible who was the woman who found Jesus had come back to life (or at least that his tomb was empty)...only rather finding that someone lives again you're finding that someone had died again. again. again.

The reverse will...the track that plays when James goes nuts and tries to resurrect Mary (rebirth ending, for the 2 people in the world who havent gotten there yet)...obviously this is referring to the fact that it was someone/somethings (God, fate, chance, science, whatever you wish) will for Mary to die and James is reversing this.

True: the music that plays when you find out why you're in Silent Hill (I gots to say, I love the way they had mary talking to you over the radio at this point...that was classic)

You could say the same about SH1:

Not tomorrow (1 and 2) play when youre talking to lisa (1 plays when she does her 'I get it now' bit and version 2 plays when she starts bleeding)

My heaven is the music that plays when you fight Samael/the godess, She (or 'house of the rising sun' as Stan calls it)

Killing time...now this can be taken in one of two ways. Killing Time as in 'to waste time'...or Killing time as in 'time to kill things'; I'm leaning towards the latter, since it's the music that plays when you get the bad ending (having killed Cybil and Alessa and having let Dhalia and Kaufmann die).

We seem to have spoken on this subject several times, but I do agree with you, DDE. The soundtrack titles have had apparent alternate meanings when put in relation to the story of the Silent Hill series. These are most obvious whenever Akira Yamaoka has been a lead or assistant producer on a game. It took me a while to understand that the producer for a project is the person who gets to decide what the subject, and the resulting storyline, will be for a game. So, the more closely Yamaoka-san works with the producers, the greater the impact on the music titles and lyrics.

It's funny that you mention that the theme to the "What do I want?" dialogue is a remix of "Mad World" by Gary Jules since it's also a rearrangement of "Breeze-In Monochrome Night" found earlier in the soundtrack (after Split Head Battle/speaking with Douglas at Mall). I wouldn't want to say that Akira Yamaoka used another person's work as his own, but it could have been intentional; I don't know. Still, that would be a good piece to remix for OCR.

The Lost Memories book is cool, all in all, but it ruins everything for people like us, who love to theorize about these games, since now the SH team have made theory into fact. They just took the fun out of it, but I'll just be stubborn and claim that they're WRONG, and that I'm right. Yeah, that's what I'll do. Yeah...

In all respects, I can be a harsh purist when it comes to the interpretations of the Silent Hill series, but I've also realized that a big part of the appeal of the games is the interpretations that people can come up with. I enjoy debates and discussions about what a certain action (or inaction) signifies to other people. However, many times the information can get distorted (such as Eccles' case of Alessa and Mary.) In cases like this, it is good to have a reference to help clarify discussions or arguments. However, I don't think that the "Lost Memories" is the book to do so.

Personally, I find the "Lost Memories" to very vague, highly subjective (depending on how you interpret the language), and at times, contradictive. The book doesn't even attempt to explain what the endings of Silent Hill 3 mean, excluding the Revenge ("UFO") Ending. Even if a purist, such as myself, tried to take the text in the "Lost Memories" as literal and definitive, I would be quickly drawn into a corner because so much detail is left unexplained. In the end, it is up to the player to decide what is true meaning of the game. Like life, there are no definite answers.

Well, I guess all that is left to discuss is...

SH Rumor Control:

As mentioned before, rumors have been flying around about the next title in the Silent Hill Series: SH5. The current working title for this game will be "Shadows of the Past."

The game, like SH2, will not be directly linked to the main storyline created in SH1 & SH3. Instead, it will focus more on the background of the town. The game will also utilize a series of flashbacks where the player will travel to other places from your memory. (Sounds interesting.)

As far as storyline goes, the protagonist is apparently a mental patient kept in a mental institution. The doctors are trying to get to the center of the protagonist's trama and delusions, which occurred in Silent Hill. Through their sessions, the patient (i.e. the player) will travel back to their memories and try to discover the source of your mental illness. (Sounds very interesting.)

According to a source at Konami, this will be the last game released for the current generations of consoles. So, that means that the likely release of the game will be sometime in 2006. That means you better savor SH4 while you can.

[StarZander]

Good to see you posting again ifirit. Hope to see you on msn sometime soon aswell, if possible. Got lots and lots to tell ya. See ya around.

[ArgonX]

I hate being gone for weeks on end.

Anywho, Ifirit I was waiting for you to reply to my post, I just knew you'd have some interesting info.

I have one question though, how does the supposed "tattoo" of the Seal of Metatron upon Valtiel explained. It was indeed Samael that Claudia was trying to revive and that Valtiel was looking over, but it wouldn't make sense for Valtiel to do that if he was an agent of Metatron.

That's why I came to the conclusion that he was looking over Heather instead of Samael and drew the distinction between Pyramid Head and Valtiel.

~AX~

[ifirit]

I have one question though, how does the supposed "tattoo" of the Seal of Metatron upon Valtiel explained. It was indeed Samael that Claudia was trying to revive and that Valtiel was looking over, but it wouldn't make sense for Valtiel to do that if he was an agent of Metatron.

That's why I came to the conclusion that he was looking over Heather instead of Samael and drew the distinction between Pyramid Head and Valtiel.

I can explain what the "Lost Memories" said about Vatiel and the plot to Silent Hill, but it will take some time to give a clear explanation. So, go ahead and grab a snack, or a drink, before we begin.

**Silent Hill 1 & 3 Spoilers**

As you know, Dahlia used Harry to seek out Alessa. She lead him on by giving him clues (though cryptic in nature) to the places where he should seek her out. In guiding Harry along, Dahlia told a lie to Harry in order to keep him on his toes (according to the "Lost Memories"). She explained that the "demon," "the demon taking that child's form," was sealing the town with the mark of Samael. As we learned in Silent Hill 3, the mark was not the "Mark of Samael," but the Mark (or Seal) of Metatron. The apparent reasoning for Dahlia to tell the lie was to convince Harry that he was searching for Alessa in order to save her, where in actuality, he was just helping lead Dahlia to Alessa's hinding spots (plural).

Dahlia's goal was to obtain the power that she had spent the last fourteen years trying to attain. Alessa's other half had reappeared in Silent Hill and she wanted to collect on her investment. However, Cheryl (Alessa's other half) had grown smart and was able to escape Dahlia's grasp. So, she employed Harry, unwittingly, to find the other half for her.

Now, in order to understand why Cheryl/Alessa was using the Seal of Metatron (more specifically, the Virun VII Crest) to "seal the town," you have to understand a little bit about the cult of Silent Hill. The names "Hope House Cult," 4S (Silent Hill Smile Support Society), or even "the Order" are all misinterpretted names for the cult of Silent Hill. (In SH4, you'll see why the name "Hope House Cult" is wrong.) Anyway, as we learned in SH3, Alessa grew up within this group, learning about the religion. In this time, I'm sure she was taught all sorts of magic and protection spells that she could use. In addition to this, we know that Metatron is a beign being among the cult's saints and angels. I assume that one of these spells allowed you to invoke "Metatron's protection." In SH1, Alessa tried to employ this protection. However, since we never get to see how the spell works or what is the resulting effect (thanks to Harry, and then Claudia), we don't know what is the purpose of the Seal of Metatron.

Back to Dahlia's lie. Dahlia didn't want Harry to think that he was working for a side of evil and exploitation, so she changed the name of Metatron (a beign being) to Samael (a being representing evil among normal people, more commonly used to represent Satan). This manipulation is mentioned in the book: "Syncretic Religions." Dahlia was a believer of the town's religion, but used critics' justifications to reverse the roles of good and evil. Harry didn't know any better, so he played along, unwittingly, with the story. All he cared about was getting Cheryl back.

What is important to note about the above is that the manipulation of Harry is not an internal struggle of religious politics like in SH3, but Dahlia's way of taking an unsuspecting person and using their misguided/undeveloped beliefs for her own purposes. In other words, she wanted Harry to believe that everything Alessa was doing to protect Cheryl, herself and, in turn, Harry was evil. This would drive Harry to continue his search.

Now back to the discussion of Metatron. In Silent Hill 3, the being Vatiel, a servant to Metatron (as noted in the "Lost Memories"), is called upon to "escort" Heather until the time when God can be born. (Hence the name Vatiel, as in valet.) Obivously, since Vatiel is a servant of Metatron, he will bare the same markings and symbols associated with Metatron himself, such as the Seal of Metatron. Like the seal itself, Vatiel's true purpose is a mystery. However, what we do know is that Vatiel is a beign creature in the eyes of the cult. Therefore, how you view the cult will determine whether or not you believe Vatiel, and as a result Metatron, is good or evil.

One last thing to note, God is neither Metatron, nor Samael. It is a being much higher than that of archangels. So, everyone who believes that Dahlia or Claudia was trying to bring Samael into existance in this world is very wrong. Also, as the "Origins" pointed out, God already created paradise, but did not set out the road to it. That is why Claudia wants to birth God, so that that road can be opened.

Good to see you posting again ifirit. Hope to see you on msn sometime soon aswell, if possible. Got lots and lots to tell ya. See ya around.

Thanks, but PM right now. I'm using the school computers, since I still don't have internet access at home yet.

Also, to DDE, the name of the painting of the Red Pyramid Thing is called, "Misty Days, the Remains of the Judgement."

[I-n-j-i-n]

One last thing to note, God is neither Metatron, nor Samael. It is a being much higher than that of archangels.

Well, that's probably because in some mythologies and stories about Metatron, he's one of the highest ranking archangels.

So that's about right. I think Metatron is just a being pulled in by the void of evil in Silent Hill when Dahlia tried using Metatron's power somehow, but Metatron, being a powerful being that he is, constantly helped Harry, James and other inhabitants of Silent Hill.

[ArgonX]

That's all good info Ifirit, thanks.

I appologize for the next statements, they aren't very organized.

I'm not anywhere an authority on the matter, but I believe that Metatron is the Voice of God, the highest ranking Archangel, correct?

If indeed the God that was being bore by Heather was the God that Metatron represents, it would make sense for Valtiel to protect it and Heather.

It would also make sense if Red Pyramid Thing is an invokation of the evil form of Valtiel as well because then Metatron would have sway over it - in the form of it's sirens which ward off the monster.

But saying those things, if you *spoilers* destroy "God" in the end of SH3 wouldn't you be betraying Valtiel and Metatron?

I'm now leaning towards a complete lack of Samael's presence in SH at all, but rather Metatron and "God". Instead of having a lesser of two evils situation (Metatron being the lesser), it seems that Metatron is just plain evil.

One other scrap of information - the save points in SH3 (And SH2, I believe. It's been a while since I played it). I found this:

1. It represents the deity known as "The Halo of the Sun". In heraldry, symbolizes a religious group.

2. The two outer circles are charity and resurrection; the three inner circles are present, past, and future.

3. Usually drawn in red. Occasionally drawn in black or other colors, but blue reverses the meaning into a curse on God and is therefore forbidden.

If anything, I just thought it an interesting subject.

~AX~

[Eccles]

As for Samael...

"Samael = (Unk) it is thought this angel of death was the demon who tempted Eve. Also the prince of Air. This is merely another name for Satan"

(Source: A dictionary of demons...I forgot the author, sorry)

As for Dahlia...

I dont think it's right to say she lied to Harry by saying the seal of metatron was the mark of Samael...considering something she says (in the Good+ ending, methinks):

"I had no idea the talisman of metatron was being used"

Also, in SH3, I've been failing to find some things...

Firstly, where are these dolls I've heard so much about? The only grotesque dolls I can find are the two in the hilltop centre when the place goes to hell...

Secondly, where am I supposed to flamethrower to get the SH1 pictures to appear? It's no good just having them on Heathers top...

[ifirit]

I think there is a little misunderstanding about what I posted above. This is not my interpretation of the events in the first game, nor my absolute concrete theory; this is merely what the "Lost Memories" claims happens (except that I had to tie a few ends together, since that is not done for you in the translations or explanations).

The "Lost Memories" says that Dahlia lied. The "Lost Memories" says that Metatron is an archangel and a lower being to God. The "Lost Memories" says that the cult sees Metatron as a beign and divine being.

What you need to understand is that how you veiw the events in the games depends on the perspective you assume. If you see things from a cult members view like Claudia's and Dahlia's perspective, you might believe that Metatron is representative of the side of good (even though it was Alessa you tried to call upon Metatron). If you assume the more outside role of a non-believer, like Douglas or Cybil, then you might see the cult and its heavenly abode as devils and demons. Still, this is only in terms of what you assume might happen if God is born. Dahlia and Claudia envisioned a paradise made on earth (please note that Dahlia's vision comes from her Nowhere speech, not her conversation with Harry on the boat), while Cybil and Douglas saw a terrible realm of hellish nightmare. However, in terms of what we see on the screen, the alternate worlds, which are harsh, dark and scary, you would hardly call it paradise. But then again, Claudia explains it as merely the point of view. Vincent saw a world gone wrong, while Claudia sees a paradise in construction. It's all how you see things. Which is why you have to assume first whether the cult's beliefs are good or evil before you continue to discuss the ideas surrounding Metatron or even Vatiel, because that will shape your point of view.

Again, THIS IS NOT MY EXPLANATION, but only what the "Lost Memories" wants you to see. And on that note, I should give you a link to the in-progress, fan translations of the Lost Memories. The translations are nearly completed (only 6 sections left), but still enough to draw your own conclusions about the story of Silent Hill.

Also, in SH3, I've been failing to find some things...

Firstly, where are these dolls I've heard so much about?

I assume you mean Scarlett and her friend, right? Well, these dolls are located in Alessa's childhood room in Nowhere (both SH1 and SH3). Look on the floor near the foot of the bed.

Secondly, where am I supposed to flamethrower to get the SH1 pictures to appear?

On the third floor of the Alternate Brookhaven Hospital, there is a smokey room that Heather comments on not being able to see through. Go to the far left of the glass, near the double doors, and stand as closely as you can to the glass. Use the flamethrower and the camera angles to see the wall on the left, behind the glass. That is where you will find the "Light Illuminating the Darkness" painting.

Silent Hill 4 Update:

In a previous post, I said that Konami had officially denied having a bundle (game and soundtrack) for the North American and European releases.

Well, it seems that Konami has changed their minds. For the US release of the game, Konami will now include a special edition SH4 soundtrack with the game. This special version of the soundtrack will include 20 tracks, 13 of which are not found on the Limited Edition Soundtrack released in Japan and 6 remixes of previously released material. No official word has been released for the PAL version yet.

Now, considering this, I wonder if I will recieve the Limited Edition soundtrack of SH4: The Room (released in Japan) from EBGames or if I will recieve the Special Edition soundtrack (released for the US) which will come with the game. Only time will tell.

EDIT: For those you you collecting websites and information about actual locations of places in Silent Hill, I have one more to add. Toluca Lake, which is located in the heart of Los Angeles, is home to a very quiet community with a small tourist resort for visitors. Enjoy!

EDIT 2: I had suggested something like this to DDE and SZ when we were considering building a Silent Hill website. Well, for those you who want to see which SH character you are most like, it's a fun little quiz. My results are posted below. (w00t!)

[StarZander]

EDIT 2: I had suggested something like this to DDE and SZ when we were considering building a Silent Hill website. Well, for those you who want to see which SH character you are most like, it's a fun little quiz. My results are posted below. (w00t!)

Well, I did that quiz aswell, and I got Harry Mason. Fits pretty well, imo.

Now, I should post something good here, probably, but I don't have anything to say, really. I'm just trying to get the willpower to play SH3 again, and I'm trying to get hold of all the resident evil games... Felt like playing them, until SH4 is released here. Whatever.

[RazorVayne]

This is probably very obvious, but Heather, I think is one of the hottest females to have ever appeared in a video-game!

[Firedrake]

That's nice, dear.