Metroid: Other M

[Nabeel Ansari]

Oh, I don't know, I thought that Mystery Creature/Rhedogian, Desbrachian, "Stage 4", Sector Zero Escape, Approaching MB, Kihunter Hive, and Tracking The Deleter were all pretty good. If nothing else, they certainly made for a better atmosphere than most of the other Metroid game's music.

Metroid Prime had a bit more than 2x that much of actual melodic songs, not just percussive effects and arpeggio blips and a few nice grooves here and there. Like Tallon Overworld, Tallon Overworld 2, Underwater Space Frigate, Magmoor Caverns, Chozo Ruins, Phendrana Drifts, Deep Lake of Phendrana Drifts, and that's just the level themes.

All of the main elemental areas in Metroid Prime had great melodic themes. Metroid Prime 2 has a few as well, and Metroid Prime 3 was just unbelievable. It was a different style than previous games; almost EVERY area had a great background tune that had good arrangement structure to it also.

[Overflow]

However, on a different note:

Some of the songs on the soundtrack are actually pretty damn great.

Yes, I too wish there were more melodic elements, but some things like:

Nightmare

Tracking the Deleter

Escape from Sector 0

Approaching MB

KiHunter Hive/KiHunter Fight

Pyrosphere

Vorash battle

Are really awesome in their own right.

EDIT: Looks like someone agrees with me. Good find on the "Stage 4" song- that's pretty damn cool too!

I mean, heck that Kihunter fight song is pretty bitchin', though my favorite tracks are Tracking the Deleter and Approaching MB.

I don't think the OST is getting enough credit; it IS professional and some tracks are good.

However, I think we were all wishing for Mr. Yamamoto to work his magic again.

Too bad he and Retro are working on the new Donkey Kong game, which I have a feeling will be nigh perfect.

Haha, lol, yeah, I was just about to say something

[Nabeel Ansari]

(assuming we're following your rule of "no sequence breaking").

I feel alienated because I believe sequence breaking is not legit and you don't seem to agree.

EDIT:

I feel happy because the thread is actually discussing tangible real elements of the game now rather than fighting over what should be the behavior of Samus Aran the lone wolf robot.

And as for those songs, I have no idea what to say. If you showed them to me, I wouldn't know they were Metroid: Other M tracks, because they aren't emphasized. 90% of the tracks you posted I didn't even recognize... i agree they are nice tracks, but to serve as BGM i feel they are too backgroundish, because I never even noticed this game had music outside of boss fights and revisiting areas.

[EC2151]

Dude, sequence breaking is what makes the older Metroid games so fun! Some of it may not be on purpose, but it's hard to deny that it's given those games a whole lot of longevity.

And Zero Mission. Which had INTENTIONALLY put in Sequence-breaking routes. How else could you beat that game collecting only 15 items or less, TOTAL?

[BardicKnowledge]

You still follow a general outline of the plot. You have to fight bosses in a certain order, correct?

Largely true without sequence breaking. Torizo --> Spore Spawn --> Kraid --> Crocomire --> Phantoon --> Maridia worm thing --> Draygon --> Golden Torizo --> Ridley --> Mother Brain is the standard progression, I believe.

However, skipping Spore Spawn and Crocomire are both fairly simple, as is skipping Maridia entirely (just don't go there!). Skipping Kraid requires some real skill as the Norfair run is not easy the first few times you try it. Skipping the Golden Torizo is possible but not practical for anyone -- same story for glitching through the Zebetites at the very end to allow for a 14% run.

The only _required_ bosses if you want to access the vast majority of the game are the Torizo (for bombs) and Phantoon (for gravity suit, to allow Maridia). Everyone else becomes optional (or in Ridley / MB's case, endgame) once you learn all of the tricks to get around quickly.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Dude, sequence breaking is what makes the older Metroid games so fun! Some of it may not be on purpose, but it's hard to deny that it's given those games a whole lot of longevity.

I said sequence breaking wasn't legit free roam;

I never said it wasn't a legit way to enjoy the game. I apologize for the discrepancy.

[RDX]

That is a legit, non-diehard fandom complaint.

What exactly makes you the judge of what is legitimate and what is not?

You're acting as if I didn't make that post earlier about you oversimplifying everything.

Edit: That sounded dickish. My bad, my point still stands but I apologize if I'm coming off as rude.

[Calpis]

You know, the retort "Why are you picking apart the story IT'S A GAME" doesn't hold as much water when you consider that in ALL the months leading up to this game, the creator (and story-writer) Yoshio Sakamoto had been repeatedly REPEATEDLY stating that the story for Other M was going to be the best thing about it, and about how proud he was of the STORY and how we're all going to love the STORY.

I can see that. Like I said, I think everyone came into this game with different expectations. I remember watching the developer interviews about the game and what I got from it for me was that they're trying to match the gameplay and feel of Super Metroid, although in hindsight I do remember him pimping the story a lot as well. I kind of assumed that he was just talking about the fact that there is more of an emphasis in story than previous games.

I'll also say that I think the music was good and matched the action well, it just didn't blow me away. I think it was too quiet or something.

[Ferret]

Okay, so after two hours of play my thoughts so far:

Where the hell is that damn powerup?!

I'm pretty sure I've missed some in the early segment of the bottle ship before you turn the power back on but hell if I know that for certain.

One thing I'm definitely NOT pleased with is the stipulation that you must destroy all enemies in a given room for the power-up to appear. It basically turns the search for items from an actual search to a "kill-em-all" routine where every room might have an item and therefore every room is a miniboss unto itself.

[Nabeel Ansari]

What exactly makes you the judge of what is legitimate and what is not?

You're acting as if I didn't make that post earlier about you oversimplifying everything.

Edit: That sounded dickish. My bad, my point still stands but I apologize if I'm coming off as rude.

I can judge because I am entitled to an opinion, just like everyone of you. I never said you had to follow my opinions, but I do believe it is ridiculous how people are so angry about something like Samus's behavior. I believe (once again, an "opinion" word) that the complaints about her behavior as legitimate reasons to hate the game are just a spawn of fandom taken way too seriously.

EDIT: In other words, it's my opinion that that opinion sucks.

And Ferret, you don't need to destroy all the enemies... and searching for items is just as hard as it was in the Prime games.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Not only that, but I seem to remember certain blips on the map and mini-map in every 2D Metroid that would show you that an item was nearby... Doesn't sound like a compelling argument to me, Ferret.

Also an open question: How is "sequence-breaking" fun? "Oh boy! I figured out how to get to the end boss by skipping this entire section and thus missing out all the extra items, gameplay, content and fun I would have experienced otherwise! I get to play the game MY way!"

Getting through The Legend of Zelda without the sword or going through Final Fantasy with a team of white mages wasn't fun and/or challenging, people. It was lame and you all know it. You're more than welcome to enjoy it(and more power to you I guess), but that doesn't make it any less dumb.

That being said, another story thread that I was kind of confused about was SPOILER the deleter and who he/she was. At first I thought it was James(since you can never actually trust the Steve Buscemi character), but then I got to thinking that it was a projection of MB. Did they ever reveal who it was or was I supposed to figure that on my own? END SPOILER.

I might give the game another go later this week. Much fun indeed.

[The Mutericator]

Not only that, but I seem to remember certain blips on the map and mini-map in every 2D Metroid that would show you that an item was nearby... Doesn't sound like a compelling argument to me, Ferret.

Also an open question: How is "sequence-breaking" fun? "Oh boy! I figured out how to get to the end boss by skipping this entire section and thus missing out all the extra items, gameplay, content and fun I would have experienced otherwise! I get to play the game MY way!"

Getting through The Legend of Zelda without the sword or going through Final Fantasy with a team of white mages wasn't fun and/or challenging, people. It was lame and you all know it. You're more than welcome to enjoy it(and more power to you I guess), but that doesn't make it any less dumb.

You're dumb. Sequence breaking gets you the crazy stuff EARLY. If I can walk into Brinstar and grab the Super Missiles, two Missile Expansions, and a Reserve Tank with ONE mockball, not to mention getting the Ice Beam with just as little effort, that is AWESOME. The challenge makes it harder in some areas, yeah, but way easier in others (Metroid Prime: Space Boots once you land on Tallon IV, double jump with the visor glitch to get the Missiles before fighting the even that first red-assed boss).

In other words, you're completely missing the point of sequence breaking. It isn't to avoid items, it's to avoid going out of your way to get them (killing bosses and taking the time) in order to get other stuff early. Yes, it can be USED for low-item runs, but that isn't the express point (also low item runs are fun).

[RDX]

I can judge because I am entitled to an opinion, just like everyone of you. I never said you had to follow my opinions, but I do believe it is ridiculous how people are so angry about something like Samus's behavior. I believe (once again, an "opinion" word) that the complaints about her behavior as legitimate reasons to hate the game are just a spawn of fandom taken way too seriously.

EDIT: In other words, it's my opinion that that opinion sucks.

And Ferret, you don't need to destroy all the enemies... and searching for items is just as hard as it was in the Prime games.

"Once again"? Are you implying that "judge" and calling something "not legit" in an argument doesn't mean that his point is invalid? Those aren't opinion terms, you're telling him what he is saying is wrong. You're dismissing his points because according to you they're not "legit". How is doing that an "opinion"?

[Overflow]

Oh boy, now we're getting into the realm of universal truths.

[Nabeel Ansari]

"Once again"? Are you implying that "judge" and calling something "not legit" in an argument doesn't mean that his point is invalid? Those aren't opinion terms, you're telling him what he is saying is wrong. You're dismissing his points because according to you they're not "legit". How is doing that an "opinion"?

I'm telling he is wrong because I THINK he is wrong. He doesn't have to agree.

I shouldn't have to put "I believe" or "I think" in front of everything I say.

[BardicKnowledge]

Also an open question: How is "sequence-breaking" fun? "Oh boy! I figured out how to get to the end boss by skipping this entire section and thus missing out all the extra items, gameplay, content and fun I would have experienced otherwise! I get to play the game MY way!"

Getting through The Legend of Zelda without the sword or going through Final Fantasy with a team of white mages wasn't fun and/or challenging, people. It was lame and you all know it. You're more than welcome to enjoy it(and more power to you I guess), but that doesn't make it any less dumb.

The short sarcastic response to this is "Have you ever fought Crocomire with the plasma beam?"

Seriously though, sequence breaking is fun for all kinds of reasons. One is that I really enjoy speedrunning this game (and Castlevania SOTN) -- breaking allows you to beat the game quickly if you're into that sort of thing. Secondly, if you're so good at the base game that you can beat it in your sleep, sequence breaking adds some challenge and diversity to the route. In Zelda 3, for instance, I nearly always get the Fire Rod before going to the Tower of Hera. Similarly, I always get the Magic Cape before finishing Dark World 4. If there was a clean way to finish the 2nd (dark) dungeon level without the Moon Pearl, I would love to beat the whole thing without it sometime.

In Super Metroid, I almost always get my first set of super missiles from Brinstar's first room (with the reserve tank in the back) before I get Speed Booster. It's just convenient to be able to open those doors early, as opposed to having to trek back much later in the game. Sequence breaking eliminates back-tracking here, which can be a good thing (especially if you want 100% collection or speed).

FYI, playing without getting all the upgrades in Metroid in order is NOT equivalent to a swordless run in Zelda. The equivalent glitch is climbing down Death Mountain without the Moon Pearl to access the Dark World early. Want to know what the difference is? Swordless you don't always have the tools you need to advance. In Metroid, once you get bombs you can access 70% of the game with no other powerups, and if you pick up the charge beam (Metroid's "sword", if you will) then you always have something at hand that will score a killing blow.

The other comparison you make, a party of four White Mages in FF1, is more valid. Both cases require creative play to advance, and knowledge / study is required to make it work. That's the type of game I like to play, not something I can barrel through at lightspeed. When I want to steamroll through a game I play Donkey Kong Country instead.

Oh boy, now we're getting into the realm of universal truths.

Yeah, I'm not stepping foot inside that half of this argument

[Ferret]

No, what I meant was that they won't show you on the minimap where the item is until you beat all the enemies in the room...

And unlike Prime the items don't give off a noise to help you find them.

[EC2151]

People who say Sequence Breaking sucks OBVIOUSLY have never tried it and have seen just how fun it is. Which means for the most part their criticisms mean nothing.

Do you know what it's like to get the Varia suit (less damage and heat resistance) as soon as you get the bombs in Zero Mission? So basically, 5 minutes into the game?

It's FUN.

And yes, low item runs are fun. Heck 1% (one unavoidable missile expansion) run in Fusion is a blast.

[Nabeel Ansari]

People who say Sequence Breaking sucks OBVIOUSLY have never tried it and have seen just how fun it is. Which means for the most part their criticisms mean nothing.

Do you know what it's like to get the Varia suit (less damage and heat resistance) as soon as you get the bombs in Zero Mission? So basically, 5 minutes into the game?

It's FUN.

And yes, low item runs are fun. Heck 1% (one unavoidable missile expansion) run in Fusion is a blast.

I agree with ^

Sequence breaking is fun because it lets the player exploit the mistakes in the video game universe. The "rules" for the game are broken, and you are defying what the game has set for you to do, letting the player feel they have outsmarted the developer, whether they exploited it themselves or just watched a how to video.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

. That's the type of game I like to play, not something I can barrel through at lightspeed. When I want to steamroll through a game I play Donkey Kong Country instead.

I see what you did there.

[BardicKnowledge]

I didn't actually, haha.

[Admiral_C]

the deleter and who he/she was. At first I thought it was James(since you can never actually trust the Steve Buscemi character), but then I got to thinking that it was a projection of MB. Did they ever reveal who it was or was I supposed to figure that on my own? END SPOILER.

I might give the game another go later this week. Much fun indeed.

Well, I thought it was James at first as well, but once you finish the game and look at the character info again, it shows up that K.G. is MIA and was never found, hinting that it might have been him. I may be getting ahead of myself, but personally, I think that there were 2 deleters. James being the initial one, and K.G. being assigned to "finish the job" and remove James once his part was complete.

I think we'll have to wait for another installment to find out the whole truth. Either that, or its totally buried somewhere like that one Super Secret room in Fusion.

[EC2151]

As far as the Deleter goes....

I'm pretty sure the game wants you to think it's James. He was at the computer room first, after all. And his helmet has a faded 07 on it. When you see the Deleter throw a Marine into the lava, the Deleter's helmet has a faded 07 on it too.

The reason why KG was labeled MIA was because his body was the one thrown into the lava. You can't find a body burnt into carbon, can you?

I thought it was KG too when I saw the MIA, but then other folks are like "dude, the lava," and I'm like "ohh."

I think James was killed by MB when he tried to shoot her to cover up the final piece of evidence.

[RDX]

^^^ I never thought of it that way, you're probably right though.

As for the Neblix argument, uhh if it's really as hairy and terrifying as you're all making that subject out to be, I'd rather throw in the towel than end up in a rhetorical debate of abortion-esque proportions.

[Overflow]

People who say Sequence Breaking sucks OBVIOUSLY have never tried it and have seen just how fun it is. Which means for the most part their criticisms mean nothing.

Do you know what it's like to get the Varia suit (less damage and heat resistance) as soon as you get the bombs in Zero Mission? So basically, 5 minutes into the game?

It's FUN.

And yes, low item runs are fun. Heck 1% (one unavoidable missile expansion) run in Fusion is a blast.

I agree as well. I never knew you could actually fight Ridley BEFORE Kraid in Zero Mission!

I'm also still working through Fusion on a 1% run. I'm stuck on the final SA-X encounter, though. I've been working on this run for the last 3 years. SOme of those bosses are near impossible with just 99 health points!