Sonic the Hedgehog 3 - Angel Island Zone - Big Band Cover

[Bowlerhat]

Hey,

So, I made this Big Band arrangement of the Angel Island Zone from Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and I don't really now how I can record it the best way. The recording I made now is from a rehearsal, so it isn't perfect by any means, but I'm pretty sure the quality it is in now isn't good enough anyway to get submitted. I think I should use multiple microphones, and that is a possibility, but even then I don't know where to place them and how to mix the multiple audio files together. Does anyone have any experience with recording big ensembles? Or just any advice in general?

Any feedback regarding the arrangement would be cool as well. I can't change anything in the sheets anymore because that would only confuse the players, but some opinions are always appreciated and will be included in my next arrangements. Do take note that:

- At this recording we were missing 2.5 trumpets out of four. 

- I pasted multiple parts of the rehearsal behind each other so that people wouldn't have to listen to all the talking and practicing and stuff. 

- The players are still quite unfamiliar with the piece and thus make quite some mistakes. 

- The 1st trumpet is supposed to play the last few notes an octave lower...

 

Thanks in advance

Remix: https://soundcloud.com/jorik-bergman/samba-del-anjos

Source:

 

[Zorrakh]

I'm curious, how're you missing a half of a trumpet?

I really enjoy the arrangement. While it's not something I've written for, I remember liking the big bands at my local jazz festival years ago, and this brings back fond memories of those festivals. I really enjoy the combination of samba and big band, and it really does lend itself well for the source track. As I posted on Soundcloud, I love the buildup together with the percussion line. I was waiting for there to be more of an "oomph" right before the percussion dropped out, but I still like it.

As for recording, are you planning on a studio/studio-esque recording, or more of a live recording? If it's the former, the book, Modern Music Recording by David Miles Huber and Robert E. Runstein may be helpful, especially for understanding recording placement. For brass, they recommend placing mics slightly off-center and a foot away from the bell, and trombones can often share a mic between two players, again a foot away and slightly off to the side to avoid picking up wind.

If it is live, you might be able to get a hold of The Runaway Five, who arranged "Big-Band Battlefield", and see what they have to say, as their work was evaluated and passed by the judges.

Again, I really enjoyed this arrangement of Angel Island, and while I didn't grow up with old-school Sonic like other members here, I'm glad you reminded me of the good times of going to the jazz festival with my family. Thanks for sharing!

[Bowlerhat]

6 hours ago, Zorrakh said:

I'm curious, how're you missing a half of a trumpet?

Ah, we were missing three trumpets, but we managed to find one replacement, but he hadn't seen the sheets any time before so he hardly plays anything. But at a few times you can hear him. 

Also, it's great to hear that you enjoyed it. Since we don't have the time to do a studio-esque recording I'm going to record it at one of the performances. So it will be a live recording. The page at Big-Band Battlefield says that he just recorded it on a handheld recorder, which is around the same I did for this version. But I'll try a few different places to record from. 

 

[HankTheSpankTankJankerson]

What were your intentions behind inserting the original back in at 2:30?

[Bowlerhat]

1 hour ago, HankTheSpankTankJankerson said:

What were your intentions behind inserting the original back in at 2:30?

In this big band project we did for school we had to make a big band piece inspired by our musical 'roots'. A Columbian girl made a piece derived from latin american music, a Korean girl made an arrangement from some Arrirangs, another composer who listened to a lot of classical music when he was young made an arrangement of the Lacrimosa, from Mozart's Requiem. And I made an arrangement of the Angel Island zone, because my youth solely existed of playing Sonic 3. 

For the project we had to include a small 'window' to allow the audience during concerts to know where our inspiration comes from, and to give them a view of the original piece or style. So I included a small section with the original tune playing the intro of the song, to give the audience a look into the original piece which I based my arrangement on. Because it's very likely that none of the people watching the concerts will actually know the original music. 

[Garpocalypse]

1 hour ago, Bowlerhat said:

In this big band project we did for school we had to make a big band piece inspired by our musical 'roots'. A Columbian girl made a piece derived from latin american music, a Korean girl made an arrangement from some Arrirangs, another composer who listened to a lot of classical music when he was young made an arrangement of the Lacrimosa, from Mozart's Requiem. And I made an arrangement of the Angel Island zone, because my youth solely existed of playing Sonic 3.

This guy....  

This guy gets it.  

[Bowlerhat]

Hey again!!

So, I've got an update on this thing. 

 

Everything that has improved:

- This time it's recorded with the full band playing, so no missing members.

- Despite being perfect, there are a lot less mistakes. 

- Everything's played in one take.

- I recorded the brass from a bit closer by, improving the sound quality. 

- It's faster, so there isn't such a big tempo gap between the original and the big band. 

- The players are more accustomed to the piece, giving everything a more unified and nice ambiance. 

 

Everything that still could use some improvements:

- The playing can still be tighter. 

- There could be fewer mistakes in general.

- I really have to time the original audio better with the big band. I keep messing that up...

- The rhythm section is still quite distant. 

- The rest audio is perhaps still improvable. 

- Anything else? Please tell me.

 

So, yeah... What I'm especially wondering is if the audio quality that it has right now is good enough. I personally think it sounds nice, but as the arranger I'm quite biased :p. Of course, there are still some wrong notes on quite some places, but since the players are really really good, that will improve with more rehearsals. I will try to record everything better, but recording a big band is really hard, because those guys are playing pretty dang loud. So if anyone with knowledge about the judging criteria has something to comment on that it would be greatly appreciated. Also, any other feedback, comments, things you really liked, things you couldn't stand at all and anything else source related is highly encouraged. Not just for me, but especially for the players.

https://soundcloud.com/jorik-bergman/samba-del-anjos-2-0

 

 

[Bowlerhat]

Okay, I've got another update. 

It's getting better and better. This time it's recorded with two microphones, one from up close and one from far away. I tried to capture the rhythm section better, which I think went quite okay. 

There aren't any big mistakes here in the playing, but sadly at this recording the 3rd trumpet is missing, which makes the trumpet section sound a bit emptier. There's also a bit of clapping and wooing during my iPod solo, but nothing that's too disturbing. 

I think this is almost ready yet, but as there is another performance next Monday I hope to get a nice live recording then with all four trumpets. If anyone has any feedback on the recording, arranging, playing or anything else, please let me know. Every little word and thought is appreciated!!!

 

https://soundcloud.com/jorik-bergman/samba-del-anjos-3-0

 

[Smooth4lyfe1987]

Oh much improvement over the first one!

I love that cafe music feel to this. Personally I like it, I love the arrangement. I dont know if its possible, if the trumpet or the instruments that carry the main melody could be louder. Maybe thats the result of your 3rd trumpet missing lol

 

So did you play along with the ipod track?

[Bowlerhat]

10 hours ago, Smooth4lyfe1987 said:

So did you play along with the ipod track?

Contrary to popular believe I'm actually not able to play four trombones at the same time, so I just reserved that job to the trombone section. I was just standing next to a microphone with my Ipod for the whole piece and pressed the start button at the right moment. Which, despite being quite easy still managed to get quite some applause during performances and rehearsals. 

[Bowlerhat]

Okay, so this is done. I've got a final version, and I'm quite happy with it. I'm switching this to evaluation to see if it's good enough for the judges. 

 

Source:

 

Final version: 

 

 

Enjoy!!!

[Rozovian]

eval

Something about the drums doesn't sit right with me. Could be a combination of distance to microphone, the reverb of the room, the panning/mic placement, and any number of other factors. Maybe it's a performance thing. I'm not sure. So I'm being really helpful here.

Seems like this is recorded as if heard from the position of an audience member. Sounds fine on speakers, but not as good on headphones. This is a very subjective thing, because someone who enjoys the sense of being on location might not have a problem with this. So, more subjective, super-helpful feedback.

I'm not a big fan of the audience participation here. I don't terribly mind some cheering and clapping, but when it becomes distinct words, and/or too loud, it bothers me. As does the use of the original source in here. It makes sense for the performance, but I don't like it. But I don't have to. Again, subjective criticisms.

More relevant, more to the point, I'm a bit worried about the source usage. The structure is basically source (in samba) -> soloing section -> source (ipad solo) -> repeat of theme -> end. It's probably fine, but I'm hoping there's some source bits in the soloing section that I'm just too obtuse to hear, since that would alleviate most of my source-related issues. The structure is rather conservative, but I don't think that's enough to reject it.

The performance is fine. It's got groove. I'm not well enough versed in the genre and live performances to tell beyond that I don't have any particular problems with it. It's enjoyable and I can't easily come up with anything to complain about when it comes to performance, so at the very least, it's okay.

On the production side, there's my aforementioned aversion to "on location"-type recordings, and I think a different placement of mics and instruments would yield a better recording. I think I'd prefer the drums centered and possibly a bit closer to the mic, and the rest of the band placed at the appropriate distance based on instrument levels and prominence in the arrangement. But that's subjective. It's a bit reverb-y and the audience noise is rather loud, but I don't think that's enough to reject the track.

It's difficult to say whether it's a pass or a rejection. There's plenty of good stuff here, like the genre adaptation itself and afaict the performance. There's nothing that makes me say "easy no" or anything like that. Most of my crits are subjective, and I'm struggling to draw a line between what's my personal taste and an ocr-wide standard. My assessment is that it could very well pass, although it's not my kind of track. What's important is that you're happy with it, and I don't see why you shouldn't be. Sub it. If it's a no, it's a no with better feedback than I can provide, and if it's a yes... then it's a yes. And I'm leaning towards the latter. Nice work, y'all.

[Bowlerhat]

Haha, thanks for the evaluation. I was hoping for something a bit more definite, but I'm certainly going to sub it now. But if there's someone else with some different subjective opinions about some of the things Rozovian mentioned, I'd be really interested in hearing it. Also, to answer your question about the source usage:

 

23 hours ago, Rozovian said:

More relevant, more to the point, I'm a bit worried about the source usage. The structure is basically source (in samba) -> soloing section -> source (ipad solo) -> repeat of theme -> end. It's probably fine, but I'm hoping there's some source bits in the soloing section that I'm just too obtuse to hear, since that would alleviate most of my source-related issues. The structure is rather conservative, but I don't think that's enough to reject it.

I wouldn't dare calling you obtuse, but there is some some source bits in the soloing section. At 1: 32 there is a trombone part derived from the motive played from 0:26 to 0:39 which is from the original source. At 1:52 there is an answer in the saxophone section which is directly quoted from 1:04 and some other parts in the song as well. Unfortunately in this performance the alto is soloing right through it which makes it a bit hidden. At other performances it was more easily recognizable, which is one of the risks with combining improvisation and written out sections. 

 

Again, thanks for all the feedback and comments and stuff. I'll submit it and hope for the best.