XPRTNovice Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I got studio drummer with Komplete 8 and I'm looking for a preset that will help me turn it into a great prog-metal kit. Right now it all kind of sounds like a really nice rock kit, but I need everything to have that metal punch/snappiness to it. I'm not an expert when it comes to editing samples, so I would only waste my time if I tried to do it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 A preset INSIDE of Studio Drummer or OUTSIDE of it? There is a "Metal" preset for it in there, but I'm not yet convinced it sounds like the real thing, and the latter is probably going to be hard to find, much less integrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I got studio drummer with Komplete 8 and I'm looking for a preset that will help me turn it into a great prog-metal kit. Right now it all kind of sounds like a really nice rock kit, but I need everything to have that metal punch/snappiness to it. I'm not an expert when it comes to editing samples, so I would only waste my time if I tried to do it myself. I don't really listen to metal so I don't know what you're after specifically, but could you get what you want by sending each drum to its own output and applying EQ and compression yourself? Why do you you think you need to edit samples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I don't know too much about NI's Studio Drummer but i have seen some people turn just about any kit into a functional metal kit through very creative use of EQ and layering. Put time into creating your own preset. It will take awhile but in the end you'll have a much more personal connection to it and you'll learn a ton about the various drum sound subtleties while you do it. Though if you have the extra cash I swear by Steven Slate Drums. By far the greatest of all the drum kits i've heard for metal (and its various sub genres) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 But what do you EQ in the drums to make it sound metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argle Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 You can get a "metal" sounding kick out of a normal one by cutting out the mud in the low mids and raising up the high end so it gets that scooped clicky sound. As for snare, keep it nice and snappy with a compressor or envelope, don't let it ring out. Hi hats get mixed pretty low in metal and use mostly the overheads. Just some vague suggestions, they may be of no use to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I got studio drummer with Komplete 8 and I'm looking for a preset that will help me turn it into a great prog-metal kit. Right now it all kind of sounds like a really nice rock kit, but I need everything to have that metal punch/snappiness to it. I'm not an expert when it comes to editing samples, so I would only waste my time if I tried to do it myself. You're wasting your time as a musician if you see learning a new skill as a waste of your time. Especially one as essential as basic mixing. Just play with EQ and compression until you get sounds you like. For snap and punch you generally want to EQ your kick drum with a boost at 80-120hz, cut around 500hz and boost at 3.5khz and again at around 10khz. For snares you want do boost a little at wherever the punch is (generally around 200hz) and then again at 3-5khz and 10khz. These are all relative to the fundamental frequencies, so to find those just play with a single band of EQ on a sound until you hear the most unique qualities pop out (like the ring or snap of a snare, each of those are focused on a certain EQ range). Get that down and then you can start thinking about compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 But what do you EQ in the drums to make it sound metal? No one likes answers like these but there is so much diversity that it's only possible to give a general direction. Many drummers, like guitarists, spend lots of time and money getting a sound that is unique to them and depending on the sub genre you can go from a piercing clickier sound to a darker heavily muffled one (like someone put a bunch of pillows inside the kick). As with most metal processing the best starting point would be to drop the mids and start playing with the lows and upper mids. For a kick try layering a deeper muffled kick with a lighter one. EQ seperately or together, whatever sounds good to you. ...and make sure to play around with PARALLEL COMPRESSION!!!! (or NY compression) You will get a fantastic metal sound that way! but that comes after you figure everything else out to suit you. Parallel Compression the recording revolution way.Post WIP when able! Just please for the love of GOD don't distill the kick down to just a plastic click. I can't freaking stand that and it's way to common! EDIT: that's what i get for typing too slow, just go with what snappleman says! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 No one likes answers like these but there is so much diversity that it's only possible to give a general direction. That's fine, that's what I expected, I'm still just leading the war against unnecessarily vague answers for questions where specific answers could have been more useful. For some genres and sounds, there ARE specific EQ and settings you want to have, but others, like this, I expected it would be more general. Of course, since the only advice people ever give is "Well just use your ears and play with knobs and shit until you get it right and you should be fine", its always hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPRTNovice Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 You're wasting your time as a musician if you see learning a new skill as a waste of your time. Especially one as essential as basic mixing. Yeah, I know. Thanks. It's been a rough learning curve for me lately and I've been getting a little frustrated. Thanks to everyone for the responses, I'm going to go back and play with this stuff and see if I can't get something good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshaggyfreak Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 It really is a matter of taste since various types of metal have various types of drum sound. Often, though, I tend to hear a lot of 'click' in the attack of the kick drum. Also gota get that kick to lock in with the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 While I don't really listen to a lot of metal, I don't recall hearing much that is "click" in the kick drums. Can someone post an example, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I got studio drummer with Komplete 8 and I'm looking for a preset that will help me turn it into a great prog-metal kit. Right now it all kind of sounds like a really nice rock kit, but I need everything to have that metal punch/snappiness to it. I'm not an expert when it comes to editing samples, so I would only waste my time if I tried to do it myself. Could you post 2-3 different loops (that you would hear in a metal song) so I/we can hear the kinda sound you got going on please and I will see if I can find a easy way to get the sound your looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshaggyfreak Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The click sound is often somewhere between 6k-8k. It's that really hard attack that I often hear in the drum sound of various metal bands. You don't necessarily hear so much of the click when things are mixed together but it does help the kick drum break out of the mix a bit. Again, there are so many types of metal and the sound depends on what you're going for. It's best to point out a song that you like the drums on and say, "Help me get my drums to sound more like this!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPRTNovice Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 I don't have any loops, but I'm going for the dream theater sound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXFFYcuhuw the advice so far has already vastly improved my kick drum, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I don't have any loops, but I'm going for the dream theater soundhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXFFYcuhuw the advice so far has already vastly improved my kick drum, thanks No, I mean could you make and render a small drum piece so we can hear what your sound is like with 3 different rhythms that would be in a metal song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPRTNovice Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 oh yeah sure https://www.box.com/s/cw3u5wnfyig08toi7jwn this is with my "improved" kick - might have to fast forward a bit to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnWake Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The click sound is very noticeable on Symphony X's kick drums (listen to for one of their latest songs, the sections with fast kick drums show the click).One very important element, besides from the kick, is having a noticeable snare, especially if you want the DT sound. Snappleman gave some nice tips there, the 200-250hz region makes your snare sound powerful and the higher region gives some presence (I'm no expert but that's what I've found out in the few mixes I've done and in some websites!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I don't have any loops, but I'm going for the dream theater soundhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXFFYcuhuw the advice so far has already vastly improved my kick drum, thanks I like Dream Theatre too. I'm sure Steven Slate Drums has a Dream Theatre preset as a signature kit. Also, be careful on the highs for the snare. Too much and it's just hissy rather than powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 oh yeah surehttps://www.box.com/s/cw3u5wnfyig08toi7jwn this is with my "improved" kick - might have to fast forward a bit to hear Dream theaters drums use all sorts of different instruments in there kit, the sound you got going sounds like mike portney's images and words sound. How does this sound for you? made it in 2 or 3 hours https://soundcloud.com/aires/i-like-cereal-makes-a-cool also please dont bug me on me playing clean, have not played my guitar since last summer hehe, got kinda lazy on some of this ; ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Also, the performance makes a bigger difference than the mixing in most cases. So study some metal tracks and learn how those drummers play the songs, then just copy it via your sequencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The mid-centric eq cuts on drums...isn't that more of a pragmatic consideration because you'll get a shitload of mids with all the power chords? I can see how all the suggestions are helpful in creating classic metal sounds (the common denominator is probably thrash). But hey, why not use a more groovy, balanced drum sound for once, like black sabbath's, or something? But i guess that'd automatically make it hard rock/blues these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Also, the performance makes a bigger difference than the mixing in most cases. So study some metal tracks and learn how those drummers play the songs, then just copy it via your sequencing. ^ This I did nothing to the drums but boost the cymbals a bit and tiny compression so the drums can pump : / its all on performance, sounds, and your master bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The mid-centric eq cuts on drums...isn't that more of a pragmatic consideration because you'll get a shitload of mids with all the power chords? Might seem that way but rhythm guitars get cut in the same way. Well not exactly the same way but close to. Usually the rhythm guitars are bracketed off low (starting around 100hz) and high (varies but 4k is a good place to start) and then dipped around 500hz. Supposedly the mid cut is to let the bass come through but when was the last time you went "listen to the sound of that bass!" on a metal album? I think it's more because volumes are pushed so hard and those frequencies sound like hell. More specifically like cardboard and the repetition necessary to get the smashing a guy in the head with a sledgehammer vibe (what? at least that's the metal i listen to...) makes listening to those frequencies far less endurable. Cut them and you can go all day. Listen to amateur demos of metal bands then listen to the finished studio ones and you can pretty quickly pick out what should have been cut. ...and why you can't listen to more than 3 minutes of a demo in a day. At least those are my thoughts on the issue, i'm still trying to figure things out myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Supposedly the mid cut is to let the bass come through but when was the last time you went "listen to the sound of that bass!" on a metal album? I think that has more to do with what the bass plays, just like with drums. You simply get a lot of bass playing in metal that's very supportive of the riffs or even verbatim. Even when you can't make out the bass sound very well, it's a fundamental part of making the riff pump, and you can hear the huge difference when the bass drops out and the guitars keep chugging. Lots of tunes use that for effect. I get what you're saying about keeping it transparent for your ear's sake. I guess it's all dependant on how metal it gets. There are metal albums that i like for their muddy, cranked up wall of sound. it can be appropriate, even though it leaves your ears numb and ringing after a playthrough on headphones.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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