Ramaniscence Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 YOU'RE NOT LIVNIG IN THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT, YOU'RE LIVNIG IN THE FOREST OF FEELINGS it's funny because it's true. anyways, archimonde and illidan? which do you play on more often, and which faction? I've been teterrng between both pretty evenly. Except daytime play is more Archimonde nighttime play is more Iliddian, and I'm horde on both. Tauren on Ill, Troll on Arch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Well.. 1.8 will introduce 4 more outdoor raid bosses as well as even more high end content. Soon enough we're getting another 20 man and another 40 man instance. So I think ultimately there will be a lot to do. 20 and 40-man instances? What? Maybe the system is simply that different, but...how do you coordinate 40 people? Coming from GW, where the maximum team size is 8, and it's hard enough coordinating just that few (what skills you have in comparison with others on the team, what specific classes do we need, what's our strategy, and all). But how on earth would you do that with 40 people? Or are characters in WoW that much more independent from one another? (note, this isn't a gw vs. wow post, I'm simply very curious to see what's on the other side of the fence) Obviously, it really only works if you have a full guild. When we are arranging a 40 man instance run, we post a signup and have a designated time. We also all get on Ventrilo. But 40 man is really nothing in the grand scheme of things.. if I recall, EverQuest had 100+ man raids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleazyC Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Go go Lineage II 500 person raids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Yeah.. but to some extent those fights are kind of dumb. In WoW, EVERY person in the 40 man raid has to be doing a job, at least until you are very skilled/geared up, at which point you can be a bit lax (until you get to the next boss, or next raid area, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleazyC Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Yea but I just love how epic some of the battles look even though it could just consist of you slamming on a couple keys. As far as 40 man raids in WoW right now. All the way up to Domo in Molten Core is a pushover. 20 people could be seriously playing and you can still breeze through the instance. BWL is actually an instance where one person can wipe a whole raid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Yea but I just love how epic some of the battles look even though it could just consist of you slamming on a couple keys. As far as 40 man raids in WoW right now. All the way up to Domo in Molten Core is a pushover. 20 people could be seriously playing and you can still breeze through the instance. BWL is actually an instance where one person can wipe a whole raid. From what I understand, L2 raids to a lot of strategy, especially castle sieges. My friends played it for quite sometime before they switched to WoW. At which point they did because the guild they were in created an alliance, overthrough the guild that was basically running the server, and after they had done that there really just wasn't much else to do. That, and the grind to the max level took an incredibly ridiculous ammount of time... ..and one of them got banned for saying "eBay". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Yea but I just love how epic some of the battles look even though it could just consist of you slamming on a couple keys. As far as 40 man raids in WoW right now. All the way up to Domo in Molten Core is a pushover. 20 people could be seriously playing and you can still breeze through the instance. BWL is actually an instance where one person can wipe a whole raid. From what I understand, L2 raids to a lot of strategy, especially castle sieges. My friends played it for quite sometime before they switched to WoW. At which point they did because the guild they were in created an alliance, overthrough the guild that was basically running the server, and after they had done that there really just wasn't much else to do. That, and the grind to the max level took an incredibly ridiculous ammount of time... ..and one of them got banned for saying "eBay". gimme your names on Archimonde and Illidan so i can find you faghat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Cox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Yeah.. but to some extent those fights are kind of dumb. In WoW, EVERY person in the 40 man raid has to be doing a job, at least until you are very skilled/geared up, at which point you can be a bit lax (until you get to the next boss, or next raid area, etc). Yar. It's kinda cute when you see random Joe's guild #234 rant rave that "we killed Ragnaros 234,024 times, so we're good to clear Blackwing Lair" when they don't have a damn clue what they're getting into. With the introduction of Dark Iron gear, killing Ragnaros totes as much weight for e-p33n purposes as saying you killed Arugal solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Eh. Maybe on your server. On mine, the first Horde rag kill was not even a month ago. Only three Horde guilds have done it to date, and my guild has been trying since we formed (a little over two months ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Cox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Eh. Maybe on your server. On mine, the first Horde rag kill was not even a month ago. Only three Horde guilds have done it to date, and my guild has been trying since we formed (a little over two months ago). Um, sorry, but Ragnaros doesn't change difficulty based on server. He's nothing more than a glorified Lord Kazzak; the only difference between the two is your tank needs Fire Resistance gear for Ragnaros and you have to deal with his Sons (wow, 6 mobs that die in 5-10 seconds each to 40 people). In the end it's just a race of massive DPS burst by the Rogues, and success is measured by whether they remember they have a "Feint" ability or not. Pat yourselves on the back for doing Majordomo Executus with ease, no Ragnaros. Most of the guilds that are just NOW getting to kill Ragnaros are going for massive fire resistance gear on *everyone* in the raid, whereas only the tank need as much as possible. 120-150 after buffed on the Rogues and Warriors, as much as possible on the main tanks, and 50+ on the rest of the classes. Guilds go for this massive hunt for gear for everyone and spend months doing this, and then when they get to Ragnaros realize all the work was for naught because they end up needing more and more DPS/Healing gear than FR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 We've tried it three times now with MTs having over 300 FR and we have failed miserably - wipe before phase 2 at 75% or so. It is a hard fight. It's easy to look back on it and say "oh, that was so easy" AFTER your entire raid is geared up with MC weapons and armor, and after you've collected tons of cores to get the DI stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Cox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 We've tried it three times now with MTs having over 300 FR and we have failed miserably - wipe before phase 2 at 75% or so. It is a hard fight. It's easy to look back on it and say "oh, that was so easy" AFTER your entire raid is geared up with MC weapons and armor, and after you've collected tons of cores to get the DI stuff. None of our tanks have more than 2 pieces of DI gear. Their FR is over 300 because of the UBRS mind control buff as well as librams and other gear. Secondly, the only classes that have more than 4 pieces of ANY Molten Core gear are Druids since we only have 4 and Cenarion drops regularly. Stop assuming we're geared out the ass. "wipe before phase 2 at 75%" is ambiguous. What are you dying to? The Sons themselves, or few people left alive after he submerges? If most of the raid is dead before Phase 2 then it's a problem with you healers, their positioning, and people that are NOT Rogues ripping hate and not backing off. If they're not using Greater Fire Protection potions, they should -- 2.5K absorbtion (roughly) goes longer on this fight than a Major Mana/Health pot will. The pot mats are dirt cheap and the absorbtion lasts 60 minutes; you can put one on before battle and wait until your timer is up again before engaging. Whether or not you killed him doesn't mean he's hard. He isn't and that has nothing to do with the fact that my guild has killed it; if your people pay attention and do their job (and Rogues don't forget they have a damn Feint) you have him in the bag -- the practice is just to nail it down. None of the bosses in Molten Core are (except Majordomo *before* you could Polymorph the Priests...); it's a dungeon that's designed to get people used to working together in a 40-man team to prepare them for the truly hard dungeons later on. If Ragnaros was "hard" you wouldn't even have gotten him beyond 99% if you've only had three attempts. (On a separate note, hopefully you aren't killing him JUST as Majordomo summons him -- he's fucking PISSED then and I don't know of any guild kills him then since it's not worth the hassle. Usually you have 39 people log off on the © island, the 40th person naked and sacrifice themselves after talking to Majordomo, and then everyone logs back on in 2-3 minutes.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 When I say we die before phase 2, I mean we die BEFORE the sons are spawned. People just get wiped out by the lava splashes. What we're doing is saying that all casters need 100+ FR unbuffed, rogues/non-MT warriors need 150 at a bare minimum, and the MT's shamans need 200+. Really, the MT has no trouble keeping aggro, and he doesn't die. It's simply that people are getting destroyed by the splashes over time. We haven't tried this with consumables yet - we want to see if we can get him down to about 40% before the second sons spawn. I haven't heard about the pissed thing. We just take him right then and there, pretty much. Also, the reason why I assume you are geared is because all the guilds on my server that killed him were quite geared when they did so. The people that hit every MC/onyxia in my guild have about 5-6 pieces each, for example. Savage Fury, who got the first Rag kill for Horde, had even more than that (per person). Of course, those players also have PVP epics, reputation epics, crafted epics, and so forth and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleazyC Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 On my server the first Rag kills starting roll in about 2 months ago, which is very behind ball. Like zircon said most people were decked out in FR gear when they downed him. I know the first Horde guild to down him was rocking 200-300 FR depending on each person. So far my guild is mainly wearing 1-2 craftables from TB and we have got him down to about 60ish on our best attempt. It all is an experience game really. The fight seems to be a lot about positioning so on nights where we are killing Garr we usually run over to the area where Rag is fought and practice positioning for a good 30-45 minutes. Don't know if it helps but it wouldn't hurt to make sure everyone knows where they are going, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Cox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Nah, we have some items per person from Azuregos and Lord Kazzak (we dominated the spawns for about 4 months) and we DO have Molten Core gear, but there's not a lot of equipment per person. I'd say, on average, we've got 4 epics per person on JUICE and that's including all slots and PvP rewards as well (Alterac, Arathi, etc.). A lot of our best people are still in blues. We also have close to 90 people altogether in the guild as well. Try the Greater Fire Protection pots (1 Crystal Vial, 1 Elemental Fire, 1 Dreamfoil); they're cheap, the mats are easy to get (best place for Elemental Fire are the Burning Exiles in Arathi Highlands, Dreamfoil = Un'Goro) and most people will use 2-3 per Ragnaros attempt. That's 7K absorbed *PER PERSON* on the raids. And yes, it absorbs the lava bursts as well, and if you don't get hit by his RSTS (BY FIRE BE PURGED!) that's usually 3 bursts on average you'll absorb per pot. This alleviates a lot of aggro from the healers and they can in turn put DPS on Ragnaros as well with wands. If your MT doesn't have problems holding hate and ranged DPS don't get a tons of bursts (crits from mages, Shadowbolt crits, etc.) then that basically means you won't really need heals until 1:30-2:00 into the fight -- that's a LONG time to be DPSing and a shitton of mana saved by not having to heal. The only advice I can really give, without being there in person, is that the MT engages Ragnaros for 5 seconds, 2nd MT engages and after 5 more seconds everyone else engages and go full-throttle without being fucking retarded (you know what I mean). There are three 'key' places you can stand where the half-walls are on the C-Island; Usually we put MTs + their 4-6 healers on the one closest to Ragnaros, groups 1-4 spread out along one wall, groups 5-8 on the other, and melee stand close to Rangaros, then just jump/swim through the short lava to land at his back to cut-time and start engaging when it's called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2005/ft051009.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2005/ft051009.gif nice. anyways i got my computer back up and running. grinding has become severely painful at level 47. and i officially hate ZF now after failing 3 times in a row at the executioner troll zerg. i think that whole encounter is bugged, because there is literally an endless supply of those damn trolls. we can hold em off for 10 minutes or so, but eventually all the NPCs will die and the trolls will break through and begin slaughtering us. no matter how many you kill, more spawn to take their place. we even killed one of the bosses (Nekrum Gutchewer or something he's called) and HE respawned seconds after. we also killed the shadowpriest and his corpse disappeared immediately afterwards so we couldn't loot it. bugged all to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2005/ft051009.gif nice. anyways i got my computer back up and running. grinding has become severely painful at level 47. and i officially hate ZF now after failing 3 times in a row at the executioner troll zerg. i think that whole encounter is bugged, because there is literally an endless supply of those damn trolls. we can hold em off for 10 minutes or so, but eventually all the NPCs will die and the trolls will break through and begin slaughtering us. no matter how many you kill, more spawn to take their place. we even killed one of the bosses (Nekrum Gutchewer or something he's called) and HE respawned seconds after. we also killed the shadowpriest and his corpse disappeared immediately afterwards so we couldn't loot it. bugged all to hell. It is a 10 minute encounter with about 100 trolls. But if the NPCs died, you fucked up. They can't die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Cox Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Sounds like someone was on the steps of the temple, so the monsters never took their 'breaks' between waves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 no, we were behind the NPCs, trying to do as much AoE as we could. they came in waves of 4 or 5 for the first minute or so, but after that it was just a complete zerg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 yeah i don't know anybody who's done it since the latest patch. like i said even the bosses were respawning after we killed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Cox Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 no, we were behind the NPCs, trying to do as much AoE as we could. they came in waves of 4 or 5 for the first minute or so, but after that it was just a complete zerg. If you're behind the NPCs and you're all dying then something's wrong. The NPCs are elite, and 99% of the monsters in the waves are NOT, so you're essentially wiping to 4-5 non-elites at a time. At most you'll see 5 elites throughout the entire encounter (not including the 'boss' at the end of the runs). AoE is never the answer in WoW unless it's a *finite* group of monsters in a solid pack -- the ZF event is a staggered spawn cycle. Have the tank focus on one monster at a time, and everyone else assist him (with an " /assist PlayerName Here " macro); it's required later on in the game so people may as well start getting used to it in Zul'Farrak. The NPCs will heal themselves occassionally as well as heal your team, but still focus on keeping them alive mostly otherwise the quest at the bottom is null and void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGX_Anji Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Anyone considered forming an OCR guild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Eh. Most people here are in established, high-level guilds on other servers. Btw, PATCH DAY! Lots of cool new stuff. Can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnowhathuh Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Bah, can't connect. Guess they still messing around with the servers for the patch. Took me 3 hrs to get that patch done, good old dial-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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