OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!

[Bleck]

different things work at different relative skill levels in every game

that being said arguing about all this shit is a waste of time

[Nabeel Ansari]

yeah man nothin says defense like 3+ spies

Not defense... redirected offense.

And you fail to realize that when the remaining defenders are focused on a spy or two then that attackers can easily kill them while they're distracted.

[atmuh]

ive been playing the game a heck of a lot longer than you neblix i could go down the list of what you "fail to realize" but i really dont feel like it

[DarkeSword]

ive been playing the game a heck of a lot longer than you neblix i could go down the list of what you "fail to realize" but i really dont feel like it

So belligerent.

[The Derrit]

as far as sentries are concerned engineers shoot at anyone coming anywhere near their setup most times anyways you're not going to sneak up on them

[ParanoidDrone]

because when a spy is topping the scoreboard its almost always because hes backstabbing most of the people on the team that dont matter

sure there can be an instance when a spy will backstab a medic with an uber ready but the game is not won or lost by that one "big" backstab

its won by the big combat classes and the medic pushing and getting the kills on the opposing teams top players

a spy cant backstab 4 really good players in a row that are all right near each other because after the first or MAYBE the second the other two will realize theres a spy and either kill it or chase it off and the two survivors can then hold the team up while waiting for their teammates to respawn

a solid soldier scout demo or sniper CAN get those 4 kills and really make that jump for the team to push forward and ultimately win the game

Because Spies are renowned for their massive kill streaks. Right.

Even backstabbing a single Medic with full Uber pushes back the enemy offensive by at least a minute. A Sentry nest takes a couple of minutes to rebuild if you take one out. Spies are simply the class most able to penetrate enemy defenses in order to take out key targets like that.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Because Spies are renowned for their massive kill streaks. Right.

Even backstabbing a single Medic with full Uber pushes back the enemy offensive by at least a minute. A Sentry nest takes a couple of minutes to rebuild if you take one out. Spies are simply the class most able to penetrate enemy defenses in order to take out key targets like that.

Spies are to other team as proton torpedoes are to the death star.

[atmuh]

Even backstabbing a single Medic with full Uber pushes back the enemy offensive by at least a minute. A Sentry nest takes a couple of minutes to rebuild if you take one out. Spies are simply the class most able to penetrate enemy defenses in order to take out key targets like that.

ive got the global award for charged medics killed mostly because i played spy for a few weeks since dead ringer spy is just so dumb and i can tell you that most of those charged medic kills contributed next to nothing to the team actually winning and its absolutely no substitute for a decent soldier or demo pushing through

sentries are REALLY easy to take out now as more than one class just because spies can place sappers and take out the engineer if hes taking a nap doesnt mean anything

[Brushfire]

Remember when the Back Burner didn't suck?

[atmuh]

+25 max health

and in other news ive tried a zillion things and still cant see the cart glow

[ParanoidDrone]

ive got the global award for charged medics killed mostly because i played spy for a few weeks since dead ringer spy is just so dumb and i can tell you that most of those charged medic kills contributed next to nothing to the team actually winning and its absolutely no substitute for a decent soldier or demo pushing through

sentries are REALLY easy to take out now as more than one class just because spies can place sappers and take out the engineer if hes taking a nap doesnt mean anything

...

How did this argument go from "There are skills other than pure aim used in TF2" to "Soldier and Demoman are more effective fighters than Spy"?

Also I think you got the order backwards concerning the Sentry and Engineer.

[atmuh]

it was about the spy making an impact (it doesnt)

[Nabeel Ansari]

it was about the spy making an impact (it doesnt)

From reading this thread

1. You kill uber medics

2. You kill sentries

3. You take out snipers

4. You take out teleporters

5. You cause confusion

What do you count as an "impact" if none of that comes close?

[atmuh]

1. You kill uber medics

you didnt read what i said

2. You kill sentries

you didnt read what i said

3. You take out snipers

snipers, although being a class that requires a lot of skill, are just as useless as spies (unless its a lights on sniper like vg spud n death or whatever his name is, but he wears a razorback and is quite attentive to his surroundings)

4. You take out teleporters

devoting all or even a decent amount of your time as spy to take out teleporters with the way destroying sappers is now really is a waste of a player slot when you could have a combat class actually contributing by pushing the other team back and killing the teleporter as an afterthought

5. You cause confusion

who the heck gets confused because of a spy seriously

[ParanoidDrone]

From reading this thread

1. You kill uber medics

2. You kill sentries

3. You take out snipers

4. You take out teleporters

5. You cause confusion

What do you count as an "impact" if none of that comes close?

tl;dr Spies give the enemy a reason to worry about defending from within, as opposed to just the front lines?

[Aeronaut]

tl;dr Spies give the enemy a reason to worry about defending from within, as opposed to just the front lines?

Sounds about right.

[Kenogu Labz]

atmuh, your video on Hightower just scratches the surface. Gamemaster created something I'd like to call Kefka's Tower, replete with Light of Judgement, by exploiting that map and the Wrangler. Pics forthcoming.

[XeroZohar]

atmuh, your video on Hightower just scratches the surface. Gamemaster created something I'd like to call Kefka's Tower, replete with Light of Judgement, by exploiting that map and the Wrangler. Pics forthcoming.

This I gotta see.

[atmuh]

thats been done plenty of times before

[Nabeel Ansari]

you didnt read what i said

No I did and I think it's weak logic

you didnt read what i said

No I did and I think it's weak logic

snipers, although being a class that requires a lot of skill, are just as useless as spies (unless its a lights on sniper like vg spud n death or whatever his name is, but he wears a razorback and is quite attentive to his surroundings)

A Razorback works once, and most of the snipers I've backstabbed never bothered to wear one.

devoting all or even a decent amount of your time as spy to take out teleporters with the way destroying sappers is now really is a waste of a player slot when you could have a combat class actually contributing by pushing the other team back and killing the teleporter as an afterthought

Spies can push people back fyi

who the heck gets confused because of a spy seriously

"you didnt read what i said"

[atmuh]

youre talking about "logic" when im talking about actual in game experiences ive had time and time again

and if youre gonna say that what i said was weak logic dude youre saying spies throw teams into some crazy state of confusion guess what they dont unless youre the type of person that doesnt pay attention at all except then youre already in a crazy state of confusion so its no different

[Nabeel Ansari]

youre talking about "logic" when im talking about actual in game experiences ive had time and time again

and if youre gonna say that what i said was weak logic dude youre saying spies throw teams into some crazy state of confusion guess what they dont unless youre the type of person that doesnt pay attention at all except then youre already in a crazy state of confusion so its no different

Have you ever ignored a spy behind you?

IN maps like dustbowl where the entire team is rushing down a corridor with a big wall of rockets and guns if somebody shouts SPY BEHIND US I guarantee you are going to stop attacking and get rid of that spy. Those precious seconds (which one might think is really small) are all the defending team needs to push the attackers back.

tl:dr you look behind you for spy you get rocketed in the back.

Of course you can do for other classes, but everything one class can do another can. We really don't need any classes other than Soldier, Engineer, and Medic since they pretty much cover up the three categories of a team: Attack, Defense, Support.

EDIT: And I am speaking from experience when I've came at attackers from behind it threw their "impenetrable" attack wall apart and they were just dying from both sides.

[atmuh]

IN maps like dustbowl where the entire team is rushing down a corridor with a big wall of rockets and guns if somebody shouts SPY BEHIND US I guarantee you are going to stop attacking and get rid of that spy. Those precious seconds (which one might think is really small) are all the defending team needs to push the attackers back.

jump

spin to see if theres a spy heading towards you while midair

spin back in midair towards where you were heading in the first place if there was nothing behind you and keep attacking

takes less than a second and you dont miss anything

if the spy actually is heading towards you hes close enough that shooting him at most twice will kill him so hes paper thin

that takes about a second and a half which is no big deal

the players thatll actually chase a spy or look around for it when they have no idea where it is are generally the players that dont get how the game works

[Nabeel Ansari]

that takes about a second and a half which is no big deal

it's the same amount of time it takes for a rocket from behind to kill YOU.

[atmuh]

unless the soldier is right in front of you or hes actually fired the rocket before you turn (in which case you simply use the jump spin to also move out of the way), no it inst