Garian

League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

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What do you guys think of Zac currently? From a kit and skillset perspective, I love his design, but I can never seem to get to a point where I feel like I'm doing good with him, I have really bad games, or games where.. I'm doing okay.. but almost never do I have a 'good' game with him.

Tips? Advice? I mainly keep to the jungle when I play him.

the best play i've ever seen a zac make was where he survived a big fight in an aram with almost no hp and was the last one alive. he took out a tower, charged up a jump, and sailed over the newly respawned enemy team into their fountain, posting "IM OUT NERDS" in allchat. he got a turret death instead of a player death. brilliance in game form.

of course, the fact that it wasn't a meaningful play says something.

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Oh man, best birthday ever. I've played 3 games today as Cait, all of which were wins. The third game was maybe the best game I've ever played. The teams were...

Cait (me), Lee Sin (jungle), Kayle (top), Syndra (mid), Alistar (supp)

vs.

Quinn (ADC), Yi (mid), Rammus (jungle), Poppy (top) and Leona (supp)

Within the first 10 minutes, Rammus had gotten about 5 successful ganks in, while our Lee had none. Top and mid both died early and bot was tied at best. Then, around 12 minutes in, Syndra went AFK for the rest of the game. We quickly got a few towers pushed down and were ganked brutally even more. Our Kayle raged hard.

Rather than give up, I ignored Kayle and assured the team we could still win. A slick play at bot and suddenly I get a triple kill. We put up some stalwart D, despite various people getting ganked / caught out of position multiple times, and despite losing another couple towers. Something incredible begins to happen - I have only one death, but I keep getting kills. My farm goes over 200, then 300, then nearly 400. After 30 minutes or so, I'm nearly maxed out (IE, LW, Shiv, BotrK). My positioning is perfect every teamfight and I wear down even their extremely tanky Rammus and Leona in seconds.

By 45 minutes, I'm totally maxed with a Zephyr + GA on top of that other stuff, plus all potions. Every time they try to push with 5, we smash them to pieces and get more of their towers, or objectives. At best, they get our midlane, but we get theirs too. Finally, they go in for one last push and get torn apart - all but Quinn (who was, at one point, 11-1) die, we waltz down mid lane, facetank their Nexus turrets and win. Of course, not before Syndra reconnects literally 15 seconds before victory.

My final items:

Infinity Edge

Blade of the Ruined King

Statikk Shiv

Last Whisper

Zephyr

Guardian Angel

My final score: 18/2/7 in 47 minutes, with 394cs, 21.8k gold, and 7 turrets destroyed.

I just can't get over the fact that we won this. It was literally a perfect setup for defeat - rager teammate, AFK within 10 mins, lots of early deaths and enemy ganks, early towers down, etc. But it was as perfect example of how playing REALLY well, ignoring ragers, staying positive, and being a leader can turn any game around, even one as (seemingly) lopsided as this one.

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My final items:

Infinity Edge

Blade of the Ruined King

Statikk Shiv

Last Whisper

Zephyr

Guardian Angel

wher yer boots nub

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Haha, if you are THAT built and you really need the extra stats (which I did), selling boots for Zephyr is the way to go. Compared to Zerker greaves you only lose about 20 ms total - not very significant - but you gain tenacity, 30% extra attack speed, 25 AD, and 10% CDR. IMO a very good trade for 20 ms.

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i played a game as skarner once where we dominated them so i sold all my items and bought six different boots, claiming SIX FEET SIX BOOTS.

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I tried a couple of games as skarner and was terrible at him. I'd rather pick Nautilus or Vi over him anyways.

Grats on the games Zircon. Always fun to get your favorite role.

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he definitely isn't as good now as when he came out. just like udyr, he struggles against loads of cc.

lots of fun in dominion or aram though!

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It seems like for any junglers or bruisers you really need 21 into defense for the survivability and extra tenacity. Is that accurate?

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i run vi 21-9 out of the jungle consistently. in fact i rarely run 21 defense out of the jungle - even mummy i use 9-0-21. bruisers, it depends on their role, i guess.

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For me it depends on the champ. I usually run 21-9 with Vi, because I wanna carry all the games. With j4 I can either run 21-9 or 9-21, depends on the team I got. If I got a bunch of squishies i go 9-21 and hope my team is decent enough. With Sejuani I always run 9-21 because She's not about the damage anyways, she's all about getting in their face and cause havoc while not dying.

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So I've just got into LoL, and I do have a background in original DotA. I'm level 12 right now and am working on getting good with Nocturne. Before him I bought Anivia and also played some vladimir...

If anyone is around my level and would like to play just let me know and I can add you :)

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It seems like for any junglers or bruisers you really need 21 into defense for the survivability and extra tenacity. Is that accurate?

I am by no means a great jungler, but I rarely roll 21 defense. The survivability is great at level 1, but Im not ganking till level 4. Let me be Vi, and I'll come in flash and charge outta the jungle. people are toast anyway.

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Any advice for a newbie jungler?

If you are low level, invest in the Tier 1 runes. They will help you adjust to the rune system, are dirt cheap, and above all other roles, the jungler needs as much of a boost at Level 1 as you can muster. That being said, avoid the Tier 2 runes like the plague -- they cost too much relative to the benefits they confer.

If you are high level with a set of Tier 3 runes already (which should be a priority once they become available), my advice is to be opportunistic in your ganks -- don't go out of your way too often or you will fall behind on farm. After wraiths, get mid lane; if the timing isn't right, don't wait, just keep on cycling.

Lastly, one of the best things to do in the jungle is get vision of the enemy jungle so you can catch the other jungler at low health as they take red / blue buff. Consider buying an extra ward or two for this purpose, and call for assistance from the relevant lane when you spot the opportunity.

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noc's great at nailing that out-of-position top early on, but beyond that his ganks can be underwhelming until 6. just keep that in mind, and focus on getting XP wherever you are. mid's going back? sit in lane and last hit a bit. top's pushed? get in their jungle and grab wraiths or wolves.

characters like fiddlesticks and diana are the same way - they can get ganking kills before six, but it's usually because of something stupid that the other person did rather than a good play. they're just very item/ult dependent.

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he gets demolished by cc and is rendered irrelevant until late game by a few wards. stuncopter is fun to play but there are a lot better picks.

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I think Udyr is still pretty strong overall. With the new Defense tree he gets another 15% CC and he is very disruptive. The issue is just that newer junglers are too good. Vi and Zac are ridiculously strong and have insane leaps/jumps and can cause similar levels of disruption. Zac in particular is insane with initiation from fog of war. I think if you have someone else on your team with a leap or gap-closer, he does pretty well. For example if you have Xin, Malphite, Lee Sin, or Shen, they can initiate and he can just run in and ruin everyone's day.

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Udyr is pretty weak. His ganks are among the worst when it comes to junglers. He has some uses late game as an inmortal stunbot, IF you're ahead.

The only way his ganks work better for you is if you can't land skill tackles from the likes of VI, J4 or Sej.

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is rendered irrelevant until late game by a few wards.

to be fair this can be said about any jungler that isn't zac

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