OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming

[Newt]

The same reason you'd buy any console. Obviously no one except the most hardcore fanboy is going to buy a 360 or PS3 for a single game, but the expectation is that more stuff like Mercenary Kings is going to come out for Ouya and make the purchase worthwhile. Also notice that they haven't announced an Xbox release yet so currently Ouya is the only way to get it on console.

Everything I've read indicates that people buy a console precisely for a single game. Then they maybe pick up a couple others.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I've never said anything about developers NEEDING Ouya over the PC (DaMonz said that, and went too far with that).

So shut up about it. I was never saying that you said it, I blatantly said that I was talking about DaMonz's statement.

Again, PC is not a console. No matter how much you try to argue it is, its not.

God is real. No matter how much you try to argue he's not, he's real. (you see how that works, dude? It doesn't. That's the point.)

A console is a stripped down PC with skilled marketing and execution, dude. Nothing more.

Platforms however, are extremely popular on computers (Limbo, SMB, Rayman Origins). While I agree that controller is a superior option, there is nothing "uncomfortable" or "akward" about playing a platformer on a keyboard. Its just not as fast/precise, but computer-specific platformer games are generally tweaked that it doesn't matter as much.

wait a minute...

Point is, stop taking your opinions on PC vs. Console as some type of basic facts about life. They're video games. Video games are an art, and art is subjective.

Stop taking your damn personal preferences and video game ideals and trying to pit them against actual points about marketing and business (the two things that actually matter in a company start up) concerning Ouya.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Neblix

[Ramaniscence]

I used to be interested in this thread but you guys have made me so incredibly uninterested it's ridiculous.

Is there a market? At least some, obviously, people paid for it. I'm interested in it.

Is there developer interest? At least some, obviously. We'll see where it goes.

Is it a computer? Pretty much, don't care much for labels either way.

Are controllers better than keyboards? FUCK if I know. I'm pretty sure that's a personal preference.

Have Neblix, Crow Bar Man, DaMonz, The Derrit made points? All kinds of points with bullets, italtics, underlines, and tomatofaces.

Will the Ouya fail/Get completed/be a huge success? Who the fuck knows. I'm sure as hell not a fortuneteller or a financial analyst, or even a journalist in the industry, and as far as I know neither are you guys otherwise you'd be posting on some big media site with numbers and charts and shit and not arguing on a forums.

Are we going to change anyone's ideas? Sure doesn't look like it.

I'm glad we understand that.

I'd be fine if it was like...respectful discussion, but it's really just getting into speculation, opinions, and just generally a one-upping back and forth

PS: Sephiroth could easily take on Cloud, Link, Kirby, Master Chief, Solid Snake, Bowser, King Hippo, and Thrall at the same time.

[Nabeel Ansari]

and just like that, sanity and sense returned to the thread

[Crowbar Man]

Ramaniscence pretty much is on point.

The only thing I can figure out why Neblix/Derrit are getting so fired up is because somehow they think me pointing out basic definitions is saying one is better than the other.

I clearly just said people have different preferences. But they aren't willing to accept anybody has preferences different than their own.

At this point its not even rejecting Ouya, its just rejecting the entire concept of console gaming itself.

Clearly, nobody must of bought consoles. Ever.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Nabeel Ansari]

At this point its not even rejecting Ouya, its just rejecting the entire concept of console gaming itself.

Clearly, nobody must of bought consoles. Ever.

I am convinced you are dense.

[EC2151]

And here I thought I'd only hear the LOL Y NO PC CONSOLETARDS argument on /v/.

[DaMonz]

I used to be interested in this thread but you guys have made me so incredibly uninterested it's ridiculous.

Is there a market? At least some, obviously, people paid for it. I'm interested in it.

Is there developer interest? At least some, obviously. We'll see where it goes.

Is it a computer? Pretty much, don't care much for labels either way.

Are controllers better than keyboards? FUCK if I know. I'm pretty sure that's a personal preference.

Have Neblix, Crow Bar Man, DaMonz, The Derrit made points? All kinds of points with bullets, italtics, underlines, and tomatofaces.

Will the Ouya fail/Get completed/be a huge success? Who the fuck knows. I'm sure as hell not a fortuneteller or a financial analyst, or even a journalist in the industry, and as far as I know neither are you guys otherwise you'd be posting on some big media site with numbers and charts and shit and not arguing on a forums.

Are we going to change anyone's ideas? Sure doesn't look like it.

I'm glad we understand that.

I'd be fine if it was like...respectful discussion, but it's really just getting into speculation, opinions, and just generally a one-upping back and forth

This. So much this.

I recognize I got carried away. My temper gets shortened by a lot when I argue about stuff that's very important to me. I'm sorry for being a dick the other day

And that game Mercenary Kings looks really awesome! Can't wait to play it!

Edited September 9, 2012 by DaMonz

[Dhsu]

The question is sustainability.

What has Ouya done to market itself to the throngs of people that don't read gaming websites that A)don't already have 3 or 4 devices in their home that can do what Ouya can or B)are even interested in playing a game like Wizorb or other indie games in the first place? I haven't really seen what Ouya has done to build any sort of hype on mainstream channels. Is this thing going to be at Walmart? What's the message they'll send out that'll tell people they really need to get one? You guys are all talking about technical issues which in my mind as a salesman are virtually useless if I can't figure out how get this thing into as many peoples' hands as possible.

And Dhsu, the key to effective competition a la Sony vs Microsoft vs Nintendo is differentiation. While there are many multi-platform games and services, each company has a different approach to utilizing many of their services as well as a wide range of exclusive titles you can't get anywhere else. If Nintendo didn't pump out quality software like your Zeldas or your Marios, we wouldn't give 3 shits about 'em. If Microsoft didn't have an absolutely stellar online experience vs Sony's PSN, then we'd probably grab PS3s. That's competition through differentiation. The Ouya doesn't need the best hardware, but it needs stuff that is UNIQUELY Ouya, or else why would I buy one?

I know I'm sounding down on the system but personally I'd really like it to succeed because I believe it could shake up the industry, however unless a bunch of devs say "hot damn! we're movin' to Ouya" or some other huge deal happens, I don't see it breaking out of a very small niche of consumers, which would prevent said industry shake up from ever happening.

All this of course assuming it isn't a scam.

Yep, Ouya's success is entirely contingent on whether they have the necessary marketing power and even if they do whether the potential market is even big enough to sustain it. Fortunately whether the device actually succeeds is largely irrelevant to my interest in it. Being easily hackable means that even after it dies it will still live on as a zombie console sustained by mad scientist devs.

Everything I've read indicates that people buy a console precisely for a single game. Then they maybe pick up a couple others.

These don't happen to be the same people who complain they haven't touched their Wii since they beat the last Zelda/Mario game? But yes, the big guys definitely have significant installed hardcore fanbases who will deal with crappy launches titles because they know their favorite series will be on the console. I don't know if I'm convinced they're where the majority of profit comes from though, especially if they only get a few other games as you say. Still, it will definitely be much harder for Ouya without some sort of killer app.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Dhsu

[quintin3265]

These don't happen to be the same people who complain they haven't touched their Wii since they beat the last Zelda/Mario game?

There's a great article on the Internet about Target's marketing practices. They did some research and determined that there are "life events" where people change their buying habits and are willing to try new brands; otherwise, it is difficult to get people to change brands. Two of these life events are moving to a new city and pregnancy. Their algorithms at predicting pregnancy got so good that they saturated teenagers with marketing materials based on their purchasing habits when the algorithm predicted these kids were pregnant. These teenagers' parents threatened to sue - that is, until they found out that their kids actually were pregnant.

I'd wager that the Ouya will face a similar dilemma. These people who haven't picked up the Wii since they beat Mario are people who bought the Wii solely for Mario. They played Mario because they know that all 20 or 30 iterations of Mario have been generally good games, and now they're in their 40s still playing the games they were introduced to as teenagers. These people are not willing to change consoles without a significant life event, like getting married or having kids, changes their financial statuses or opens their minds to new possibilities.

The real market for the Ouya is going to be limited to young people, who don't have preferences made up yet, and to developers. Developers aren't going to be buying others' games, because they are programming their own, so we ignore them here. And I think that with the young people, playing video games is going out of fashion. The bored 15-year-old nowadays doesn't go home and play video games like the 15-year-old did 15 years ago; now, the 15-year-old goes home and does "social networking" on facebook and by sending text messages.

People are missing that the Ouya isn't competing against other consoles. The older market is set, and in the younger market they're competing against things like text messaging. At an incredible 1300 (!) text messages a month, the low-income, young, most open-minded market is too preoccupied by "social" activities to play games on the Ouya.

[Dhsu]

Hm, good point. Although, the Ouya is using a mobile OS, so there might be a way to leverage that to target the younger crowd.

[Kenogu Labz]

...

I'll just leave this here...

No, it's not equivalent to what OUYA is attempting to do by any means, but I'm kind of interested as to where they're going with this. It's just Steam, so we already know it's not as focused on developer support, but hey, it leverages existing hardware most of us should already have as opposed to needing a new box. Now to see if they'll add features to make the transition to TV play worth it. There are points here which seem to strongly counteract what OUYA would be for. Correct me if I'm wrong, though; I've only been keeping track of OUYA on a fringe level.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Kenogu Labz

[Dhsu]

It is awesome, but if your computer is already in your living room or you don't mind spending the extra money and time on another PC, there was never anything to keep you from hooking up Steam to your TV. This only makes Steam easier to use, which doesn't help if the game itself doesn't have controller support, which is the still the case with many PC games. And you'll be hard-pressed to find anything with split-screen if you want friends over.

[Calpis]

Do games do split-screen anymore? I miss those days, and with HDTVs nowadays, it seems like SSMP would be less terrible.

[Kenogu Labz]

It is awesome, but if your computer is already in your living room or you don't mind spending the extra money and time on another PC, there was never anything to keep you from hooking up Steam to your TV. This only makes Steam easier to use, which doesn't help if the game itself doesn't have controller support, which is the still the case with many PC games. And you'll be hard-pressed to find anything with split-screen if you want friends over.

Yeah, this is most certainly the case at a second glance. I'm not sure the OUYA has it beat in terms of multiplayer gaming, though; were there multiple controllers planned?

As far as I can tell, the main perk is Steam's interface getting a console-like lift, making Steam itself easier to use with a controller, not necessarily the games themselves. In that regard, it really doesn't conflict with OUYA much at all. Sorry for the red herring!

[Crowbar Man]

Been waiting for this, I think the Big Screen Steam interface is a fantastic idea. Combined with Greelight, it gives yet another option for indies to make games for controller/TV, though not quite a console (NEXT STEP VALVE), its better than one for power gamers / PC gamers. Steam really is the best thing to happen to the PC. Or the game industry in general

I'm not sure the OUYA has it beat in terms of multiplayer gaming, though; were there multiple controllers planned?

Ouya supports up to 4 Ouya controllers

Edited September 11, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Nabeel Ansari]

though not quite a console (NEXT STEP VALVE),

*facepalm*

[quintin3265]

Do games do split-screen anymore? I miss those days, and with HDTVs nowadays, it seems like SSMP would be less terrible.

I think that the reason split-screen has gone downhill is because it wasn't that good of an idea to begin with. It sounds like a great idea in theory, but it's nearly impossible to get four people together to play a game for even half an hour without someone getting bored or getting distracted by his phone or leaving. Has anyone on this thread been able to get people together to play a splitscreen game together in the last ten years, outside of giant venues like MAGfest?

The Internet replaced split-screen because it was a better solution from the start. You don't have to worry about coordinating schedules because there is always someone available to take over if someone quits.

[Gollgagh]

nice anecdotal data there

[EC2151]

I don't know, I may love my steam sales (though I rarely purchase from steam these days!), but Steam sort of brought us into the age of DRM and all sorts of other scheisty practices, so I don't really think it's the savior the gaming community at large makes it out to be.

That and steam is a little prejudiced against certain genres showing up. Some folks like Nyu Media, who work bringing doujin arcade/shmup type games have to go through a lot of hoops to get their stuff on Steam, whereas other "indie" devs have much less of a problem, even if it's something like Sword and Sorcery EP, which is barely a game!

And of course, there's my distrust of leaving games in a purely digital download format...

[Bahamut]

Split screen isn't as popular likely due to the rise of networked homes, wireless, and general evolution of technology. It still has some appeal for games & in a lot of ways a far superior social experience.

Edit: DRM has been present before the rise of Steam and far more crappy. Steam helped curb a lot of the worst practices.

[Dhsu]

http://kotaku.com/5941793/valve-is-bringing-steam-to-your-tv-today-watch-out-consoles

The comments bring up a lot of good points about the logistical challenges involved in getting the best experience from a living room PC, including

1) Still have to deal with all the regular PC hassles like driver updates, incompatibility, upgrading hardware, finding graphics settings that are tolerable to look at while still being playable, etc.

2) The noise/lack of privacy from being in a main activity area.

3) PC games are designed to be played with the screen a couple feet from your face, so often text and smaller details become indistinguishable at a greater distance.

4) TVs actually have slightly different resolutions from PC displays, so overscan becomes an issue.

5) And this one is from personal experience: you can't get surround sound to your existing home theater receiver via your motherboard's SPDIF. It only supports stereo PCM. So either you need to have a set of PC surround speakers alongside your home theater ones, or you need to buy a sound card that will encode the output to a Dolby or DTS signal.

[BardicKnowledge]

I think that the reason split-screen has gone downhill is because it wasn't that good of an idea to begin with. It sounds like a great idea in theory, but it's nearly impossible to get four people together to play a game for even half an hour without someone getting bored or getting distracted by his phone or leaving. Has anyone on this thread been able to get people together to play a splitscreen game together in the last ten years, outside of giant venues like MAGfest?

The Internet replaced split-screen because it was a better solution from the start. You don't have to worry about coordinating schedules because there is always someone available to take over if someone quits.

I would love more splitscreen games on PC -- it would mean that both my wife and I could play simultaneously. Or, on those occasions when we have a gaming couple come over (fairly often, since many of our friends game) it would be nice to be able to play four-player local.

I shouldn't have to turn on the console to have four players playing in my home.

[Crowbar Man]

No Dhsu. There are no differences between PCs and consoles. Stop trying to bring up information and facts. STOP!!11

Emperor Charlemagne: Technically it is a type of DRM, but its the only DRM that actually works and is a benefit to customers than a hindrance. (Good prices, lots of sales, great interface, tons of community options (they added a whole lot recently), in game/cross game IM/chat/voice, in game web browser, achievements, a workshop for submiting your own fanmade stuff, Greenlight as a path for Indies onto its service, Big Screen for TV use, etc, etc). Benefits far outweigh the tiny con in this case.

Most DRM is "Well we broke your game, sorry legit paying customer."

The only major problem with Steam as a "DRM" is when companies decide they need more DRM on top of Steam, then crap gets broken like normal.

And it was far from the first DRM, as mentioned.

impossible to get four people together to play a game for even half an hour without someone getting bored or getting distracted by his phone or leaving.

Wow, maybe find people who like to play videogames? People have LAN/console parties all the time (small personal ones, not big venues).

Also as Bardic mentioned, a gaming spouse/couple is always good for at least 2 player

Part of the Wii's business model focused on people in the living room playing together, and thats continuing with Wii U (with an extra 5th player screen to boot!).

Not sure if we'll see too much of that on Ouya since its isn't exactly a power house, but 4 player on the same screen, non split, I definitely want to see some of that.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Kenogu Labz]

Clarification, Crowbar: Consoles and PCs both fall under the category of computers; however, a console is a PC, while not all PCs are consoles. You must distinguish between the two in terms of the services they offer, hardware they leverage, portability and modularity of their components, flexibility of use, methods of control... the list goes on.

Consoles are specialized computers; PCs are generalized. The specialized nature of consoles makes it very easy to pick up and play, and the consistent nature of their hardware makes them easier to develop for and support. PCs are built in many different ways; offering supporting for your product on every possible combination of compatible hardware is, for all practical purposes, impossible.

EDIT: D'oh. Did I just fall for the sarcasm card?