*NO* Xenogears 'June Mermaid' *RESUB*

[OceansAndrew]

Original Decision: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23538

Remixers: Avaris, Nutritious, Skrypnyk, OA

Avaris new website: www.sonic-elements.com

The song was remastered from the last submission and is slightly longer than the project version.

Here is a basic breakdown of the arrangement and usage of the original's themes and motifs:

Normal Chords: A A#

Mix: A G A# or A A# G (switches depending on sections to provide variation) (newer chords features lots octaving and strings parts to add a thick soundscape)

Piano Arp: E -> F -> D motifs are still there (some are rearranged to fit new chord structure; this is an expansion from the original structure)

Breakdown: G -> A motifs in original still present; adds in D note in places to provide expansions

Melody: Tempo is slowed down in the mix for a more down tempo feel from 80bpm to 60bpm. This makes the melody take on a different tone. The picture, linked below, shows the original melody in orange at the bottom and the arranged melody in all of the other colours. The only notable omission from the original melody is the ostinato at measure 14. Due to the tempo change and addition of the G chord into the structure this motif clashes with the rest of the arrangement.

http://www.sonic-elements.com/images/june_mermaid.png

Thanks,

Shaun

[DragonAvenger]

EDIT: I reworked this vote after reading the other's comments.

I've been looking forward to judging this, so lets see what you guys have cooked up. This is a very dramatic mix that holds a lot of emotion. There are quite a few aspects that give the mix its feel. First off, slowing down the tempo adds a more reflective feel, along with the backing strings. The instrument combinations are nice, and the guitar and drums add a bit of a raw edge that really works overall. The melody and chord changes are actually fairly subtle, but nice. I personally do like how you've incorporated the source into this, but overall it is very sparse. There isn't enough in here, and the lack of the B section is kind of a shame.

There is a lack of bass that makes this a little top heavy, and the drums have some nice patterns, although overall they are sounding a bit strange with the effects on them.

I personally do like the track for what it is, but it's not enough for a pass here.

NO (resubmit)

[Palpable]

Really liking the arrangement, great combination of several different styles to create something atmospheric, powerful, unique. (Little, yellow, different.) I think I will need some help on the breakdown before voting on this, I'm finding it hard to get my head around how the source was used. I can tell each iteration of 0:42-1:01 follows the melody, but then the second half of the melody (1:01-1:13) sounds new. Then you've got 2:31, which sounds similar to the arpeggios in the B-section of the source, but is only used some of the time. Honestly, right now, it's looking like this is too liberal, but I'd like a more detailed, section-by-section breakdown before voting. Wanna give me one, OA?

[OceansAndrew]

My involvement of this track:

First I played an A powerchord.

Then I played an A# powerchord.

Finally, I played a G powerchord.

Clearly i am carrying this collab, and These Avaris and Skrypnyk scrubs should be thankful to be touched by my brilliance.

[Jillian Aversa]

http://www.sonic-elements.com/images/june_mermaid.png

OooOOOOoooooh, purdy culerz... We R juggez, dur! :B (hehe jk)

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Okay, here's a more detailed source breakdown:

The chords are not all that different at first; instead of A and A#, they are A A# G or A G A# as was pointed out in the submission letter. At 0:24 when the soft cymbal taps first come in, you can hear how the original source melody would fit over what they have, but they leave in only hints of it with the piano. 0:41 is when the arranged melody first comes in, which you can compare in the linked png: it starts off with an added A, then the pitches are pretty much the same but the rhythm is augmented and diminished here and there to vary it up. So far, I would say this is close enough to the original for one to hear the connection pretty easily.

The second half of the source melody (0:25-0:53 in the original, then 1:17-1:30) is omitted in the remix, however. To me, that seems like a bit of an oversight.

Then at 1:52 in the remix, the section that corresponds to 1:31-2:06 in the original begins. I'm not sure if this is what they were referring to as the "breakdown," or if they meant the part from 2:25-3:04. Both seem loosely based on 1:31-2:06 in the source, but I don't hear the G > A > D arpeggiated motifs in either part; the arpeggios are completely different, although there are G and A chords in there. Definitely a very different vibe overall, and a significant departure from the original.

At 3:05, the variation on the first half of the original melody comes back in until the end.

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So yeah, overall I'm thinking the arrangement is too liberal after all. If they had done something with the source melody from 0:25-0:53 in the original, that could have made up for the substantial departure on the other section with the G > A > D arpeggios. But when you combine both of those things, you basically end up with only a third of the source present in the remix - and I just don't think that's enough.

Production comments:

- The drums sound weird in this, like... tinny in that 80s kind of way, but not quite. The pattern is also rather slow and uninteresting.

- There is a weird sudden increase in volume at 2:00. It jerks up in the middle of a held D in the strings. Did somebody miss an automation point there?

- The panning in the percussion makes me feel unsettled, having the kicks in one ear and the snare in the other. It's too unbalanced IMO.

- Bass could be louder as well.

On the plus side... I like the instrumentation used overall, aside from the awkward drums. The intro is pretty mysterious and cool, and I do get a similar mood from the source and arrangement.

NO (resub if you're passionate about working this one out)

[Palpable]

Not sure why Vinnie thinks it's too liberal, no offense to him. I hear the connection easily.

Can you break it down for me, Jill? Pwease?

[zircon]

The intro is definitely weird. While the piano and strings are fine, when the drums pick up it simply sounds awkward, as someone else put it last time. It doesn't sound good. The harmonies are too sparse, the drums are plodding, the doubled melody with trance synth doesn't sound good, and overall it just doesn't work. Once the guitar comes in and things get heavier, I can hear how the elements are supposed to glue together, but even there, the slow piano arpeggio with bell + trance lead over heavy drums and guitar simply doesn't sound good to my ears. It's like this mix is really lacking a focal element.

The following section is begging for some kind of lead, but instead it just has meandering, blocky harmonies and arpeggios. Ultimately, it doesn't go anywhere. As the drums build back up, it's just more mishmashed, blocky string and horn chords. Why? Putting so many dense harmonies in the low registers doesn't sound good. So much of the texture and writing is weighted lower in the frequency spectrum, while the high strings are going almost constantly. The climax feels identical to the earlier section, like it was just copied and pasted, and the ending is a copout. There are few elements that help the piece transition from one part to another.

The original has a sad, lullaby-esque mood. It actually seems like the remix takes AWAY some of the more interesting chords and just adds all these weird, plodding progressions that don't go anywhere and have no 'drama'. Whereas the texture of the original supports the mood with quiet bass, synths and a music box, the remix seems to be stuck between an orchestral ballad and a rock track. The entire B-section of the original is, as far as I can tell, missing. Overall, all the parts I liked about the source are gone, and what's left doesn't really evoke any emotion at all. If you were going for an enhancement of the original mood/texture, tone down the guitar, switch to more electronic drums, and add more mellow elements. If you were going for a harsher mood, up the tempo a bit, add some synth/guitar solos and make it consistent. As it is now, I feel like the mix doesn't know what it wants to me and just falls flat as a result, in production and arrangement alike.

Sorry guys, but there are a ton of things that need to be fixed here before this can pass, IMO. You might be better off just starting over.

NO

[DarkeSword]

I'm inclined to agree with Andy here. This is really kind of slow and plodding. Lots of big blocks of slow harmonies, sustained strings, etc.

Percussion has a lot of detail, but I feel like the lack of a proper bassline really ends up exposing the kit, especially the kick drum. It's this big-damn-power kit playing over cellos; needs something to sync with in order to drive the piece; otherwise everything sounds lethargic.

Kind of at a loss on source usage in the second half; first part plays with enough. Gonna need a source breakdown before I can close out this vote, but I'm leaning towards a NO.

[Jillian Aversa]

More detailed source breakdown is in my above post!

[Palpable]

Yeah, I think my source breakdown jives with Jill's (rowr). Unfortunately, I gotta call this too liberal.

NO