Infinity Ward and Activision crap on PC gamers

[Chako]

its simple... just get a ps3 for 299 and call it a day..

[prophetik music]

They want to control all the servers so they can eradicate custom mods and maps. That way, they don't have any competition when they can instead charge people for the shit known as DLC.

this is pretty true. it's also known as 'just business'. you can't fault them for wanting to reduce piracy and continue to milk the market down the line like they can for consoles and all that.

[Chako]

it also stop mofos from hackin and flying around the map like a fukin tinkerbell or some shit..lol i dont blame them

[JoeFu]

What worries me is that you have replied to pretty much every post in this thread. Ohnoes, someone isn't doing something the way you want them to, you hate it even though you haven't tried it yet, and you are arguing on points that are either baseless or flawed to begin with.

Here's a nice thought for you; what about those places that don't have decent servers local to them? But they know 15 people who want to play nearby? Doesn't that benefit them?

If you are going to argue that something "craps" on something, try and do it in a rational, logical way. Blatantly denying any point a person makes, and ridiculing them for it is how flame wars start. If you disagree, be nice about it.

You guys aren't presenting anything either. Just saying stuff like "oh maybe it will be good", guess what, the original solution was already the best. your example of the 15 people that don't have a server nearby doesn't hold up. If you look on any forum, there are australians and europeans complaining how this screws them over even more. Matchmaking will "find the lowest ping" but if there aren't enough of them playing they will get thrown into a game in america and have 500+ ping.

I have nothing against matchmaking, they say they want to streamline the game for casual players, well... BF2 had a button that threw you into the nearest server with low ping and no mods AND THAT GAME HAD DEDICATED SERVERS!!! There is no reason to take dedicated servers out other than wanting complete control and more money by forcing you to buy DLC.

Oh yeah, there's going to be more hackers than before because there will be no server admins now. You can't kick/ban anybody anymore and you have to wait until VAC acts.

[Chako]

maybe with over 90,000 people playing they cant afford the bandwith... hmm

[JoeFu]

What are you talking about? Gamers set up and supported their own dedicated servers, this has nothing to do with bandwidth.

[lazygecko]

JoeFu nailed it. There is absolutely no reason why dedicated server support shouldn't exist as an option along with matchmaking. It's all about control and money.

Since paid DLC was introduced this generation, some publishers have found themselves at odds with modders and map makers (and developers who have traditionally offered free extra content for their games). Microsoft have already made sure to block these things on the 360 by regulating the hell out of Xbox Live. So far the PC market has been relatively free from this bullshit, but if anyone was bound to try and kill modding culture, of course it would be Activision.

Valve doesn't do it. Epic doesn't do it. Not even EA does it. Instead they officially support and promote it. And EA have already scored free PR points by having Dice state the opposite of what Infinity Ward said for the upcoming Battlefield on PC.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'm not arguing anything, i'm just stating stuff

Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster, what are you, 12?

[Wina A. Kamlongera]

Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster, what are you, 12?

Oh snap, now the "argument" has gotten serious. We just done called in the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

JoeFu, not to nitpick but some guys have 'presented' points against and for your 'argument'/'statements' (not including me, I've been talking shit the whole time)

DLC happens to still be an excuse to ship incomplete games. But, DLC is a viable business model because casual (and some hardcore) gamers eat it up. How costly would implementing both systems be? Also, does this not allow a possibility of say 360 vs PC gamers matches (or am I looking at this wrong)?

It seems as hardcore gamers we have become really good at complaining and getting petitions started.

Aeris...petition

L4D2...petition

MW2...petition

What? A slimmer Mario...we can riot when that happens...

[Power Smoothie]

Oh snap, now the "argument" has gotten serious. We just done called in the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

JoeFu, not to nitpick but some guys have 'presented' points against and for your 'argument'/'statements' (not including me, I've been talking shit the whole time)

DLC happens to still be an excuse to ship incomplete games. But, DLC is a viable business model because casual (and some hardcore) gamers eat it up. How costly would implementing both systems be? Also, does this not allow a possibility of say 360 vs PC gamers matches (or am I looking at this wrong)?

It seems as hardcore gamers we have become really good at complaining and getting petitions started.

Aeris...petition

L4D2...petition

MW2...petition

What? A slimmer Mario...we can riot when that happens...

PC vs 360 cross-platform multiplayer was included on a couple of games for windows live games, but although it's possible to be implemented, it mostly hasn't even been touched. It's a shame, really.

[lazygecko]

Cross-platform multiplayer will not happen because players with mouse and keyboard would completely steamroll those who play with gamepads. This has already happened in UT3 PS3 which supported mouse and keyboard, where those players would find themselves kicked from the servers.

That said, I predict CoD8 PC (if it's even released on PC at all) will disable mouse & kb support for an "equal" experience.

[JoeFu]

And the dude telling me to get a ps3... shut the fuck up, i have one. I use it to play games like Demon's Souls, you know, stuff that makes the system worthwhile, not FPS's. I play fps on pc because mouse and keyboard completely destroys dual analog.

Do you guys have no standards? This is a company screwing the fanbase that they released their original game on.

There is no positive outcome for taking away dedicated server and activision and inifinity ward will do nothing to make it as good of an experience.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PETITION. I DIDN'T SIGN IT, I DON'T CARE FOR IT, I KNOW THEY DON'T WORK. I NEVER ONCE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT A PETITION. THIS IS ABOUT ACTIVISION AND INFINITY WARD.

THIS IS ABOUT A COMPANY THAT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE 2MILLION PLUS THAT BOUGHT COD4. I get it, 2 out of the 14 million that bought cod4 doesn't seem like much, but to completely try to take away the staple of online pc gaming especially for fps's doesn't do anything for the community.

Let's take TF2 as an example. You like ocr guys, so you hop on the ocr server. You know that when you get on that server the regular guys you play with will be on there. You guys have a bond, joke around, bring up stuff from the forums, maybe even talk about the music.

You like playing custom maps with player limit raised, you like goofing off, you go play on 2fort2furious.

in MW2 you don't get to experience any of that. You will play with random people and you will not be able to form a bond, or anything unless you add him, he adds you and you decide to play together sometimes. It's not the same.

They are taking everything that people love about PC gaming and trying to turn it into a console watered down experience.

[Schwaltzvald]

Cross-platform multiplayer will not happen because players with mouse and keyboard would completely steamroll those who play with gamepads. This has already happened in UT3 PS3 which supported mouse and keyboard, where those players would find themselves kicked from the servers.

You have to admit, gamepad players at that time made bots look good. No fun smacking around the useless if they can't put up some resistance.

Hey JoeFu add me on ur PS3 friend list.

Also did you see my DOOM Showcase thread?

[Wina A. Kamlongera]

Was gonna say the same about the friend list.

JoeFu, sorry if you took my petition thing the wrong way. It was just me poking fun (though I do feel us as gamers have become spoiled).

I get your frustration but when the greater amount of grievances involve the dedicate servers as the source, something will be done for the 12 million. Yeah, the idea does suck but will you not play the game because of this?

We don't know if they'll do nothing to improve the experience. That's simply disaster talk. Hell, if you don't like it, you'll just stick to MW (1), right? Some dude's bound to make an MW 2 mod for the first game as a response to this.

Am sure you'll find ways to enjoy it. Change happens, man. In all types of games. It's hopeful, maybe even naïve, but the game could be better for it.

[sephfire]

There is no positive outcome for taking away dedicated server...

Yes there is.

"We're just prioritizing the player experience above the modders and the tuners," says West. He points toward the mounting feedback IW has received from PC fans of Modern Warfare who couldn't find a decent server to play on between all of the cheaters, the insular communities, and huge skill level disparities that the original game's community fractured into. "We thought maybe it would be cool if the fans could play the game," he laughs.

The question is whether or not that positive outcome outweighs the negatives of eliminating dedicated servers, which is debatable. I can see how this new system might significantly improve the online play experience for a lot of people. For a lot of PC gamers, though, it's probably not worth the cost.

None of us are really in a place to make broad judgments until we see more about their matchmaking system.

Also, please try to chill. I know you're frustrated, but it's coming off less like "righteous anger" and more like "adolescent nerdrage."

[Bahamut]

I'm not arguing anything, i'm just stating stuff

An argument doesn't necessarily mean you're bickering. One standard definition is that it's stating a claim or series of claims.

I get the things that you've been saying, but...you're pitting the experiences of the relatively meager hardcore with the general masses at odds with each other. Most people have been disenchanted with playing games online - hell, I even dislike playing with people I generally don't know because of the relatively high frequency of encountering a fuckwad. Nobody says you can't play a game with friends though - that's generally what friends lists and such are for, which I'd be almost certain the game would support.

The mods thing though I do think is a problem, but it's clear that IW decided the need to make online gaming enjoyable to more people for an overall more positive experience for more people trumps the view of the hardcore/elitists for good game design for general appeal. I would also dislike the lack of ability to admin a server as well. However, I'm not going to be so disillusioned as to not even acknowledge that there are good reasons for what they're doing by not acknowledging fundamental problems in game experience.

[Schwaltzvald]

Was gonna say the same about the friend list.

JoeFu, sorry if you took my petition thing the wrong way. It was just me poking fun (though I do feel us as gamers have become spoiled).

I get your frustration but when the greater amount of grievances involve the dedicate servers as the source, something will be done for the 12 million. Yeah, the idea does suck but will you not play the game because of this?

We don't know if they'll do nothing to improve the experience. That's simply disaster talk. Hell, if you don't like it, you'll just stick to MW (1), right? Some dude's bound to make an MW 2 mod for the first game as a response to this.

Am sure you'll find ways to enjoy it. Change happens, man. In all types of games. It's hopeful, maybe even naïve, but the game could be better for it.

What exactly are these grievances placing dedicated servers as the source for said grievances..?

I don't see how irrational it is to not buy a title that is more likely not worth one's time versus finding another that is enjoyable. Similar to how I would NEVER buy a Dell PC and just build one myself; Main point being finding an alternative...

Change is always in effect, however its blind to who it benefits. Most rather steer it where it makes sense rather than stupidly hurt others and vice-versa.

One cannot make a mod emulating dedicated servers with all the tools needed for a server admin, that's just silly if not outright ignorant to think otherwise; unless you feel Hamachi would be a viable solution?

Patronizing others also makes you look douchebaggy unless you've got an established presence around here; even then not many can pull that off without the stink wafting off of them.

[Wina A. Kamlongera]

What exactly are these grievances placing dedicated servers as the source for said grievances..?

I don't see how irrational it is to not buy a title that is more likely not worth one's time versus finding another that is enjoyable. Similar to how I would NEVER buy a Dell PC and just build one myself; Main point being finding an alternative...

Change is always in effect, however its blind to who it benefits. Most rather steer it where it makes sense rather than stupidly hurt others and vice-versa.

One cannot make a mod emulating dedicated servers with all the tools needed for a server admin, that's just silly if not outright ignorant to think otherwise; unless you feel Hamachi would be a viable solution?

Patronizing others also makes you look douchebaggy unless you've got an established presence around here; even then not many can pull that off without the stink wafting off of them.

My bad. I didn't mean make a mod emulating dedicated servers. I simply meant a mod to give the game the aesthetics of the other.

It's perfectly fine if he finds an alternative, I simply felt here we are complaining yet we had not tried the game. What if it did turn out enjoyable?

Is not most of the unwieldly experience taking place within the context of dedicated serves?

Point taken. However, I did not mean to come off as patronizing. Rereading my post, I can see how that would be the case though.

[Schwaltzvald]

My bad. I didn't mean make a mod emulating dedicated servers. I simply meant a mod to give the game the aesthetics of the other.

It's perfectly fine if he finds an alternative, I simply felt here we are complaining yet we had not tried the game. What if it did turn out enjoyable?

Is not most of the unwieldly experience taking place within the context of dedicated serves?

Point taken. However, I did not mean to come off as patronizing. Rereading my post, I can see how that would be the case though.

Care to be more clear on that first part? "Make a mod to give the game the aesthetics of the other?" What do you mean?

JoeFu and many others are perfectly free to make their concerns about a potential purchase known. Chances are if it's truly enjoyable, they'll come around. Until then it's skepticism hardcore.

Dedicated servers, assuming the admins/owners are a competent/sociable lot, can provide the best experience out there compared to L4D's/any other game's match making services. Certain servers would know their regulars, who are capable of enjoying themselves and booting the assholes who have nothing better to do but ruin the experience of the majority.

[Wina A. Kamlongera]

Care to be more clear on that first part? "Make a mod to give the game the aesthetics of the other?" What do you mean?

JoeFu and many others are perfectly free to make their concerns about a potential purchase known. Chances are if it's truly enjoyable, they'll come around. Until then it's skepticism hardcore.

Dedicated servers, assuming the admins/owners are a competent/sociable lot, can provide the best experience out there compared to L4D's/any other game's match making services. Certain servers would know their regulars, who are capable of enjoying themselves and booting the assholes who have nothing better to do but ruin the experience of the majority.

Ah, right. I mean in terms of matters like weapon skins, how different game mechanics handle, etc (am obviously no modder). It wouldn't be the same but they would still have the dedicated servers. Just to give the game a 'new' shine so to speak.

Okay, taking that final point into consideration, would monitoring or limiting the number of dedicated servers be an option? Or that's just too costly/complicated?

Fair enough over the concerns matter. Just to digress a little, does writing stuff in caps scream concern or more? XD

[Schwaltzvald]

Ah, right. I mean in terms of matters like weapon skins, how different game mechanics handle, etc (am obviously no modder). It wouldn't be the same but they would still have the dedicated servers. Just to give the game a 'new' shine so to speak.

Okay, taking that final point into consideration, would monitoring or limiting the number of dedicated servers be an option? Or that's just too costly/complicated?

Fair enough over the concerns matter. Just to digress a little, does writing stuff in caps scream concern or more? XD

Modified weapons/character/object skins are usually the norm when it comes to modifications, unless a team making a mod-game have shit resources but that's another story. Some times mods are not even for aesthetics at all but for refreshing the gameplay, perhaps even improving said gameplay.

Dedicated servers are already monitored freely as those that make one choose to take up the responsibilities. Those that neglect them will find their servers quite empty at times/regarded as, "that shit pub's just like all the other shit pubs".

Writing stuff in caps usually helps emphasis the importance of a particular word. Unfortunately people still regard it as some one yelling when there's no exclamation marks to accompany it.

[JoeFu]

Yes there is.

The question is whether or not that positive outcome outweighs the negatives of eliminating dedicated servers, which is debatable. I can see how this new system might significantly improve the online play experience for a lot of people. For a lot of PC gamers, though, it's probably not worth the cost.

None of us are really in a place to make broad judgments until we see more about their matchmaking system.

Also, please try to chill. I know you're frustrated, but it's coming off less like "righteous anger" and more like "adolescent nerdrage."

The pr bs that iw want people to think is not a good response. Taking modders out is not a positive. Saying that the p2p will cut out cheaters/hackers is false. I've read stuff about vac. They usually take a while to act, and even when they do, they block the hack/cheat not the player. So since there is not an admin, hackers will have an easier time griefing and whatever.

peer 2 peer is not a solution. again there will be lag, check out kill cams, there's usually lag on console games, when I played it on the pc there was no lag. Host advantage is another thing.

Also with the news I canceled my pre-order. There are better games more deserving of my money that treat the pc better than iw.

There is simply no positive from taking out dedicated servers completely.

also more stuff.

I have read what IWnet is going to be all about and whatever. There will be friend lists, there will be "clans" still, there is going to be a thing called party where you move from room to room together. So people saying this will help cut off stacked teams will again be wrong. If teams were too outmatched, there was always a scramble team option in games with dedicated servers. Now you see a stacked team? too bad for you, either quit game or deal with it.

[Wina A. Kamlongera]

Modified weapons/character/object skins are usually the norm when it comes to modifications, unless a team making a mod-game have shit resources but that's another story. Some times mods are not even for aesthetics at all but for refreshing the gameplay, perhaps even improving said gameplay.

Dedicated servers are already monitored freely as those that make one choose to take up the responsibilities. Those that neglect them will find their servers quite empty at times/regarded as, "that shit pub's just like all the other shit pubs".

Writing stuff in caps usually helps emphasis the importance of a particular word. Unfortunately people still regard it as some one yelling when there's no exclamation marks to accompany it.

COOL. THANKS.

Okay, I think I've derailed the topic.

Now, taking everything into consideration, I get the frustrations (not fully but I get them). This paves the way for DLC as a few guys have mentioned, but can that work on the PC as well as it does for consoles? Meaning, what stops any of you or me from seeding maps that are released as part of the DLC?

Then I guess the question becomes, would it not have been 'nicer' (for lack of a better word) for IW to make a sort of Santa's list to direct casuals to servers that they would feel 'at home'?

[Schwaltzvald]

COOL. THANKS.

Okay, I think I've derailed the topic.

Now, taking everything into consideration, I get the frustrations (not fully but I get them). This paves the way for DLC as a few guys have mentioned, but can that work on the PC as well as it does for consoles? Meaning, what stops any of you or me from seeding maps that are released as part of the DLC?

Then I guess the question becomes, would it not have been 'nicer' (for lack of a better word) for IW to make a sort of Santa's list to direct casuals to servers that they would feel 'at home'?

DLC has gone way out of hand if it goes deep into PC Gaming. DLC on PC games traditionally mean it's free, unless its an expansion pack such as Opposing Forces/Blue Shift ect. DLC as we see on the consoles is practically non-existent as most of the mods and extra stuff are either provided freely by mod communities or by the creators (usually as fixes or enhancements).

Unless a website can not provide bandwidth to host content such as mods/maps there wouldn't be any restrictions to using bitorrent technology or even websites dedicated to hosting files like Mediafire. Certain servers usually give out addresses to the owners website, especially communities dedicated to the game. They usually have servers provide the content by having you download them as you try to enter a server.

With all that taken away, you may as well go play on your 360/PS3 as it's the same thing only restricted and worse.

[Necrotic]

I'm not usually so up in arms about stupid bullshit like this, if it was most other companies I might give them the benefit of the doubt, but it's Activision and I know what they're trying to do because it's their M.O.

I despise matchmaking, it doesn't resolve anything but people will defend it anyways for some retarded reason. Hackers still hack, abusers still abuse, 13-year-olds are still 13-year-olds. It contributes to more lag too. I like to support communities and play with familiar people, on their servers, on their terms, with their own set of forums, and hang out. That's an aspect of online gaming that I absolutely hate losing. And it's competitive. Some communities will pick up the slack of others that suck and try to make a better experience with constant moderation and a good set of sportsman-like values. Then you bookmark that server and become a regular because you LIKE going there. It's that simple. Matchmaking just bundles you up with whoever the fuck it feels like with no sense of consistency. What value is there in that? What is there to defend about that?