Trouble With Techno

[Legion Kreinak]

I'm new to this whole remixing and music making business, and to this forum. I've been a fan of techno/trance/goa stuff for awhile now, as well as video game music. I'm here to ask something more or less basic, but I didn't see it answered anywhere (like Zircon's tips sticky):

When I start to make a song, I tend to get along fine for the first 30 seconds or so. The problem comes at this point - I have trouble deciding when to add in more instruments, when (if ever) to switch the bassline, what stuff should be changed and the like.

I don't know the technical/musical terms, but bridges (carrying from one part of a song to another) seem apparent in techno, despite the lack of vocals. I basically am looking for some helpful tips in the construction of a song.

Do you keep the same general melody/bass driving the song the entire way, then throw in other instruments? When do you cut certain stuff out, and how do you do it without it sounding like two seperate songs?

There are a lot of samples I've heard. I use FruityLoops. Lots of good stuff there. The thing is, whatever I try and decipher from other songs doesn't carry over so well.

Help is appreciated.

[Yoozer]

Can you specify exactly what kind of techno? That term is ambiguous at best - it usually means something different from the US to Europe .

http://di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html

Anyway, what helps is to get yourself a track where you like the structure. Then you start playing it with one hand near the pause button. Take a sheet of graph paper and put it in front of you, widest side towards you. Alternatively, you can do this in Excel if you wanted to. For Excel: in the top row, write down the names of what you hear - bassdrum, bassline, hihat, snare, sampled loop, vocals, whatever - depends on the song you've picked.

Every row below that is one pattern; 16 steps in Rebirth/FL Studio/ReDrum or (usually) 4 times the bassdrum.

If the song starts with only a bassdrum (most extended mixes do), mark that block with a color or an x or whatever.

Things should be looking like this, then.

Make as many "elements" columns as you like.

Once you're done analyzing, you have a song structure. Try to apply that to your track and see if it works. If it doesn't, try another track - maybe it's more like yours.

Try to understand why a DJ switches on and off parts, or uses snare rolls, cymbals, etc. Try to think like a DJ - you have to entertain a crowd here. Analyze a few songs like that, and for the real challenge - get a track you haven't heard and try to predict the build-up for yourself.

Once you can do that you'll make your own tracks with a little more confidence and thought, and you'll get out of the looping problem.

[Legion Kreinak]

Hrm, good food for thought there. I love Ishkur's site, I was trying to remembr what it was.

The techno I want to make, in particular is Buttrock Goa. Ahh, look under Trance, then buttrock goa on that site. Check number 3. It's my buddy Dark Soho. That's the stuff I was thinking of when I got into this, and there it is now.

Can FL5 make stuff like that alone, or am I going to need more equipment and software? I have no keyboard or anything, and I dunno if that's necessary or what. People seem to make pretty good stuff with FL alone, but maybe I'm just naive.

Thanks for the help so far.

[OverCoat]

Eventually you'll just begin to feel where the song needs to change.

Also, if you want to get the attention of people who seriously love electronic music, don't call it "techno." The proper term for the dancey styles now is EDM. The rest [e.g. ambient, idm] you just call... not techno.

[Legion Kreinak]

Well, I'll just say Buttrock Goa then - 'cause that's my favorite. Dark Soho is my favorite artist, in the whole electronic music genre.

So can FL make tracks like those entirely, or do I need more than that? I know there's the tutorial on what you need but...I'd like to know which types of equipment I'd need specifically for making this type of music.

By the by, if anyone wants, I'll host some stuff up on a site so you can sample what I'm talking about. Might allow you to help me better.

[OverCoat]

You can do any kind of electronic music with FL right out of the box. You can get it bundled with some decent synths which sound great when you go beyond the presets.

[Legion Kreinak]

You can do any kind of electronic music with FL right out of the box. You can get it bundled with some decent synths which sound great when you go beyond the presets.

Don't most techno artists use hardware (outside of a home PC) to make their music? I always had the impression they had studios, with keyboards and all sorts of equipment.

Can I download "add-on" synths or sound packs?

Is there any way to break down a song and use the sounds from them to use them in new songs?

[avaris]

You can break down the songs somewhat but it's a huge pain in the ass. You are better off spending your time learning how to manipulate and create new and original sounds using your synths.

Also with the right setup you can make professional sounding music on your computer pretty easy. If you know enough about production and mastering you can really get your stuff sounding pretty damn good. Having a good sound card on your computer in my experience has made a huge difference.

Go listen to bLiNd's FFX 'White Skies' or Donkey Kong Country 'Industrial Fear'. Also SGX and sephfire Mario Paint 'Intense Colour' those were all done on the 100% on the computer.

[Splunkle]

Don't most techno artists use hardware (outside of a home PC) to make their music? I always had the impression they had studios, with keyboards and all sorts of equipment.

Not in this modern age of the virtual studio. Lots of people only use the computer, and produce all sorts of stuff - from straight EDM through to classical symphony type stuff.

Can I download "add-on" synths or sound packs?

Yes! Allow me to introduce you to the fantastic world of KVR. Fruity does come with some preety neat synths though, and it pays to learn how to use them. As a general rule of thumb, its better to know how to use a few synths really well, than to have 15,000 and only use the presets.

Is there any way to break down a song and use the sounds from them to use them in new songs?

This is called sampling. It may be illegal, depending on just where on the planet you live, but its also a time honored tradition in electronic styles of music. I'm no samplining guru, so I shan't talk about the hows and whys, as I would most probably be incorrect.

[OverCoat]

Go listen to bLiNd's FFX 'White Skies' or Donkey Kong Country 'Industrial Fear' those were all done on the 100% on the computer.

I think bLiNd uses a Lexicon reverb, though I don't know how recently or if he still uses it.

Not a synth, but it's hardware!

Also, a lot of electronic artists will tell you hardware is just so much more fun to use! A lot of people still use tons of hardware, especially analog stuff, because they think that if they use analog synths their songs will somehow be "warmer" but that's ridiculous. Basically it comes down to what kind of control you want over your song. Some people could never give up their old analog mixing boards because a) they still sound great and they're much more responsive and user-friendly than clicking around in a virtual mixer, one knob at a time. There's also the added advantage of having more computer resources available, since all the sounds are being processed outside of the PC.

The downside to having a large studio is that, well, it's large. I actually prefer having everything inside a single box, which is totally possible given the power of today's computer.

The only thing I would recommend is to forget your mouse and get a midi controller. You'll save so much time otherwise wasted by clicking around for everything.

[zircon]

sgx and myself also work "in the box" - eg. all software.

[The Vagrance]

Lots of people are working all software. That said, it depends on the user. My advice is to nab a basic synth (Synth1 is great) to learn synthesis on, then learn it inside and out, then move onto other synths and apply the same knowledge and you'll learn how to do stuff fairly quicker. After you think you have synthesis down, put down ~$200 and get yourself a nice software synth, I reccomend Z3ta+ highly (as do many other people) and its almost ot the point of industry standard. It can ceate a huge variety of sounds and its a great synth to start learning modulation matrices on. Then later you can move on to others (like Sytrus, the NI synths, Fabfilter, Zebra, Rpture, etc.) and you'll be apply to transfer your knowledge from synth to synth. As a starter synth though, the subtractor is perfect as its small, simple and suprisingly powerful (if used correctly), but thats only in Reason :/.

[SnappleMan]

Trouble With Techno

[SnappleMan]

sgx and myself also work "in the box" - eg. all software.

You keep Sixto in a box? I mean, I know he's Mexican, but this....

[avaris]

sgx and myself also work "in the box" - eg. all software.

You keep Sixto in a box? I mean, I know he's Mexican, but this....

Hahaha...

Yeah def urself a midi keyboard/controller.

[Legion Kreinak]

Go listen to bLiNd's FFX 'White Skies' or Donkey Kong Country 'Industrial Fear' those were all done on the 100% on the computer.

I think bLiNd uses a Lexicon reverb, though I don't know how recently or if he still uses it.

Not a synth, but it's hardware!

Also, a lot of electronic artists will tell you hardware is just so much more fun to use! A lot of people still use tons of hardware, especially analog stuff, because they think that if they use analog synths their songs will somehow be "warmer" but that's ridiculous. Basically it comes down to what kind of control you want over your song. Some people could never give up their old analog mixing boards because a) they still sound great and they're much more responsive and user-friendly than clicking around in a virtual mixer, one knob at a time. There's also the added advantage of having more computer resources available, since all the sounds are being processed outside of the PC.

The downside to having a large studio is that, well, it's large. I actually prefer having everything inside a single box, which is totally possible given the power of today's computer.

The only thing I would recommend is to forget your mouse and get a midi controller. You'll save so much time otherwise wasted by clicking around for everything.

MIDI Controller? What's that? Any recommendations on a specific product?

[OverCoat]

midi controllers are basically representations of instruments that send midi data instead of sound - you can get MIDI keyboards, MIDI guitars, MIDI wind controllers, etc. Of course, what most people think when you say "midi controller" is something like this Oxygen 8:

Cute little thing. You can't use it all by itself, since there are no built-in sounds, but you can set all those knobs to do stuff inside your music software via a MIDI or USB cable.

[suzumebachi]

On a semi unrelated related note, I wonder how hard it would be to build your own midi controller. I have a midi keyboard, but unfortunately it doesn't have pitch or mod wheels. I wonder if I could make (or buy) some stand alone midi CC wheels/pedals/knobs for controlling random shit and shit.

[Legion Kreinak]

Don't most techno artists use hardware (outside of a home PC) to make their music? I always had the impression they had studios, with keyboards and all sorts of equipment.

Not in this modern age of the virtual studio. Lots of people only use the computer, and produce all sorts of stuff - from straight EDM through to classical symphony type stuff.

Can I download "add-on" synths or sound packs?

Yes! Allow me to introduce you to the fantastic world of KVR. Fruity does come with some preety neat synths though, and it pays to learn how to use them. As a general rule of thumb, its better to know how to use a few synths really well, than to have 15,000 and only use the presets.

Is there any way to break down a song and use the sounds from them to use them in new songs?

This is called sampling. It may be illegal, depending on just where on the planet you live, but its also a time honored tradition in electronic styles of music. I'm no samplining guru, so I shan't talk about the hows and whys, as I would most probably be incorrect.

The KVR site doesn't work, by the way.

[zircon]

It's temporarily down.

In regards to MIDI controllers, I used to use an Edirol PCR-30. Synthy action, kind of clunky, but got the job done. Good price too. I now use an M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, which has weighted action (more realistic) and a buttload of knobs, sliders, and buttons that are all assignable. My only complaint is that it's really heavy and really big - it's three times the weight of some other 88 key controllers.

[Legion Kreinak]

It's temporarily down.

In regards to MIDI controllers, I used to use an Edirol PCR-30. Synthy action, kind of clunky, but got the job done. Good price too. I now use an M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, which has weighted action (more realistic) and a buttload of knobs, sliders, and buttons that are all assignable. My only complaint is that it's really heavy and really big - it's three times the weight of some other 88 key controllers.

So a MIDI controller is used in conjunction with something like FruityLoops? I'd like to see/feel how one works before I actually used it. What do you set the buttons to? Different instruments and stuff? Or do you still choose a lot of things with your mouse?

Sorry, hard for me to imagine how it works, exactly.

[Souliarc]

It's temporarily down.

In regards to MIDI controllers, I used to use an Edirol PCR-30. Synthy action, kind of clunky, but got the job done. Good price too. I now use an M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, which has weighted action (more realistic) and a buttload of knobs, sliders, and buttons that are all assignable. My only complaint is that it's really heavy and really big - it's three times the weight of some other 88 key controllers.

So a MIDI controller is used in conjunction with something like FruityLoops? I'd like to see/feel how one works before I actually used it. What do you set the buttons to? Different instruments and stuff? Or do you still choose a lot of things with your mouse?

Sorry, hard for me to imagine how it works, exactly.

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/keyboard-controllers/buying-guide.php

And the link that led to it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midi_controller

[Legion Kreinak]

It's temporarily down.

In regards to MIDI controllers, I used to use an Edirol PCR-30. Synthy action, kind of clunky, but got the job done. Good price too. I now use an M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, which has weighted action (more realistic) and a buttload of knobs, sliders, and buttons that are all assignable. My only complaint is that it's really heavy and really big - it's three times the weight of some other 88 key controllers.

So a MIDI controller is used in conjunction with something like FruityLoops? I'd like to see/feel how one works before I actually used it. What do you set the buttons to? Different instruments and stuff? Or do you still choose a lot of things with your mouse?

Sorry, hard for me to imagine how it works, exactly.

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/keyboard-controllers/buying-guide.php

And the link that led to it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midi_controller

Thanks for that.

So, what's a keyboard control in Fruity? There's this song with the first pattern as KB Ctrl, and when you select to sample the pattern, you hear nothing, but it has all these notes selected in a piano roll.

Then, the pattern below that is "Sym Syn" with the melody of the song looping in a piano roll.

[Splunkle]

Fruity Keyboard Controller is a way of controlling settings via notes. I suggest you consult the help file for more infomation - once you know about linking automation, the function of it will become apparant. =P

[Yoozer]

Don't most techno artists use hardware (outside of a home PC) to make their music?

The music instrument manufacturers have had a very big and important goal, and it's hard to understand the whole story behind electronic music if you don't know that goal.

That goal was realism. Specifically, how to make a really good acoustic piano without having to lug one with you on stage.

Because a synthesizer could do more than that, essentially what they aimed for was a complete set of instruments in a box. Presets, patch sheets, whatnot - all of those are testament to that. You won't find "Techno Lead 1" on a vintage synthesizer, but "Trumpet", "Flute" or "Accordeon", definitely. That you could make other sounds with it was a bonus, but not an important one.

During their quest they've experimented with different methods of synthesis - first analog subtractive, then in 1983, FM came and blew every analog subtractive synth away, because it was different and, in some aspects, much better to imitate instruments; plus you'd get 16 voices of polyphony - quite amazing, because before that 8 was the maximum and that package could already break a roadie's spine. FM's heydays however were much shorter lived than the analog generation, because Roland and Korg struck back with the D-50 and the M1; and those beat the Yamaha DX7 (which used FM) again in realism.

In the meantime, nobody wanted the analog gear anymore; it wasn't realistic. Hence, early techno producers could pick up TR808/TR909/TB303s for practically free - and that's what they did.

But that's not all; the TB303 which was essentially an electronic bass player for drummers (and its much less popular counterpart, the TR606 which was an electronic drummer for bass players) was used in a completely different way. Instead of setting it to a certain fixed sound, knobs were tweaked. Instead of meticulously programming a song, you'd leave the batteries out and end up with a completely random and alien-sounding melody. Instead of playing it back at the speed of a slow rock song, they'd crank it up to 130bpm.

Because Roland's gear could "talk" between eachother, it meant that the drums and bass could accurately sync up; mechanical electronic music with machine-set tempos was the result.

This sequence of events was sort of repeated with software. Something cheap is given to people who would usually not make music, would have no formal education, and because they would approach the instrument in a completely different way than the makers or their contemporaries of another genre intended, you'd get unique results.

I always had the impression they had studios, with keyboards and all sorts of equipment.

That's after they manage to sell a bunch of records. Before that, bedrooms with cheap gear instead of the expensive new stuff.

Even then, having an instrument or downloading a plugin does not make you a musician; using it does. Techno has gelled as a genre on itself because the conventions were laid down by people; It's usually good to know these conventions before you can break them or transcend them.

What is a drum machine otherwise than something that plays back synthetic percussion with an inhuman precision? You don't need hardware for that, unless you are a purist and want to constrain yourself in exactly the same way as the pioneers did.

If you worry about using hardware or software, you're worrying about the wrong thing. Use what you can work with and, most of the times, can afford. There's very little that's impossible in music; it's almost always a matter of time and effort.

Can I download "add-on" synths or sound packs?

That's the whole idea.

Is there any way to break down a song and use the sounds from them to use them in new songs?

You can't unravel a song on CD or MP3. You can find acapella versions of the vocals (it's a legally grey area and we won't help you), or instrumental versions (or imitations thereof) on either the CD single itself or karaoke compilations. Not of all songs, and almost never in techno, because if an artist would want you to remix his work, he'd give you the most important samples he knows you can't imitate (certain effects, speech, vocals, whatever) and will leave the rest up to you.