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Movies are entertainment. Films are art. Masterpieces are both.


Nintendude794
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Do people still consider Inception to be a masterpiece? Talk about plot holes... The entire movie was one giant plot hole... A giant plot hole within a dream, within a Taco Bell, within - well, you know the rest.
name them

what bothered me the most about inception was how everyone was like "durr its so complicated! i didnt get it at all!". these are the same people who think watching a movie = making out with your girlfriend with noise in the background.

...but uh, i didn't catch any plot holes. i didnt think it was some intellectual mind bender, either, but it was a fun thriller.

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I loved both inception and shutter island. neither seemed that complicated or filled with complicated at all. a couple of my favorite movies, along with Pixar stuff. But who doesn't love pixar movies?

I haven't seen anything new and good lately... I use to be on top of movies but I'm kind of falling behind. I wanted to see Tron but I never got around to it. For some reason I find it difficult to make it to the movie theater, and I don't watch all that much TV - Either I have something going on or I decide I'd rather chill and play some games, listen to music, or even read a book.

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Inception didn't have any plot holes that I've noticed, but that's not what really makes it great. There were two things I saw that made it incredible:

  • If you were paying even the slightest bit of attention, you will walk away thinking. Christopher Nolan has an incredible talent for making movies that leave you asking questions for days afterward, most of which won't directly tie into the plot, but are inspired by logical consequences from it. The Prestige was another one that fits this bill well (though that one's much harder to full grok the first time around. That movie would also make it into the list of masterpieces. In fact... Christopher Nolan seems to be full of them. Here's hoping he keeps going strong!)
  • Inception also set up a framework: a system which could easily be built onto, either with more films, novels, games... there are so many directions this could go. He chose to focus on one scenario, leaving further development of the structure to others. What happens in the dreams of the mentally unstable, slow, or the savant? Speaking of savants, could there be savants who manifest bizarre effects in dreams? Can people be killed from within a dream, and could it set the stage for the perfect murder? Are there more rules to Limbo than we've seen, or does everyone have a 'real estate plot' to use as a sandbox in the collective unconscious? So many possibilities to explore, and all with the potential to create powerful stories and moral dilemmas.

These alone make it a masterpiece, IMHO.

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Do people still consider Inception to be a masterpiece? Talk about plot holes... The entire movie was one giant plot hole... A giant plot hole within a dream, within a Taco Bell, within - well, you know the rest.
name them

what bothered me the most about inception was how everyone was like "durr its so complicated! i didnt get it at all!". these are the same people who think watching a movie = making out with your girlfriend with noise in the background.

...but uh, i didn't catch any plot holes. i didnt think it was some intellectual mind bender, either, but it was a fun thriller.

Please do, name one such plot whole, anybody. I bought the Best Buy-exclusive Triple Pack (DVD + 2 Blurays + Digital Copy) w/ Shooting Script and watched it 5 times in 8 days. Found no such issues with the plot. Did find a couple quibbles about Memento - Nolan's other masterwork - though.

I agree 100% with RDX: to a majority of people, movies in the theater are just background to their foreplay and makin' out an' whatever else.

If nothing else, Inception's definitely at least a fun thriller.

Inception didn't have any plot holes that I've noticed, but that's not what really makes it great. There were two things I saw that made it incredible:

  • If you were paying even the slightest bit of attention, you will walk away thinking. Christopher Nolan has an incredible talent for making movies that leave you asking questions for days afterward, most of which won't directly tie into the plot, but are inspired by logical consequences from it. The Prestige was another one that fits this bill well (though that one's much harder to full grok the first time around. That movie would also make it into the list of masterpieces. In fact... Christopher Nolan seems to be full of them. Here's hoping he keeps going strong!)
  • Inception also set up a framework: a system which could easily be built onto, either with more films, novels, games... there are so many directions this could go. He chose to focus on one scenario, leaving further development of the structure to others. What happens in the dreams of the mentally unstable, slow, or the savant? Speaking of savants, could there be savants who manifest bizarre effects in dreams? Can people be killed from within a dream, and could it set the stage for the perfect murder? Are there more rules to Limbo than we've seen, or does everyone have a 'real estate plot' to use as a sandbox in the collective unconscious? So many possibilities to explore, and all with the potential to create powerful stories and moral dilemmas.

These alone make it a masterpiece, IMHO.

Totally, definitely. I do believe I heard Nolan or Warner Bros. or perhaps some other fan of his say he wouldn't ruin the masterpiece with a sequel. If anything, he has expressed his interest in exploring further his Inception universe through the wonder of interactive entertainment. That is, a video game.

Half of me says "WTF IS THIS CRAP?" but the other half is "HOLY CRAP WOW, HE THOUGHT OF ALL OF THIS...AMAZING."

It was basically Shutter Island, which is a steaming pile of crap.

iHaveYetToSee Shutter Island, but I've heard two things:

1) "Dude, it's amazing"/"You'd love it"/"You need to see it"

or

2) More like SHITTER ISLAND

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Do people still consider Inception to be a masterpiece? Talk about plot holes... The entire movie was one giant plot hole... A giant plot hole within a dream, within a Taco Bell, within - well, you know the rest.

If you consider unanswered questions plotholes, try to understand that they were intentional. Rest assured, there's no question any of us can ask which Nolan can't answer.

Inception is somewhat an experiment, a test of what the audience can handle. Based on the gross revenue thus far, a majority of us absolutely love drawing our own conclusions with our own perspectives.

SPOILER ALERT: The end is what the rest of the movie calls reality. I put it that way because for all we know, "reality" could simply be dreamstate/dream-layer 0; the movies are in fact giant dreams spit up on to the screen in a tangible form. Anyway, the point is, I have proof - a solidifying clue, thanks to actor Michael Caine in a snip of an interview I read - that the end is real. He said, "I never appear in any of the dreams. The end is real because I'm there [to welcome Cobb home]." The top on the table still spinning but starting to stutter is just Nolan playfully screwing with us and our inferior brains all the more.

The scenes that give me tearful chills are all the flashbacks with Cobb's wife, and the top still spinning at the end. It's just the perfect ending, so beautiful. I guess the reason this movie also gets me somewhat emotional is because of the circumstances in which I saw it over the summer, but that's a longer story.

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The only thing I know 'bout that one is that Thomas Newman scored it. Think he got nominated for it. Parents won't let me see that one yet, I don't think.

Wait what, really? Just reading through this thread, you seem quite mature and intelligent. You could definitely handle American Beauty!

It was quite a good film. And it's my roommate's favorite of all time. She's much more of a movie buff than I am, so just passing a suggestion along.

Avatar was beautiful, but its plot was nothing groundbreaking. It was just an enjoyable sensory experience, especially the first time; it's one of those movies you really really needed to catch in the theatres though. If it didn't go around touting itself as the best darn movie ever, I think people wouldn't be so critical of it.

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Wait what, really? Just reading through this thread, you seem quite mature and intelligent. You could definitely handle American Beauty!

It was quite a good film. And it's my roommate's favorite of all time. She's much more of a movie buff than I am, so just passing a suggestion along.

Well, thankye! I'll ask again soon. Tonight, we went through my parents' DVD drawers for movies I haven't seen and got out about 40 - to watch this year. We've got a system of deciding which ones to watch next which involves each of us rolling up to four dice. First in line are:

1) Total Recall

2) Gladiator

3) Sweet Home Alabama

A few others we set out include the likes of classics from Never Been Kissed to Saving Private Ryan, so it's a pretty wide range of movies I haven't seen. There're dozens more we don't own that I also need to see though.

And once we're done with these I haven't seen which we own, perhaps American Beauty will have made its way to Netflix's streaming service. :)

Avatar was beautiful, but its plot was nothing groundbreaking. It was just an enjoyable sensory experience, especially the first time; it's one of those movies you really really needed to catch in the theatres though. If it didn't go around touting itself as the best darn movie ever, I think people wouldn't be so critical of it.

Plot, nothing special; setting, eh, maybe. Definitely one that if you missed its theater-run, you missed it. If Fox didn't brag so much about the money it made, yeah, more people might like it better.

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concerning inception: two off of the top of my head

1. it was pretty convenient that zero gravity only transferred down one level

2. it was also pretty convenient that there were only apparently four levels of dreaming and the fourth one just happened to also be limbo

perhaps I misunderstood; I only saw it once

1. I'm pretty sure change in momentum gets propagated down. If you're driving down a roadway, your momentum is constant, and therefore no motion occurs. In the next level down, you may feel the effects of a momentum shift as a gravity shift, but unless your momentum on that level is shifted (AKA it causes you to move), it won't propagate to the next level. Violent momentum shifts also act as kicks.

2. They were able to go down at most three dream-levels with the sedatives they had. That worked well for their goal, since, as seen, Inception needs about that many layers to make the idea seem self-generated. Limbo is pretty much 'collective unconscious' dream-space where anyone can make changes. Think of it as a giant sandbox. The story touches on it and how you can end up trapped in it, but the rules governing it (such as time-scale) are still a bit of a mystery. We can infer some basic rules from what we've seen in the movie (such as the fact that anything made in Limbo remains, even when the dreamer wakes), but there's much more to explore.

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concerning inception: two off of the top of my head

1. it was pretty convenient that zero gravity only transferred down one level

2. it was also pretty convenient that there were only apparently four levels of dreaming and the fourth one just happened to also be limbo

perhaps I misunderstood; I only saw it once

Nolan writes the rules, the story just plays by them. If he had to detail absolutely every little rule, there'd be no fun in it.

But here are a couple the movie didn't explain too specifically:

1. Apparently, zero-gravity only affects the next layer of dreaming; see what Kenogu said in regards to momentum, that's what I mean to say.

2. Apparently, there's no sedative powerful enough to increase the number of dream levels between reality and limbo; as Kenogu adds, "...that they had access to".

Ya kinda see what I mean?

One question I had recently was: "How did they all wake up on the plane not being hooked up to the PASIV shared-dream device?"

But as a human being, I have the ability to concoct a rational (however irrational Nolan's concept) answer based on the established rules the film makes us aware of.

"The stewardess was assisted in detaching it from everyone by the first person who woke up; later, when DiCaprio and Watanabe come up through from limbo, it's already put away." Nolan has a better, more accurate and thorough answer, but that's mine. As for how Cobb and Saito were communicating in subconscious even without the PASIV device, the brain is a powerful mystery that no body yet fully understands, so Nolan might say "They were exchanging brain waves to each other for that final exchange in limbo [before shooting themselves to wake up]."

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well I'd watch it again

but I'd rather watch batman begins

which by the way in my opinion is better than or equal to the dark knight

i wish you didnt say it was your opinion because i wanted to challenge this statement but now i can't

speaking of classics, assassination bureau and the pink panther are both awesome old school flicks. though im sure everyone already knows pink panther, given the crappy reboot from a few years back (it's probably more than that now)

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batman begins is good, but it drags on too long and nothing REALLY exciting happens until near the end.

If this were facebook, I would "like" this comment; but it's not, so I will use this statement as a way of showing that I agree instead. ;)

I only saw Batman Begins once: in the theater. Sure, it was probably total bliss to my ten-year-old self, but The Dark Knight seemed to mature as much as I had in the years between. It was more complicated, yet more beautiful and elegant (at least for a movie of its kind).

Regardless, we're certainly all excited to see if TDKReturns blows us and the first two away.

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This is all that Space Jam wished it was and couldn't measure up to.

I think there was once an SNL sketch which claimed Kazaam was proof of Shaq's links with the Taliban. It made twisted sense, and I thought it worth mentioning.

Anyway, my film of choice for the entertainment category is Kill Bill Vol. 1; for the art category either Blade Runner or In The Mood For Love; for both, Goodfellas every time.

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I think there was once an SNL sketch which claimed Kazaam was proof of Shaq's links with the Taliban. It made twisted sense, and I thought it worth mentioning.

Anyway, my film of choice for the entertainment category is Kill Bill Vol. 1; for the art category either Blade Runner or In The Mood For Love; for both, Goodfellas every time.

On his commentary, Darabont said Goodfellas was a huge inspiration to him as he was writing an' directing Shawshank; I oughtta check it out.

Really wanna see Blade Runner.

Kill Bill, eh, maybe. After Inglorious Basterds, I might make an effort to check it out.

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Dragonball Evolution.

rofl

anyway I've seen the dark knight well over 20 times and the thing of it is, when compared to batman begins, there's just too much crappy super-cheesey dialogue coupled with lackluster acting

for example the scene where dent batman and gordon are all on the MCU roof together makes me cringe every time I watch it now

granted ledger and caine did set the bar very very high

edit: also the next flick is going to be titled 'the dark knight rises' iirc

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