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Bigfoot
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^ Exactly. Until the actual system is released and there are official prices I'm just ignoring all the rumors.
Nintendo DS's only need 1 dead pixel to trade it in. They didn't need a set number, as long as you had 1, you could trade yours in for a new one.

I dunno, there were some people on here who had issues with that. Smoke?

No matter what the return policy, you have to admit that the PSP had more hardware troubles than the DS.

And I believe the minimum was 1 pixel per screen...

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^ Exactly. Until the actual system is released and there are official prices I'm just ignoring all the rumors.
Nintendo DS's only need 1 dead pixel to trade it in. They didn't need a set number, as long as you had 1, you could trade yours in for a new one.

I dunno, there were some people on here who had issues with that. Smoke?

No matter what the return policy, you have to admit that the PSP had more hardware troubles than the DS.

And I believe the minimum was 1 pixel per screen...

Well, both have had dead pixels. The PSP had a lot more due to crappy shipment from Japan to the states. The PSP had a cruddy square button on some units (which actually doesn't affect gameplay, it just feels 'squishy'). The DS lite has a tendancy to have it's hinges break, and, in my experience, the DS screen is a lot easier to scratch than it should be. I'd say both have had their hardware problems, but yes, the PSP does have a worse reputation. I love both systems though.

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And in general, beyond your personal experience but on average: did the PS2 have bigger hardware issues than the gamecube?

Obviously, yes. What exactly is your point here? Some PS2's developed problems down the line. Mine didn't, most people I know haven't had any problems, I just heard people complaining on the internet. I've had many other Sony products that work without fail though, so I don't expect a lot of hardware failures for the PS3. If I have an issue, it should be under warranty for a while, so there's not really a problem. On the other hand, my friend's GameCube died from a small 2 foot drop from a low table to the floor. Yes, Nintendo generally makes solid hardware, but it's more luck and how you treat your system than anything. I'm betting most PS2 with disc read errors just need a lens clean. Fixes most problems instantly.

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I just love listening to Sony lie. First they say the Wiimote had nothing to do with their decision to make the PS3 controller tilt-sensitive, then they see that the DS is expanding to more than the usual crowd so they say the PSP is doing better at expanding in spite of the DS kicking the PSP's butt really badly, and now this.

And this.

Oh, and looks like Sony's copying Nintendo again: http://www.wiisourceonline.com/articles/52/1/Imitation-is-the-most-sincere-form-of-flattery...-again/

I wonder what story they'll come up with for this one?

Historically, Sony has had very poor customer support when it came to their video game systems. Who remembers when the PSP was shipping with an unusually high amount of dead/stuck pixels, and malfunctioning analog buttons? Or the various issues that the PS2 had? Or the overheating of the first generation PS1? And who remembers how Sony responded to these problems? I do. A relatively quick search reveals some unflattering reports.

This article has some interesting points about this subject.

Oh, and I know for a fact that the DS only needed to have one dead pixel to be fixed, because my friend Gigs (who is on the boards) had a DS with a single dead pixel, and Nintendo quickly replaced it. BTW, between all my friends who own DS/DS Lites, that is the only one of the 12 that had any problem at all. And man, you should see Tweak's. He spraypainted all over it (tried to write his name but messed up, so spraypainted the whole thing), has thrown/dropped it multiple times and in multiple ways, and one particular time in a grocery store he chucked it at me with the screens open all the way down an aisle. And it still works perfectly, except that he recently lost it (yes, he is really stupid).

Also, I just find this hilarious:

My PSP actually developed a dead pixel when I shipped it in the mail, but it's somewhere I don't even notice it. A lot of DS's had dead pixels, and unless you had more than 5 or so, Nintendo wouldn't take them back either.
You couldn't be more wrong. Not only will Nintendo take them back for only one dead pixel, it was Sony who had that stupid policy. And on top of that, the policy was that it had to have TEN dead pixels, not five. Kind of sad to see that backfire on you. Twofold.

Sources: http://www.cnet.com/4520-6033_1-6023185-1.html

http://www.engadget.com/2004/12/07/nintendo-fixes-ds-with-one-bad-pixel/

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Ok, stfu about imitation, and wtf is with the DS & PSP talk here? While Sony has had a bad track record with their customer policies, they had a notable improvement with the PSP over the PS2 (and I do know numerous in person people who have had their PS2 die on them early, some of them launch window PS2s). With a device as expensive as the PS3, I'm sure they realize that they can't get away with poor customer service like they originally did with the PS2.

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I just wish Sony would just make there own thing, why do they need to copy the wii, what are they trying to prove... they should be spending their recources on, new ideas, or maybe more ps3`s....

Why the hell do you care? Stop taking it so personally.

I'm not sure he's taking it personally...

There's nothing inherently wrong with copying someone else's ideas.* If you do it better than they did or apply it in a new way, you deserve the market share you will probably get. This argument works for Nintendo as well - they certainly don't invent technology, they aren't that kind of company. They just take existing technology and apply it to games. Original? Maybe. Innovative? Technically not. Stupid, gimmicky or an insult to gamers? Unlikely.

The same with the PS3. Sony saw a good idea with the Wiimote. I don't think their implementation is exactly stellar, but I may be proven wrong later on.

At any rate, if companies didn't copy off of other companies, gaming - heck, mainstream technology itself - would never get anywhere, so please, no more whining about how any company is stealing ideas from any other.

*See: The personal computer as we know it today. Many hold that Xerox invented the graphical user interface, but they don't make computers now do they?

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^ Totally agree with you Kitsuta. Implementing other peoples' ideas is the KEY to competition, evolution, and yes, innovation.

My PSP actually developed a dead pixel when I shipped it in the mail, but it's somewhere I don't even notice it. A lot of DS's had dead pixels, and unless you had more than 5 or so, Nintendo wouldn't take them back either.
You couldn't be more wrong. Not only will Nintendo take them back for only one dead pixel, it was Sony who had that stupid policy. And on top of that, the policy was that it had to have TEN dead pixels, not five. Kind of sad to see that backfire on you. Twofold.

Sources: http://www.cnet.com/4520-6033_1-6023185-1.html

http://www.engadget.com/2004/12/07/nintendo-fixes-ds-with-one-bad-pixel/

I stand corrected then. I had just heard someone on here (Smoke?) who had trouble returning a DS with dead pixels and assumed it was a universal thing.

As for a virtual console on the PS3, it's pretty much a no-brainer for an online console with a harddrive. The 360 has been doing it for a while now (and yet you don't hear people whining about Nintendo stealing their idea). Emulation on consoles is not a new thing. Charging for it is. And really, who the fuck cares? If someone being able to download a Genesis game on their PS3 REALLY bothers you, you sir, need to get a fucking life. Seriously. Step out of the sunlight and get Nintendo's cock out of your mouth for a while. It's clouding your judgement.

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I just wish Sony would just make there own thing, why do they need to copy the wii, what are they trying to prove... they should be spending their recources on, new ideas, or maybe more ps3`s....

Why the hell do you care? Stop taking it so personally.

Ok, I don't fully agree with linkspast. Sony is still doing their own thing overall, it's just that they copy a few ideas, like basic controller functions, and the virtual console. And I don't think spending resources on things they copy is related to how many PS3s they can make; the shortage was due to blue laser diodes or something.

But I think the way you responded was kind of wierd, Pthisis. If a gamer (I hate that term but I can't think of what else to say) feels that one of the three major next-gen systems is just wasting it's time copying another of the systems, then of course they're going to care. From linkspast's point of view, it probably looks like there is no response to his complaint, other than someone angrily telling him that they don't like him being concerned about it. But whatever, maybe that's just me.

Ok, stfu about imitation, and wtf is with the DS & PSP talk here? While Sony has had a bad track record with their customer policies, they had a notable improvement with the PSP over the PS2 (and I do know numerous in person people who have had their PS2 die on them early, some of them launch window PS2s). With a device as expensive as the PS3, I'm sure they realize that they can't get away with poor customer service like they originally did with the PS2.
stfu about imitation, huh? You just don't like to hear about it so I have to stop? Sony stealing the idea of the virtual console is pretty notable I'd say, especially after what they did with their controller.

I joined the DS and PSP discussion because I saw that EvilHead's argument was wrong, and I didn't want people getting the wrong idea.

You have a good point about PS3's customer service. It does seem too expensive to not have decent customer service, but if you get a PS3 on launch and it's defective, I don't think you'll be getting another one for a while, because there are going to be so few PS3s for a while, and they will be in high demand.

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You have a good point about PS3's customer service. It does seem too expensive to not have decent customer service, but if you get a PS3 on launch and it's defective, I don't think you'll be getting another one for a while, because there are going to be so few PS3s for a while, and they will be in high demand.

WHY would it be defective? Have you ever heard of a thing called quailty control? It's tested and sent out. Of the PS2 that were malfunctioning, what percentage of those were defective from the start? Were there ANY cases of this? The PS2s that have malfunctioned, usually in regard to reading dual layer DVDs, are problems that have cropped up YEARS later. We're talking about a 6 year old console here. So if you have your PS2 in a dusty house for 4 years and suddenly get disc read errors on certain DVDs, this means that PS3s are going to be defective right out of the box? I understand that Sony has a bad rep when it comes the the PS2, but come on. You're just exaggerating.

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^ Totally agree with you Kitsuta. Implementing other peoples' ideas is the KEY to competition, evolution, and yes, innovation.
My PSP actually developed a dead pixel when I shipped it in the mail, but it's somewhere I don't even notice it. A lot of DS's had dead pixels, and unless you had more than 5 or so, Nintendo wouldn't take them back either.
You couldn't be more wrong. Not only will Nintendo take them back for only one dead pixel, it was Sony who had that stupid policy. And on top of that, the policy was that it had to have TEN dead pixels, not five. Kind of sad to see that backfire on you. Twofold.

Sources: http://www.cnet.com/4520-6033_1-6023185-1.html

http://www.engadget.com/2004/12/07/nintendo-fixes-ds-with-one-bad-pixel/

I stand corrected then. I had just heard someone on here (Smoke?) who had trouble returning a DS with dead pixels and assumed it was a universal thing.

As for a virtual console on the PS3, it's pretty much a no-brainer for an online console with a harddrive. The 360 has been doing it for a while now (and yet you don't hear people whining about Nintendo stealing their idea). Emulation on consoles is not a new thing. Charging for it is. And really, who the fuck cares? If someone being able to download a Genesis game on their PS3 REALLY bothers you, you sir, need to get a fucking life. Seriously. Step out of the sunlight and get Nintendo's cock out of your mouth for a while. It's clouding your judgement.

You just gained respect from me for the way you responded to the dead pixel thing. Most people can not admit when they're wrong, and if they're really cornered, they make the most ridiculous excuses, and it just makes them look stupid. Your mature response makes me feel bad for rubbing it in earlier.

And I'm not particularly bothered by the fact that you can download Genesis games on PS3. It's just when added to the tilt sensors, and the fact that Sony is so arrogant and tries to lie out of anything that makes them look bad, it seemed kind of funny. But yeah, it makes sense that they would do a virtual console type of thing too, and I forgot about how Xbox Live came first, Nintendo was obviously inspired by that.

But then, like Kitsuta said, copying ideas but making them better/using them differently is necessary for the evolution of the industry. But with the tilt sensors of the PS3, that is kind of...I mean it's only a hint of what Nintendo is doing. There isn't really any innovation there. But with Nintendo taking the idea of Xbox Live Arcade, they are really doing something with it. One of the main features of the console is "ultimate backwards compatibility" and while you could say it's not really backwards compatibility because it's just emulation, it was still a great way to implement the idea. Nintendo has by far the best backlog of old games, and it's going to expand a lot more than the games of XBL. They are really developing the idea, unlike what Sony is usually doing, it seems.

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And you know... if you do get a defective unit, you should return to the store you bought it from and demand an exchange. Policy or not, you can talk through it. And most stores do change it. Though I think some of them require insurance nowadays.

I can't believe we're talking about this again.

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You have a good point about PS3's customer service. It does seem too expensive to not have decent customer service, but if you get a PS3 on launch and it's defective, I don't think you'll be getting another one for a while, because there are going to be so few PS3s for a while, and they will be in high demand.

WHY would it be defective? Have you ever heard of a thing called quailty control? It's tested and sent out. Of the PS2 that were malfunctioning, what percentage of those were defective from the start? Were there ANY cases of this? The PS2s that have malfunctioned, usually in regard to reading dual layer DVDs, are problems that have cropped up YEARS later. We're talking about a 6 year old console here. So if you have your PS2 in a dusty house for 4 years and suddenly get disc read errors on certain DVDs, this means that PS3s are going to be defective right out of the box? I understand that Sony has a bad rep when it comes the the PS2, but come on. You're just exaggerating.

You got me. I didn't mean defective on arrival, I meant if something goes wrong with it. First-generation Sony consoles tend to not be the best quality, so I dunno.

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Ok, stfu about imitation, and wtf is with the DS & PSP talk here? While Sony has had a bad track record with their customer policies, they had a notable improvement with the PSP over the PS2 (and I do know numerous in person people who have had their PS2 die on them early, some of them launch window PS2s). With a device as expensive as the PS3, I'm sure they realize that they can't get away with poor customer service like they originally did with the PS2.
stfu about imitation, huh? You just don't like to hear about it so I have to stop? Sony stealing the idea of the virtual console is pretty notable I'd say, especially after what they did with their controller.

Don't get me wrong - I'd say it's pretty known in OCR that I prefer Nintendo's offerings usually. I just don't see how an imitation comment has a rightful place in a PS3 discussion. As others have said, imitation is good for the industry, especially if it's something good. Also, it should be noted that Gametap has been offering a similar system on the PC with PC emulation of console games for over an year (a legit service).

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If you're talking about imitation, the entire VC idea, the marketplace points and the completely identical pricepoints are obviously derived from Xbox Live and Xbox Live Arcade (to be factual about it, XLA launched around 2004. That was before Nintendo even started planning for the exact specifications and features of the Wii). And of course, the Dreamcast, even with its dysfunctional features went online first.

I love how some people get overtly selective about who copied who. Microsoft copies, Sony copies, Sega copies and Nintendo copies. Imitation and competition is the root of creativity. Get over it.

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I love how some people get overtly selective about who copied who. Microsoft copies, Sony copies, Sega copies and Nintendo copies. Imitation and competition is the root of creativity. Get over it.

It's just that when you blatently imitate something and don't innovate with it, that has nothing to do with creativity. I know this won't be the best analogy, but I'm thinking of how this relates to making a rearangement of a song. When someone makes a remix of a song that isn't theirs, it's very possible to get very creative with it, if they use the source as just the base of everything. That's why we don't like MIDI rips, because it's just blatent copying. There's no innovation involved, just choosing which higher-quality instruments to replace the old ones with.
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I love how some people get overtly selective about who copied who. Microsoft copies, Sony copies, Sega copies and Nintendo copies. Imitation and competition is the root of creativity. Get over it.

It's just that when you blatently imitate something and don't innovate with it, that has nothing to do with creativity. I know this won't be the best analogy, but I'm thinking of how this relates to making a rearangement of a song. When someone makes a remix of a song that isn't theirs, it's very possible to get very creative with it, if they use the source as just the base of everything. That's why we don't like MIDI rips, because it's just blatent copying. There's no innovation involved, just choosing which higher-quality instruments to replace the old ones with.

What about merely copying the style and improving upon it? If there's copycats, then that would also spurt someone else to become inventive in order to stand out. Thinking back about it, the reason why Nintendo adopted a mini-dvd format, went with a wildly divergent type of controller and has come up with an ambitious online plan is all because it tried the status quo since the N64 and Gamecube and has long since fallen behind the competition. Because Nintendo stuck to the cartridge and stuck to the norm for the most part (maybe except for the strange button format on the Gamecube..)

They knew they couldn't stand a chance since the competition was doing better and better with the established formula and look where Nintendo is now. Nintendo tried something new because they were urged on by the competition. They had to try something new or keep floundering in the home console market.

Also, like I just said, if you're saying that PS3's online plan is a shameless and almost downright sinful imitation of the VC, then VC is the same damn thing when it copied right off of XLA. And even the whole Wiimote idea isn't entirely new if you're taking into account some PC and Arcade peripherals that has toyed with the idea for a long time. See where that line on reasoning on blaming the 'imitation' leads to? Nintendo is the same as everyone else when it comes down to copying and taking inspiration from other sources.

On another note, a lot of the PS3 hate doesn't seem to ring true for many gamers outside the pricerange issue. Nobody really gives a damn about consoles 'copying' one another or about the console wars. They're just videogames and if there's games people want to play, then that's that. Sony obviously could have handled the public relations a lot better, but it's not like their core product in PS3 is the worse for it. Price and politics aside, the console still looks pretty solid in idea and technological aspects. And most importantly, game support is all but guaranteed. That's what truly matters in the end anyway.

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I love how some people get overtly selective about who copied who. Microsoft copies, Sony copies, Sega copies and Nintendo copies. Imitation and competition is the root of creativity. Get over it.

It's just that when you blatently imitate something and don't innovate with it, that has nothing to do with creativity. I know this won't be the best analogy, but I'm thinking of how this relates to making a rearangement of a song. When someone makes a remix of a song that isn't theirs, it's very possible to get very creative with it, if they use the source as just the base of everything. That's why we don't like MIDI rips, because it's just blatent copying. There's no innovation involved, just choosing which higher-quality instruments to replace the old ones with.

What about merely copying the style and improving upon it? If there's copycats, then that would also spurt someone else to become inventive in order to stand out. Thinking back about it, the reason why Nintendo adopted a mini-dvd format, went with a wildly divergent type of controller and has come up with an ambitious online plan is all because it tried the status quo since the N64 and Gamecube and has long since fallen behind the competition. Because Nintendo stuck to the cartridge and stuck to the norm for the most part (maybe except for the strange button format on the Gamecube..)

They knew they couldn't stand a chance since the competition was doing better and better with the established formula and look where Nintendo is now. Nintendo tried something new because they were urged on by the competition. They had to try something new or keep floundering in the home console market.

Also, like I just said, if you're saying that PS3's online plan is a shameless and almost downright sinful imitation of the VC, then VC is the same damn thing when it copied right off of XLA. And even the whole Wiimote idea isn't entirely new if you're taking into account some PC and Arcade peripherals that has toyed with the idea for a long time. See where that line on reasoning on blaming the 'imitation' leads to? Nintendo is the same as everyone else when it comes down to copying and taking inspiration from other sources.

On another note, a lot of the PS3 hate doesn't seem to ring true for many gamers outside the pricerange issue. Nobody really gives a damn about consoles 'copying' one another or about the console wars. They're just videogames and if there's games people want to play, then that's that. Sony obviously could have handled the public relations a lot better, but it's not like their core product in PS3 is the worse for it. Price and politics aside, the console still looks pretty solid in idea and technological aspects. And most importantly, game support is all but guaranteed. That's what truly matters in the end anyway.

I understand that copying is necessary for innovating in the industry. I guess my gripe with Sony is that they just don't innovate as much as I'd like them to. Yeah, Nintendo and Sony pretty much just copied the XLA, but I'm glad Nintendo is doing the Virtual Console because Nintendo has such a great backlog of games, and I'm sure they will make some awesome new games for VC that use Wiimote functions. At least they are able to offer something different. It's not like they are just putting the XLA on the Wii, because it's an entirely different set of games.

But maybe it's just that Sony hasn't been innovating very much lately. When they took the idea of the control stick, they used two, which became standard. But adding tilt sensors to PS3 controllers, that doesn't improve upon the Wiimote, and it doesn't offer anything different. Like the article I posted earlier said:

For the THIRD time Sony has kept the same boring controller with very little improvements (ripping off Nintendo's rumble pack and analog sticks are about the only improvements they have made on it since the original). Oh but this time they dropped rumble and added tilt functionality! This is an attempt to compete with Nintendo even thought it is severely crippled in comparison to the Wii controller. So in the end Sony is left with a controller that is not nearly as revolutionary as the Wii controller is, nor is it a perfectly fine-tuned traditional controller like the Xbox 360’s. All they have is a mutated hybrid that wants to sit on the fence without deciding whether it will be traditional or progressive. It seems very gimmicky. They either need to be all in or all out.
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As far as the tilt sensor on the PS3, I'm perhaps the only one who is looking forward to it a bit. Yeah, it was tacked on pretty last minute, and they weren't prepared to show it off very well at E3, but by the time the system is released it should be able to do what you'd expect it to do.

I don't get why so many people are against it. The ONLY reason that people talk badly about the tilt functions is because they are pissed that Sony "copied" Nintendo, even though the controller is completely different. One is a wand, one is a pad with tilt functions. When it Wii remote was announced everyone was all like, "OOOOO COOL NEAT-O MOVE MY HAND AND WOWZERS!!" then when Sony mentioned the PS3 controller can do motion detecting stuff everyone was all "PMG $ONY DOES IT AGAIN *SPUTTER* *RAGE*". Personally I'm not sold on the motion sensing thing. I think it's a gimmick that will get old, like the stylus on DS. But I like the route Sony is taking with their controller. The tilt functions can be used by developers if they choose, to enhance APPROPRIATE games. For instance, you might have tilt functionality on a flight sim or a golf game. Or it could be a little part of the control, like in a platformer such as Spyro the Dragon. You use the main controls 90% of the time, but for those flying parts you use the tilt. With the Wii, you're going to use that remote no watter WHAT. Developers will have to force the remote functionalty into where it's not really necessary or even fun. Sure first party titles and some other releases will use it really well. But how many half-ass failures will we see developed by 3rd parties? How many will they be willing to risk, when they could make a 360/PS3 cross platform game with a large consumer base?

Sure the PS3 controller is not that innovative, but it is the most VERSATILE of the three consoles. And considering the wide array of games the PS3 will have for it, that makes the most sense.

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