OCR01482 - *YES* Metal Slug 2 'No Need to Reload'

[djpretzel]

This was my mix for PRC63, the original song is called "Judgement", don't know much else about the game. The original is very rock orientated, good stuff and I wanted to keep that vibe, and extend on it into something alot more cool feeling and grooving.

The mix is guitar focused, hard hitting and constantly varies to play around the idea. From hard rock to slipping into some funk based ground, with slap bass solos and mad drumming. Basically just good fun, and fun listening. I've been playing around with guitar ideas for a while, and wanted this to be a piece to show what I could do with fake guitars. I've dipped into some metal ideas, mostly with some of the drumming and bass, but kept it as energetic as possible. The synth work is just a layer of icing on the cake, to keep a unique feel about it, along with the second phased drum kit. This was great fun to work on in the end, I wish I could've made it longer, but I feel it does enough for its time. I hope Metal Slug fans can think fondly of it too. The games are a great series and really need more coverage.

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[zircon]

Hey, fake guitars can do an awful lot. Just check out SSH - the majority of the stuff you'll hear from that guy is sampled guitar, and he probably uses cheaper samples than you did in this one! Gray will tell you, it's all about the technique. But anyway, that's on a side note.

For once, I gotta say, your heavily-compressed approach to production (specifically, drums) works very well here. This is exactly the style of execution I would expect to hear in this genre. The guitars are pretty well sequenced, you've got some nice breaks, a badass bass, and nice drum patterns. I can't quite place my finger on what style this reminds me of, but it's good. I think you've found a niche that really suits you. All your other mixes I've heard had elements that I hear now, but those elements didn't work as well in those other mixes. They DO come together in this one. Way to go. This is good stuff

YES

[DarkeSword]

Sounded iffy when it started off, but when that percussion came in and those synth guitars started gating, I was sold.

The texture does get a bit crowded, and I'd have liked to hear some stronger basslines (also a lower treble in the EQ), but this is fine as is.

High energy. Nice.

YES

[The Orichalcon]

Whoa, that intro guitar is awfully loud and abrasive. It builds into a generally very loud soundscape pretty quickly, so it seems less out of place in context. I think this could've been a bit clearer if it wasn't quite as loud as it is now. Checking the file in Cool Edit shows that everything was mastered properly. Gray or Larry can give the final word on that, since they both seem to have bat ears when it comes to noticing small sound discrepencies

Bassline from 2:00 = hotness. Very cool with the drums. You win the prize.

Overall it's a cool soundscape. This is the type of genre where your natural loud-mixing style actually folds in fluently with the mix. Well done, and make more of these.

YES

[Liontamer]

Metal Slug 2 Original Soundtracks - (04) "Judgement"

Played this back on VGF83, so I've had a chance to hear this before. What a crappy source tune though. Those voices bug the crap out of me, and it's such a lame track in the first place. It does spell "Judgement" with an E though, so props for that.

GODDAMN son, this is way too loud. Bah, it's a Roetaka piece, so it's always gonna be needlessly loud, I dunno why. Guitar at :39 went for the source chorus and sounded absolutely buried under the drums. HAHAHAHA! Comparing this to SSH is way out there, I'm sorry. Not that I'm looking for SSH-quality sequencing, as I don't mean to diss Alex, but this isn't as sophisticated and, when used without doubling, doesn't sound very good.

I thought the guitar tone in places was awfully flat (e.g. :39-58). Doubling them at :59 helped alleviate some of the issues I had there. Whenever the drums are in play though, like with :59-1:12, they're just dominating over the top of the guitars and bassline and making the soundfield sound like a cluttered mess.

1:39-1:52 is just so loud and poorly balanced, I can't imagine why anyone would think it sounds ok with this ridiculous amount of sizzle. The bass sequencing done at 1:59 is alright, but isn't ridiculously strong. 2:12, again with these loud, washed out drums. Jesus, the cymbals were sizzling so loud there. I can't believe no one else is complaining about this stuff. Tons more clutter and sheer volume from 2:39-3:08 leading toward the end.

Like everyone else, I feel like the overall texture and sound selection was better than most of Alex's previous pieces. But the production is still holding this back substantially. It's just way too loud, abrasive and overcompressed. Personally, I didn't feel the arrangement was strong enough or cohesive enough to make up for this kind of overly swamped, cluttered sound. I don't see why such a problematic production approach that has hurt other subs in the past seems hunky-dory in this instance when it's causing the same old problems. Even though the track's probably not clipping, that's clearly not the problem here.

NO (resubmit)

[GrayLightning]

Ok so where's the sourcetune? Is it me or was larry the only one who mentioned anything about the arrangement comparison?

[The Orichalcon]

I don't see why such a problematic production approach that has hurt other subs in the past seems hunky-dory in this instance when it's causing the same old problems. Even though the track's probably not clipping, that's clearly not the problem here.

Loudness isn't necessarily a bad thing. Roe's naturally leaning towards a louder sound. He's done this mix in a way that it's loud, while still being technically efficient. As long as it doesn't clip and fits the genre, I don't see how you can reject it based on that.

[Liontamer]

I don't see why such a problematic production approach that has hurt other subs in the past seems hunky-dory in this instance when it's causing the same old problems. Even though the track's probably not clipping, that's clearly not the problem here.

Loudness isn't necessarily a bad thing. Roe's naturally leaning towards a louder sound. He's done this mix in a way that it's loud, while still being technically efficient. As long as it doesn't clip and fits the genre, I don't see how you can reject it based on that.

I don't think it fits this genre at all. I think a somewhat less compressed sound would sound powerful without making the loudest sections sound imbalanced and indistinct.

[The Orichalcon]

So you're saying that in it's current form, it's unacceptable for OCR under the guidelines? Not based on your personal opinion.

I've no doubt it would sound better if it was a little softer. But rejecting it over such a small thing seems a little unfair.

[GrayLightning]

Loudness can be a bad thing, but it depends on the context and how it was compressed/etc details. Honestly I could write a book on it but don't feel like it right now. I suggest checking electronicmusician.com and other sites on this topic. But the short answer is it depends.

My main concern is I hope you all at least double checked against the source file to compare. I'm getting a vibe that only larry did...

Anyway listening to it now... will edit shortly.

[Liontamer]

So you're saying that in it's current form, it's unacceptable for OCR under the guidelines? Not based on your personal opinion.

I've no doubt it would sound better if it was a little softer. But rejecting it over such a small thing seems a little unfair.

Not softer. Simply more balanced. Right now, it's too difficult to distinguish among the sounds during the loud portions of the track, with the drums in particular crowding out the rest of the instruments while sounding loud and indistinct themselves. That's pretty much my call on it.

[GrayLightning]

Well I think this is a bit too loud. I'm starting to think Roe's ears are either damaged from listening to overly loud music or his volume settings are messed up and his monitoring equipment are giving him a false impression, because all his stuff is OVER THE TOP LOUD.

However it's better handled here, and in this context it does work better. I still think it's a bit much, but unlike his other mixes it's not that problematic. I still think it's too much, but then again, so is this syle.

The cyms that larry is complaining about are fine on my side. The treble issue has reared its ugly head again for larry.

My main beef here is the guitar. It sounds ugly. The sample itself is good, but whatever Roe did as far as processing ruins it... But I suppose that could be personal taste. The distortion on it also sounds ugly. Sounds very cheap and crunchy. UGLY! I have a feeling Vig might throw up if he heard this.

But the sequencing and concepts are generally ace here. The bass and drum work is great! Close, very close. But I'd like to hear this tweaked. A bit less compressed, levels reduced a bit and better processing done on the guitar which is such a star role of this mix that it deserves better treatment than say Chronodyne Marine where the guitars weren't as much of a focal point.

Shifting from b-yes to Very borderline NO.

[zircon]

Larry - I wasn't comparing him to SSH. I was saying that fake guitars shouldn't be discarded, there's a lot you can do with them. But while we're on the topic, in terms of sound balance, SSH's "Merciless Killer" is pretty much mastered the exact same way as this. For the genre it's a VERY common approach.

[JJT]

I don't see what the issue is here.

YES

But the production is still holding this back substantially. It's just way too loud, abrasive and overcompressed.

Too loud, abrasive, and overcompressed for what? There's no clipping, so just turn the volume down.

For some reason this put me in mind of the kind of synthetic music that would be played at one of those cyberpunk bars in Shadowrun.

That's kind of an aside though.

The guitars are cheesy, but I find them almost charming. Kind of like a hat you'd get at some gift shop that's so obnoxious that you grow really attached to it. Is this making sense? Am I making too many iffy analogies here?

Anyway.

The overall package that Roe presents just works for me. That's some really good drum and bass programming, son.

[GrayLightning]

DJP has reservations about this - Vig and DJP need to weigh in on this.

[Vig]

I hate to quote a Weezer T-Shirt, but if it's too loud, turn it down.

The only real criticisms I'm hearing are that the instruments sometimes mush, and that some of you dont really like the guitar tone.

The lead guitar does kind of bug me, and it even sounds a bit flat to me. It's probably my imagination. There is a good deal of fuzz on the track as a result of all the distortion. The mix might sound better without it, but I don't see it as a huge issue.

The rhythm guitars are actually pretty cool. the gating is sweet. The drum and bass sequencing kicks ass. The arrangement is concise and interesting.

The production is obviously weaker than the arrangement/concept end, but the track sounds perfectly allright. We can all imagine a few tweaks that would clearly make this mix sound better, but that's not the same as saying that the track sounds unpassable as it is. We would be WAY too picky to reject this because of minor production flaws.

YES