djpretzel 🎮 Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 I'm sure anyone who hears this soundtrack has to love it. I hadn't even played the game until recently, and I kinda just decided the music was cool, so I'd attempt a remix. I also did this because I knew it would be kind ofa challenge. I've never really worked this extensively trying to time samples and vocals, so I took some experimentation. It's really kind of a fusion between "Sneakman" and "Let Mom Sleep"(yeah, I like combining songs), with a big percussion/drum solo section in the middle. Anyway, here it is. Name is HappyBivouac and all that jazz. I hope you enjoy this as much as I enjoyed doing it. -HappyBivouac
DarkeSword 🎮 Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 Wow. Percussion break is sexy. Woo. I really like this. You've done a great job combining both songs into one piece of music. Very groovy and fast paced. Lots of vocal samples, but that's characteristic of the OST itself, so I can't fault you for that. Plus they work really well. Some slight clipping though. Negligible. YES
danny B Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 Yes. Oh yes. This is nice. Great production values, excellent drum work. Add some awesome breaks, sampling, and clear instrumentation. I see no reason to hold this back. YES -D
Protricity Posted February 24, 2004 Posted February 24, 2004 Wow. WOW. Great production values here. Great percussion. Sweet. YES
analoq Posted February 24, 2004 Posted February 24, 2004 i'm surprised this has passed so easily, i'm quite familiiar with the JGR soundtrack and it is my opinion that this borrows too heavily from the originals. he sampled not only the vocals, but some of the percussion breaks, guitar riffs, the turntablism and various brass and string-section hits. the new stuff added like the simple filtenv synth and muddy bass are on par with the FL-noob stuff we get. the only thing this has going for it is the nice new percussion section. sure, it's already been passed but i think this deserves a second look. no
Digital Coma Posted February 24, 2004 Posted February 24, 2004 I agree that this needs a second look; this is a step down from the originals without much novelty or significant change in style. The bass is poor, the percussion attempts to mimic the originals', vocals are sampled, simplistic structure... without listening to the source material I guessed that this sounded too much like a game song, and now that I've listened to it I don't think this should pass. NO
GrayLightning Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 I love this! I initially voted on this as a YES too hastily. This is not a rearrangement. What we have here is a remix, that borrows a lot of material from the original. I love the new added percussion material here. But like the recent metal gear mix, and the sephire one, this mix is unfortunately out of the OC guidelines. There needs to be more melodic and harmonic arrangement. Most to all of the melody and harmony of this mix is taken from the game. Very clever mix, but not an arrangement so I am very sad to give this a ?.
danny B Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 I'd like to see this pass. I think the amount of effort obviously expended on the project with very creative loop chopping and synth addition makes it a worthwhile listen. I think this mix just goes about being creative in a unique way. Oh well, I guess it's up to a tiebreaker. -D
GrayLightning Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 The problem with passing these kinds of mixes is we've rejected a bunch of similar types of these recently.
Protricity Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 There are added melodic reenterpretations here. The bass is better than a recent passed puzzlebubble mix, btw. Most importantly, there is some great percussion production. I can tell a great deal of the percussion is original. The originality is excellent and the general production values are way better than the two originals. I rejected the metal gear song not because of its similarities, but because I did not feel the production and arrangement were any good. This is not the case with this song. My vote stays YES
GrayLightning Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 Well here's my question, have we let through anything like this in the past? Rather than rearrangements? Can this even be considered a rearrangement rather than a remix when there's questionably this much material from the original? Where are we putting the standard as far as the reliance of material from the game? There are a lot of gray areas that need to be asked and answered. Edit: I've changed my vote to undecided. As it is, I am having a hard time determining if this is a remix or a rearrangement that is within the OC guidelines. If we consider this an arrangement then I think my vote is yes.
Protricity Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 My opinion on this is that a remix that borrows too heavily from the original source should be rejected. However, a remix that has a significant deal of originality and is well done may use as much original material as it needs. The reason for this is that it is evident the author had the skills and put forth the effort. In this song, one can note the fully original percussion track, the changed up bass line, and the increase of musical qualities. This is not a direct rip off the original. It uses nothing but the vocal clips and wah wah guitar thing. Everything else is original and great. Secondly (my opinion still), a mix may be graded on other things than musical qualities such as percussion, production skill etc. Even if it lacks in some area (this one does not lack in any area really) one may look at the sweet ass percussive element of this song and say 'That alone puts it above the average'. It is not an uncertainty to me whether this mix should pass. It is clear to me that it should. I'd like to hear some other comments here as it seems only through debate can we solve this.
DarkeSword 🎮 Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 I can't address what's been done in the past, considering I'm new to the panel, but something I'd like to point out is that when you're talking about remixing Jet Set Radio music, its not the same as if you're remixing something like Terra's Theme from FF6. We're talking about source tunes which are primarily groove based; the orignals heavily rely on the grooves and the samples to get their point across. Songs like Sneak Man and Let Mom Sleep are not a melodic masterpieces. Their primary pull lies in the fact that they have phat beats and unique voice samples. There's not much to them. The remixer here takes these tracks and brings a lot of new ideas in, primarily the excellent percussion track. He effectively takes what defines the source tunes (the vocal samples) and rearranges them with a fresh sound. Also, the samples and hits from BOTH source pieces are arranged into one cohesive song. Add to that the high-production values, and you have a winner. I think that this piece shows a lot of originality and talent. I think something like this deserves to be on OCR.
analoq Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 It uses nothing but the vocal clips and wah wah guitar thing. you either a) have not listened to this mix and the originals closely or i am mishearing things. option b is quite possible. i mishear things and make mistakes. but as i said before, i am rather familiar with this soundtrack. i have had the OST since around when the game came out and it is my favorite game soundtrack of all time. i am hearing much more than just the vocals and wah guitar used from the originals (like what i described before). this by itself does not warrant a rejection from me. i felt Trenthian's recent mix relied too heavily on those choir samples, but i passed it anyways because i felt the use was creative enough to be passable. i don't feel the same way about this mix. the cutting up and organization of the original material is very basic at best, it would be trivial to replicate. the additional parts like the filtenv saw and bass are just plain weak and show no production skill whatsoever. where this mix excels is the percussion sequencing, we all seem to agree on that. however i don't think that alone makes up for the mediocrity of everything else. binnie summed up my feelings on the creativity of this mix: a step down from the original with no significant change in style or execution. just simplistic, basic embellishments. imo, this mix deserves a resubmit. however if you guys want to pass it, i'll respect that decision (of course) cheers.
GrayLightning Posted February 25, 2004 Posted February 25, 2004 I can't address what's been done in the past, considering I'm new to the panel, but something I'd like to point out is that when you're talking about remixing Jet Set Radio music, its not the same as if you're remixing something like Terra's Theme from FF6.We're talking about source tunes which are primarily groove based; the orignals heavily rely on the grooves and the samples to get their point across. Songs like Sneak Man and Let Mom Sleep are not a melodic masterpieces. Their primary pull lies in the fact that they have phat beats and unique voice samples. There's not much to them. There's a problem with that. Israfel, Protricity and myself would and have rejected the Hymn of the Fayth mixes like Jared's and like our recent rejection of sephire's Hymn of the same material due to lack of melodic and harmonic arrangement or too much originality since there's possibly less to work with. Here there is less to work since it's primarily groove based with but he's used phrases and expanded on the percussion. The problem is that that was heavily reliant on the choir. The argument could be made that hymn of the fayth is just choir oriented and so it needs not much if any arrangement. Just put in some great percussion, bass and chop up things and be done? In the sephire case, I think based on our vote we concluded that some pieces of music are simplly too difficult to mix to the OC guidelines. I think we need to consider past and future ramifications of this decision.
Protricity Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 I believe the conclusion on the sepheroth song was that if one removed the vocals, the mix would still be pretty cool, and thus is not too much of a ripoff with them in. I would think the same goes for this one. The vocals make it rock, but were they removed, the mix is still OCR worthy.
Digital Coma Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 If the vocals were completely removed from Trenthian's mix, it wouldn't be recognizable as One-Winged Angel. These Jet Set Radio songs, unlike that FF7 track, are melodically substantial (if not intricate) and not reliant on a few vocals or a couple breaks to carry them through, yet this mix does just that without any original twist and ultimately sounds cheap. I think both sides have covered their points well enough, someone else has to join us and tiebreak.
Vig Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 YES. now STFU. If you need further explaination, i agree that this has enough originality that it doesnt rely completely on the vocal samples and the original. The percussion in particular adds something that the originals did not have. Otherwise, I agree with everything the other YES votes have said.
Disco Dan Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 Ok here's the problem with remixing any songs of such original high calibre. It becomes hard to improve upon them. This doesn't seem like an improvement, and it doesn't seem like a new take on it. It seems like an imitation with some medley action going on, but with the exception of some interesting acoustic audio percussion, it doesn't bring much to the table. Add to that a lot of audio clipping and it doesn't sound like a winner to me. I know this is already locked, but if it weren't, I'd lay down a big fat: NO D
Vig Posted February 26, 2004 Posted February 26, 2004 I'll admit that i'm on the fence on this one, however i'm keeping my vote a YES. This mix borrows fairly heavily from the two original songs, but it arranges the borrowed elements in a cohesive and interesting way that is definitely different from either of the originals. There is a large amount of creative overlap and original material. This mix falls in some very gray area. Both sides of the argument have valid points, and I've never seen such intense debate on IRC. A decision either way would be justifiable. I made my vote because the mix is not a straight rip by any means. It has been made clear that using in-game clips is acceptable, and this mixes the two themes in a creative way, and adds captivating bass and drum sections. It's a good listen, so I stand by my vote.
GrayLightning Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 Not that it matters, but for the record I'm still unsure about this mix. I could vote either way. Undecided.
analoq Posted February 27, 2004 Posted February 27, 2004 hmm... that's the fourth time you've changed your vote. i suggest you stick with undecided (:
GrayLightning Posted February 28, 2004 Posted February 28, 2004 Edit: After even more listens and better rested ears after a long week, I'm changing my vote again. I think this definitely meets and surpasses the bar required for postage. YES Final vote change. ^_~
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