Super Mario 64 - Through the Bay

[Tyler Gill]

Edit:

Once again, here's a new update. This has changed a lot since the original version, namely, the middle and ending sections have been flushed out, and its been recorded (almost) live now. More than anything, that makes it feel a lot more real. Critiques both good and bad are always welcome:

Most Recent: Through the Bay

--Original Post--

Well, I suppose this is as good a way as any to come out of lurking, as I've been hanging around OCR for a long time. And I've taken a few stabs in the past at writing music, and played piano off and on for years, but nothing ever really got too far out of the idea stage. But a few months ago, I got the idea for this song, and from there its made it into something I consider at least presentable.

The inspiration for this song is the Jolly Roger Bay level in Super Mario 64 - starting out on the beach, running around for a bit, and then jumping into the water, and eventually coming up in the cave (that parts still being thought out).

So, whats everyone think - is this close to OCR par, and if not, what do I need to work on to get it there? Whats good, whats not? (Though I know that the dynamics right now are non-existent in this version - when played live on a piano, and this should when its done, they are there. Sorry about that part.....if enough people complain, I'll go add them into the digital version)

Super Mario 64 - Through the Bay

(Sources, if anyone wants them. If you don't recognize these songs, I'm sorry :

Mini sources (used a bit):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jQRGLoiiek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntlQpNRfst4

Thanks for the feedback!

-SuperSlacker

[XZero]

The first thing I have to note is that it's too loud. You need to soften it a bit.

You've probably heard "Pearl Song," a piano remix of the same piece that we already have here. If not, definitely check it out so that there's not much overlap.

I like the direction you're going with the combination of the various tracks. I think the Dire, Dire Docks theme could afford to be a bit more pronounced; as it stands, you hit it for a bit, but never really get through the whole thing before deviating. I don't know if that makes any sense because I'm not musically inclined, but I do like the source and I'm enjoying your mix of it. Someone else could surely tell you about the OCR quality requirements better than I could. I'll just say to turn it down and to keep working on it; I think you're on to something!

[panzi]

It would be completely awesome if it wouldn't be so horrible clipped.

[Tyler Gill]

Thanks a lot for the quick responses!

I fixed the lots of clipping issues, and reuploaded. I'll keep working on the arrangement for a bit to get the rest fixed up, but thanks for the tip on more of the docks theme - its been my inspiration for all the rest, so I hear a lot more of it in there than others do I think, and don't want to just copy all of it. I'm working on an extra bridge or two to put into the first section, and then incorporate it more in the next parts.

And to anyone else that runs into this, is the arrangement too simple, or is it ok the way it is now? Production-wise, I know its got a long way to go, but I don't want to mess around a ton with those settings too much until the arrangement sounds good.

(Slightly) updated version:

http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=899

[Tables]

I love piano things!

First of all the meshing of the Mario theme and the Dire Dire Docks theme in the beginning is incredibly clever and awesome. However, I do sort of think the transistion (or lack of thereof) into the section at 1:00 is just a little bit sudden. I think if you just extended the last note a little longer before you moved onto that section it might sound more natural. Other than that, I don't see a lot wrong with this besides, of course, the length. We want more and we want it now! Ha ha ha

Oh and I'm no help when it comes to productiony things but it sounds alright to me if that matters. Oh and I'd totally advise you to add the dynamics stuff, you might as well go all the way with this!

[Calum]

First of all the meshing of the Mario theme and the Dire Dire Docks theme in the beginning is incredibly clever and awesome.

I'd have to agree, I think that's a little stroke of genius there!

You could certainly open it up to new instrumentation or style but if you plan on keeping it just piano, possible ideas for extention of the dire dire docks theme may be:

call & response left hand & right hand section.

One time round stating the original melody to remind us.

You could have a slower section playing only chords in the left hand instead of the flowing accompaniment that it has throughout.

Key change?

Tempo change?

change of time signature?

Perhaps to re-echo the mario theme/dire dire docks thing, as you have played a little motif from the mario theme in the dire dire docks calm style, you could perhaps thing about playing dire dire docks in a more upbeat mario theme-like style or include more little mario motifs in your calm arrangement!

Keep it up. Can't wait to hear this finished.

[Scrap McNapps]

Well it's been established that the meshing of the Super Mario Theme and Dire Dire Docks is creative and I find works well. I also feel like it would make for a good ending. The transition @ the 1:00 feels kinda weird though. If it sounded a bit more "calmer" in sense it would work out better I would think.

Keep it up!

[Tyler Gill]

Well, a million thanks all of you for that feedback - it makes a great motivation to keep working and finding time to piece this together.

Link

Here is an updated version of the song, though to start off I'll admit there's still several things I want to change up pretty substantially, which don't sound right to me right now, but its late and so I figure might as well put this up and see what looks good and what needs more work.

XZero & Calum: Good calls. I'm trying to stick some more of the Dire, Dire Docks theme into several places, though that still needs some more polish, so that it doesn't sound forced. I also experimented with a bit of a faster section (really short right now) to see if how it would fit - does it sound ok? Fast isn't quite my forte I think. In the next few days I'll try to stretch that part out, and blend it a bit less abruptly with the next part.

And hopefully I'll be able to get a live demo recorded soon to see how much better that version sounds. Thanks again for your feedback!

[Calum]

The slight adjustments to the melody at around 0:45 and 0:50ish, the slight rhythmic change feels kinda forced to me and I'd leave it to the original perhaps. Though that's just my opinion. Also the fast section following this sounds quite unnatural for two reasons:

1. it sounds like it would be impossible to play or atleast very problematic as you have the 5th in the middle of the piano (presumably the left hand) and then the right hand running around but you also have this lower note being played at the start of each bar which makes it sound unnatural and I don't believe you'd be able to play that.

2. the constant 5ths sound like they would work on a guitar but it's a weird technique to use for piano I find. It just sounds quite strange. So perhaps write something more flowing in the left hand, it can still be exciting but in this way you can include the lower bass note and the other fifths and whatever other notes you want and it might sound more "piano"y. If you don't like this idea even changing the open fifths (I think most of them are) to full chords would sound far more realistic.

The transition at 1:26 or so is still quite strange. I reckon you could rack your brains and find a way to smoothly run into that, if not you should take off the ending notes of the phrase and instead just stop on the chord before moving onto the next section as it sounds like you just copied and pasted the left hand then started a new section. If it sounds like it has ended then it will flow better, I believe!

I'm not sure if I've explain myself very well, but I hope this helps!

Keep working on it!

[Nabeel Ansari]

Very surprised this hasn't been mentioned before:

This piano sample is bad, along with the sequencing. It sounds very stiff and robotic.

The meshing of the super mario theme 1:10 has bad harmony, you might want to take a look at that.

[Calum]

The meshing of the super mario theme 1:10 has bad harmony, you might want to take a look at that.

I disagree, I think it fits. The little mario theme isn't particularly diatonic so the changes you'd make to make it "fit" with the harmony of the dire dire docks at 1:10 would make it not the super mario theme.

The piano sample isn't the best, though I'm not one to give tips on the production/tech side of things.

[Tyler Gill]

Well, Neblix, you called me out on the poor production - I'm working on that. I know the sample is pretty low quality, and I haven't put too much effort into that part yet, mainly because I'm planning on recording this live once its ready (I can play it, I just haven't taken the time to go and record it yet....), so for the moment I guess that's the thing I should get going on, huh. The next update with be a live recorded one, I promise.

And I kinda apologize about that last update - Calum, you are absolutely right, some of those parts were kinda forced in. Thats what I get for trying to write music at midnight, and expecting it to sound good. So I'm getting those arrangement and production issues fixed, and see how it turns out. There are tons of ideas floating around my brain, but they seem to disappear or not exist on piano when I try to start playing. Gimme a few days and I'll get a more fluid version out. Thanks again for the feedback! As long as there's critiques, it means theres something to do.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I'd have to disagree with you on that, Calum. I think it sounds a bit disturbing, but that's my opinion.

[Tyler Gill]

Long time bump. And to go with that, here's the most recent update! As promised, this is a recorded version, which took a while as I didn't know my university had an open piano lab. Wish I could have figured that out sooner. Anyway, while I don't think the quality is perfect on this version either (it was recorded on an electric piano, not a real one), I don't think its nearly as bad as it was before.

So this update has had some major overhauls in the arrangement of the second half as well, which I think work a lot better than the last few version I posted. This recording isn't perfect, but it conveys most of what my ideas are at the moment. I still plan on recording (and/or doing some minor editing to make) a more perfect version before submitting, but what are the thoughts on where it stands now? Does the quality sound ok? Recommendations? More powerful dynamics? Does it need more variety in the bass? Thanks again to anyone that gives this a listen.

Link

[TheReverend]

It's no wonder I missed this mix; It was originally posted before I started trolling....errr....browsing the WIP forums.

There aren't a ton of piano only mixes on this site, but the ones that are here are quite notable. I think this one will be too. There's a lot going on in this mix.

The Bad:

Although later I give you good marks on the inclusion of the original Mario tune at 1:10, I can also see why some would feel it wasn't well harmonized or found it too dissonant. Personally, I think it's fine, but perhaps a minor tweak in the running notes on the left hand might alleviate this complaint. Again though, I must echo my thought that this is a very minor qualm. I very much enjoyed that part, and I think the dissonance adds some flavor and tension to it. This is more a "mixed" thought than a "bad" one.

I don't know if it's something you can easily rectify in your recording process or your production process, but there is just a slight hiss/noise in the background. It's hidden during the performance, but if you're listening for it you can hear it during the soft/silent parts. Really, this is being about as nitpicky as I can get, because I'm grasping for straws at things to critique. This is a good thing though, because it means there's not a bunch of WTF moments in your mix.

The Good:

The mood is soothing and mellow, but it gets exciting at parts, so mega kudos for this. It like Chicken Soup for the Soul, only in a song.

Technically, the playing is great. No glaring rhythmic inconsistencies, no inadvertent pounding of keys. This comes across as well rehearsed and refined. Kudos. (I envy you and all other piano players).

I actually enjoyed the original Mario theme you inserted at 1:10. At first listen it sounded like too much dissonance, but after listening again I think it is quite tasteful and adds some definite originality to your tune. Keep this!

I almost thought it had ended at 1:33, and I was disappointed. But now you enter a much more "valse" style, or something like that (in my defense, I'm not much of a music theory savant). But I think this change in style also adds credibility to your remix's originality, and there's plenty of your own variation on the source materials here. Bravo.

Other thoughts:

This is promising. I was never around for the "raw" versions you posted last year, but hearing this mix definitely gave me positive feelings about it. I did take the time to review it and all.

[aeolus]

This is nice! I'm not even worried about it not turning out amazing. As for the "Mario theme" part, I like it, but I don't really like the part right at 1:16. Maybe take out the (1) te te 3, and put some little run or something instead...

And I just have to say that I swore I heard "Kakariko Village" in there, lol

[M249-M4A1]

This sounds so pretty and calm, like it should be (unlike mine haha).

I really like that Mario theme stuck in there and the originality coming at around 1:40. My only concern is that it seems to lose it's Dire, Dire Docks-ness from that point up to 3:00. It's not much of a problem, but while listening to this I had forgotten what the song was

If you re-connect Dire Dire Docks half way through (around 2:30) then it wouldn't seem to lose its touch (that's just my opinion).

Other than that, this is superb! Can't wait to here more

[Tyler Gill]

Well, thanks everyone for the feedback so far - I've been looking at some of these issues and will try to record a new version in the next few days if I get the chance (things have gotten kinda hectic for me at the moment.)

@aeolus - Glad you like it! And I took a look at 1:16 - do you think replacing it with a little 1up type motif would work? (It seems to fit for me, I'll put it in next time I record this and see if that sounds better). And where exactly did you think you heard Kakariko Village? I didn't try to put it in, but I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if I subconsciously slipped something from it in. There are a few other source tunes I tried to incorporate stuff from though too, see below.

@M249-M4A1 - For that middle section (1:40 - 3:00ish), I was originally trying to draw a bit from the original Mario's underwater theme - kinda like the main theme in the first bit. That's where the underlying chord progression there came from, and the melody is (mostly) drawn from the second section of Dire, Dire Docks (the part where the chord progression changes there too), though I did add a few notes in and change the rhythm around. I guess maybe a bit too much. I'll see if I can make it a bit more recognizable though - cut out some of the new notes and try to draw out the original melody and rhythm. But I also don't know if pointing that out makes that section a bit more recognizable or not - if not, I'll work on drawing that bit out.

Thanks for the feedback, and I'll see if I can get another version of this out soon!

Edit:

Slightly updated version. Changes: A few tweaks, mainly a few extra measures with a closer representation of the source's second melody in the middle section. Here's the link:

http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=1130

@aeolus and M249-M4A1 - Does this address what you were referring too enough? Or should I rework it more drastically to make the original melodies stand out better?

[docnano]

This is nice! I may have missed the earlier iterations. I like the piano sample and your use of phrasing. The ending is particularly delicate and beautiful.

My biggest single gripe is probably the chord around 1:07. The dissonance there stuck out as somewhat ugly to me.

You could also change up the left hand a bit more, filling out the chords with some eighth notes here and there. As it is, the bass chords sound plain -- like a blueprint more than a finished product. This would also help keep the third minute of the song from dragging, as I feel it currently does (slightly).

Enjoyable listen as it is though, nice work!

[M249-M4A1]

I'm really hoping that you're still working on this song! I can't wait to hear the update(s)

[Tyler Gill]

Well, it seems I'd better get around to posting an update, eh? These last few weeks have been really busy, and finals are this coming week, but I'll see if I can get an updated version of this shortly. From the sound of things, what I need to work on is adding some variety in the bass, and in my opinion, fixing the volume and leveling a bit. I'm not quite sure exactly when I'll get a chance to get it worked out, but don't worry - I haven't forgotten this.