ifirit Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Warning: Silent Hill 1, 3 & 4 Spoilers You could say the fourth game has ties with the first and third games, because you can find memos about Alessa and Dahlia in/around the orphanage.Come to think of it, why haven't people come up with crackpot theories about Alessa having some kind of influence on Walter? The fanboiz are slipping, methinks. Alessa doesn't have any influence on Walter, because the cult of Silent Hill ("4S" for those who like to use acronyms) used the ceremonies tied to Vatiel to begin the Sacraments for the Descent of the Holy Mother ("21 Sacraments" for those who like use short names). According to the supplemental information provided by Translated Memories, the Vatiel sect headed by Jimmy Stone was responsible for placing the influence of Vatiel into Walter's subconscious. As you may know, the Vatiel sect was separate from the Holy Mother sect and the Saint Ladies sect, one of which was headed by Dahlia Gillespie (it is presumed that Dahlia headed the Saint Ladies sect, since the Holy Mother sect was responsible for the operation and maintainence of Wish House, something where the day-to-day duties did not involve Dahlia, as indicated by Walter's diary). Considering all this information, many people recognize that the actions by Walter and the influences by Alessa are two separate entities, though possibly aimed toward the same goal. Okay, a question I have about silent hill 4. Sorta spoilers, here, so I'ma white them out.So Walter is dead, right? And he's been dead for some time now. How, then, does he manage to turn up in the real world? People (most notably Frank) comment on having seen him hanging round Henry's room and you can see him for yourself (he stares through the doors peephole from time to time). I can understand why the child version of him would turn up in the otherworld: perhaps I'm wrong but all of the areas you go to are somehow important to Walters past (with the possible exception of the hospital)...I also understand why Adult Walter would turn up in the otherworld (punishing people, the 21 sacriments and so on), but what I don't get is how Walter can be so clearly dead and not dead simultaneously. And I'm done. One possible answer to your question maybe shown after Henry uses the "Keys of Liberation" on his front door. You are meant to realize that from the beginning of the game (although not the beginning of the five days when Henry became trapped in his room) Henry was in Walter's alternate world (Walternate world, sorry I just saw that as I was typing) the whole time. This suggests many different things. One, that the holes in Henry's room were not portals to an alternate world, but portals to different places within Walter's world, which is entirely interconnected (as you learn by escorting Eileen through the 2nd Visits). Two, the things Henry saw through his front door peephole where not entirely of the "real world." This means that some images that Henry saw through his windows, peephole and other views may have been layered, if not entirely within Walter's world. Obviously, the bloody handprints are an indication of this, since noone else seems to notice them on the wall. Back to the point, the bad and good endings suggest that Walter's intention was to create a connection between the "real world" and his world through Room 302 of South Ashfield Heights Apartments. When Henry looked through his windows, Henry was able to see things that could only appear from within Walter's world, including Walter himself. One theory that I am considering is that everything that Henry sees through his windows and peepholes are the confluence of the things he saw over the last five days. Walter's world simply built the outside world (outside Rm. 302) from the memory that Henry obtained over the last five days. This means that everything seen in Silent Hill 4: The Room is part of Walter's world, created from the memories of those who inhabit that world. Henry's reactions to the things he sees outside are just his reactions to memories, images which cannot act back towards him. Whether you believe that the world Henry sees is reality mixing with the alternate world or an extention of the alternate world entirely, you can agree that what Henry is seeing is not the true reality. P.S. To answer your question specifically about Superintendent Frank, the diary entry gives a little ambiguity to the idea that Frank dreamed that he saw Walter entering Room 302 with a blood-dripped bag ten years ago, rather than seeing it with his own eyes. What I find hard to believe about the diary entry is that Frank wouldn't have noticed an entire room missing from the apartment (the secret store-room). That you'll have to figure out for yourself. My theory on your query: Silent Hill is a magical creepy place. Not everything need be explained but I'm sure the "other world" and the "real world" sort of run on the same wave length or something (things that happened in either world somehow have an effect on the other). If neither of those theories help you out how about this one: Frank's umbilical cord. Perhaps it somehow holds a connection between the two worlds? Hence why you see the giant flopping umbilical chord in the subway world and when you revisit the prison tower world. The idea that the two worlds are influenced by each other requires one little detail to hold together: they must be connected. In Silent Hill 4: The Room' date=' the "real" world and the alternate world are not connected, that is why Walter is performing the Sacraments for the Decent of the Holy Mother. His attempt to purify "her" (Room 302) means that he wants to bring his [i']mother into his "purified" world (the alternate world) away from the things that he felt corrupted "her" (i.e. tenants). In other words, he needs to connect his world to the "real" world, which is accomplished as part of the Sacraments for the Decent of the Holy Mother ("21 Sacraments"). The image of the Greedy Worm as a symbol for an umbilical cord is used to mean a connection between parent and child. This metaphor can be extended to other various themes present in the game: Walter's connection (or lack of) to his mother (Room 302), the relationship between various parents and children displayed throughout the game, or the relationship that the "real" world provides the memories to build the alternate world from. This is Walter's intentions in completing the Sacraments for the Decent of the Holy Mother, to connect his world (or consciousness) to his mother the way a mother is connected to a child in the womb. But, you may be asking, "aren't the two worlds already connected?" Not entirely. The metaphor itself suggests this as the Greedy Worm is shown with a loose end. The Greedy Worm is not even shown connected at both ends, suggesting that the two worlds are not connected to each other. For example, you only meet Lisa in the otherworld Silent Hill. Likewise, you only see Alessa in the otherworld...shortly after the first boss in SH1 you see her watching you, but as things fade from bloody and burnt to normal she fades away. Alessa is seen in Misty Silent Hill. Cybil sees the girl in both Silent Hill and the Silent Hill Play Novel. However, Misty Silent Hill is not considered to be the "real" world either. Like what the hell was with the Flauros exactly?In the game it was a mystical artefact used for sealing power. Dahlia gave it to you knowing that sooner or later you'd run into Alessa' date=' which would cause the Flauros to activate, thus weakening Alessa and allowing Dahlia to take her to Nowhere.[/quote']Dahlia doesn't really take Alessa to Nowhere. Nowhere is Alessa's world (memories) collasped upon itself. Nowhere would have been located at the center of the Lakeside Amusement Park, where Alessa fell, which is why the chapel was later built at the same spot. The cult of Silent Hill believes that place to be a holy site. Lots of great references to Jacob's Ladder in these games (even the name of the street that you have to get to in the subway in SH3). Not to mention Session 9, if you've seen that movie. Haven't we been through all of this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorOutlaw Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Ifrit, did you catch my link to the Siren movie? It's posted on the previous page... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Ah...Jacob's Ladder was a good movie...It's probably been said here before, but the worst ending of Silent Hill 1 is also a homage to the ending of Jacob's Ladder.Spoiler: In the worst ending of SH1, Harry dies in his car, and apparently the entire game was simply what he saw in his mind, during his dying breaths. Similar to Jacob's Ladder, where the ending has Jacob dying on a hospital cot while still in Vietnam, and the entire movie was nothing but Jacob's last visions. Or something to that effect, hehe I've never actually gotten the worst ending to Silent Hill before. So I had no idea. But that's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Since we're talking about homages and the like. I'm sure you're all already aware of the street names in the first game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquil Chaos Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Session 9 sucked and wasn't scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 It had it's moments but, yeah, the film sucked. The deleted scenes made it even dumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifirit Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Ifrit, did you catch my link to the Siren movie? It's posted on the previous page... I saw the link, I'm more excited about Siren 2, than I am about the Siren film, which will probably turn out like a lot of the Japanese genre films, such as Parasite Eve, Boogiepop & Others or Tomei (a true Silent Hill influence for those in the know). Since we're talking about homages and the like. I'm sure you're all already aware of the street names in the first game. I take it that you didn't get a chance to check out Nursery Cryme while it was still open. A pity' date=' really. Fortunately, Silent Hill Tears has kept a candlelight vigil for the site, by hosting a copy of the timeline originally on Nursery Cryme and maintaining many of the references seen in the first game. References made in the second game will be included at a later date. I suggest everyone brush up on their SH references, since this is starting to get out of hand. EDIT: P.S. DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff, please refrain from making double posts. If you need to include an additional thought or continue an idea in your post, please use the "EDIT" button located at the top, right-hand corner of your posts (). Session 9 sucked and wasn't scary. Session 9, like many psychological thrillers, requires that you emerse yourself in the atmosphere developed by the film and have an active imagination. If your mind isn't wondering what lies around the next corner or what'll show up next, the experience probably won't be very enjoyable. Session 9 isn't cult-acclaimed because of the story or it's ability to scare you outright, but for it's genuinely creepy atmosphere which is pretty unique in terms of cinematagraphy (sp?). Most people have to experience the film in an isolated setting in order to appreciate this aspect of the film's character; otherwise, distractions pull you away from the experience and prevent you from absorbing the full view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Just a side note, but Dahlia is directly tied to Walter's actions as a child in SH4, I don't know if this was said earlier or not. Anyway, she (as is implied in a diary I think) was the one that suggested that he go and "visit" his mother, (the Room) I believe...I'm pretty sure, can someone check on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifirit Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Warning: Silent Hill 4 Spoilers Just a side note, but Dahlia is directly tied to Walter's actions as a child in SH4, I don't know if this was said earlier or not. Anyway, she (as is implied in a diary I think) was the one that suggested that he go and "visit" his mother, (the Room) I believe...I'm pretty sure, can someone check on this? From the diary entry, it's somewhat unclear as to whether Dahlia was addressing Walter directly or whether it was just something that she said while meeting with the Holy Mother sect. Either way, Walter misinterpretted the message. I don't think that Dahlia was refering to Walter's actual or perceived mother, but likely to the Holy Mother. I mean, how could she know the location of this particular orphan's birth parents immediately on their first meeting? From Walter's diary, Walter over-reacts at the mention of this and wants to see his mother in order to find solice in someone meant to love him unconditionally as an escape from the treatment he was receiving under the care of Wish House. I don't believe that it's a coincidence that the mention of Dahlia and her visit are listed after Walter's recants about his life at Wish House. It isn't until Walter actually gets to Ashfield and is unable to locate his mother that he begins thinking that his mother is in Room 302 of South Ashfield Heights Apartments (and then ultimately that the room itself is his mother). Walter's search is entirely out of his own desire to see his mother, not by suggestion that he see her by Dahlia or anyone else. Also, she mentions Ashfield, not specifically South Ashfield, where Walter spends the majority of the time searching. In fact, the diary even suggests that Walter was advised not to go to South Ashfield, because it is a "scary place." felixmcli.org - Silent Hill 4 The Room - Notes (Red Writings) (Specifically, entries Oct. 16th & Oct. 17th) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I don't know if you're trying to be a jerk or if you just think you're a know-it-all or what, but not all of us here read up on every little piece of background on the games. "This getting out of hand"? Because we're not all knowing, like yourself? Sorry some of have questions and some of us take longer to piece things together. Also, I'm very aware of the EDIT button. I just don't want to have big ass posts like yourself. I was writing on seperate topics as well. I mean no offence, by the way, and thanks for the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifirit Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I don't know if you're trying to be a jerk or if you just think you're a know-it-all or what' date=' but not all of us here read up on every little piece of background on the games. "This getting out of hand"? Because we're not all knowing, like yourself? Sorry some of have questions and some of us take longer to piece things together.[/quote']The problem is that we recently (meaning about two months ago) went over many of the influences from Silent Hill. Also' date=' I'm very aware of the EDIT button. I just don't want to have big ass posts like yourself. I was writing on seperate topics as well.[/quote']Double posting is one of those things that makes people look stupid. When you make two posts within 1 minute of each other, that just seems careless. I'm not directing anything toward you in offense, but just trying to keep you from making blatant social faux pas's. I mean no offence' date=' by the way, and thanks for the links.[/quote']It's not that people shouldn't ask questions, but a little research will get you farther than just asking flat out without knowing whether the questions have been asked and answered already. Although it seems like quite a task, this thread has some really great information and provides some unique perspectives that you probably won't see anywhere else, so reading through it proves to be beneficial. For some of the members here, reading through the entire thread is a badge of honor, myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Being fairly new to the boards here, I only recently discovered this thread and was surprised to see how many pages it had (77 at the time). I didn't bother reading those pages because I also saw when the thread was created and was probably full of things that no one was discussing anymore. So I just hopped right on without was being said at present. Now that I'm so stoked about the movie and all though I just may read those first 77 pages now. Thanks for being helpful instead of being a jerk, by the way. I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petara Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Wow...that was awesome. I just beat SH2 for the first time and, yes, my pants are moist. Definitely my favorite of the series. Still, the most impactful quote goes to Vincent in SH3: (Vincent to Heather) "Is that what they look like to you?"... "Just joking! It was a joke." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnforgivingEdges Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Wow...that was awesome. I just beat SH2 for the first time and, yes, my pants are moist. Definitely my favorite of the series. Game storytelling and emotion evoking don't get much better. Also, for the quote thing, I think what Angela said to James on the stairs of the hotel at the end of SH2 was probably the most powerful quote in the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petara Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 "It's always like that for me..." Yeah, that certainly was a punch in the nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblazer1224 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 SH2 spoilers...(possibly) "I'm not your Mary, but I can if you want me to be. It doesn't matter who I am, I'm here for you James. See, I'm real." that was an awesome scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BocoDragon Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 "It doesn't matter who I am, I'm here for you James. See, I'm real." I also like how after you beat the game, Maria actually speaks that quote during the looping cinema. Before you beat it she's muted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I can't think of too many quotes as of right now (because it's been a while since I played any of the games) but, one that sticks out in my mind right now is in SH4 when Cynthia's all covered in blood, her eyes are swarming around and she says, "I feel like I'm dying". It probably didn't hurt to have Room of Angel playing in the background either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Instrument of GAWD Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Ah, it's been awhile since I've posted here. Since we're into quotes right now, guess I'll bring up the discussion between Ol' Jimbo and Fat Eddie in the prison. I was rather interested in seeing Eddie starting to fall a part at that point. Finally admitting he's killing people but still making excuses for it. On a different topic, I find it abit odd that James' Voice Actor (Guy Cihi) is a president (or whatever) of some kind of investiments company in Japan. Ifirit pointed it out to me once, blew my mind... sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watkinzez Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I was thinking of getting Silent Hill 2 given its reputation. Are the games inter-related in any way, or are they seperate stories each time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Skratch 'n' Sniff Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I was thinking of getting Silent Hill 2 given its reputation. Are the games inter-related in any way, or are they seperate stories each time? Heh-heh, it depends who you ask. They're all inter-related in one way or another (re-occurring characters and continuing story-line) but none of them are really a direct sequel of the previous one. It's kind of complicated. The second one's a good one to start with considering it has the least to do with the other three. Then you can play 1, 3 and 4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BocoDragon Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I was thinking of getting Silent Hill 2 given its reputation. Are the games inter-related in any way, or are they seperate stories each time? Some of them are definitely connected. Some of them are only spiritually connected. Silent Hill 2 is self-contained, and an excellent place to start in the series. Of course, it has some subtle connections to other titles...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watkinzez Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hmm, okay then. I just hope I'll be able to find it somewhere. Wouldn't figure it to be a rare game, so shouldn't be that hard.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Final Minuet Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I would definitely recommend Silent Hill 2. It's pretty easy to find (at least, around here it is), and I'd say it's probably the scariest overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nulion Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Make sure if you're getting Silent Hill 2 for PS2, get the Greatest Hits edition....it has the extra "Born from a Wish" scenario in it where you play as Maria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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