Emunator Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (new version 3/2/2023) (old) ReMixer name: Zach Action Real name: Zach Herrmann Email: UserID: 30456 Remix link (16-bit wav): Game: Final Fantasy VI Name: "Jumped in the Serpent Trench" Source: The Serpent Trench (minor "Opening Theme" source) I've always loved The Serpent Trench theme. When Balance and Ruin came out, "River of Sine Waves" was one of the first tracks I skipped to. When I eventually sat down at the piano to learn the main chords, the song bore a striking resemblance to Radiohead's "Pyramid Song," and here we are. Both "The Serpent Trench" and "Pyramid Song" are incredibly repetitive. "Pyramid Song" gets away with it because its odd feeling of time (still debated on the internet to this day) keeps the listener interested, and of course, haunting lyrics don't hurt either. There's really not much to the original "The Serpent Trench", but those underlying maj7 chords somehow keep driving the track to infinity, never resolving. Likewise, my version keeps the repetition of both the source track and the inspirational track, but hopefully in a haunting, beautiful way that the listener wants to keep looping. I used the FFVI "Opening Theme" dissonant building chord for the end cacophony, which sounds lovely with the Serpent Trench string runs under it. I feel this is a good companion case to my previously accepted "Mario for Airports 1-1," and I'm hoping someday to get to work on a Chrono Trigger "Strains of Insanity" Nine Inch Nails-inspired remix. Thank you for taking the time to consider this submission! EDIT (3/2/23): List of judges' issues/fixes: Tape hiss removed I removed the resonant filter from the string runs at the beginning (and throughout) for clarity. Also removed Little Radiator from them which was adding the "crackle." A "warble" at 0:30 – I'm not sure what this is referring to, as I don't hear it and there's no inherent effect that would be causing such a thing. I think maybe it was just an interplay of the strings and the piano at that particular spot...? If so, perhaps the change mentioned above has fixed it. Low end – I retooled the bass, kick, and the master to clarify the low end. Drum clipping/crackle – Another one I'm not sure about, because as the judges say, there actually is not any clipping. I think cleaning up the low end may have done the trick, and I also scaled back the final limiter a little, though it wasn't doing a whole lot to begin with. Rebalanced all tracks to make the mix a little less busy and let both the guitar and the final vocal step forward. Last but not least, two judges note a high-frequency noise to the point of inducing nausea! I'm a bit baffled at this one, because while I'm not surprised that my ever-aging ears don't hear anything, a frequency graph doesn't SHOW anything like that. I did do a steep low-pass at 18k to get rid of anything truly ultra-sonic, and I notched out a bit of the master around 12.5k. Really about the only instrument or track hanging out in that region is the ride cymbal, so I notched it as well and also lowered the volume on it a little. If the sound is still perceived by MindWanderer or prophetik's wife, I would love for them to take the track into an editor and sweep through to find the offending frequency and please let me know! I think that addresses any and every issue pointed out by a judge. These were quick and easy changes and please let me know if any issue still persists and I will address it. Also, I mentioned in my original submission that I was working on a Chrono Trigger "Strains of Insanity" mix. That one is almost done, but it went a completely different non-NIN (lol) direction, so if this FFVI is published, please do not include that NIN blurb in the write-up. Thank you and I anxiously await further news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Cool sound to this; definitely nails the "Pyramid Song" style in adapting "The Serpent Trench," so this should have some fun crossover appeal. I didn't like the hiss that was present from the start, which came off like unintended distortion; that part wasn't a stylistic homage to Radiohead either. Then I hear the warbling at :36; I still didn't like that part there, then from 1:10-1:13, the drums sounded like they were clipping (and again to a lesser extent at 2:59-3:01). Nice guitar lead at 1:32, though it was getting swallowed up into the rest of the soundscape, even moreso from 2:07-on. I liked the voice taking over the melody at 2:48 as well, which helped this not drag out. I still don't get what the hiss, distortion, or mud were for, as they don't add anything helpful, but I'll have to live with it. Would love to hear another mixing pass at this, but the concept and execution is still solid. Love the concept, Zach, and certainly hope you follow through with the NIN concept and send that one over too to complement the others. Very intrigued to hear what other ideas you've got cooking! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Thanks for sending over that comparison track. It was really helpful in explaining how the length and repetitiveness of this was an intentional artistic decision. I'm not totally sold on it, since lyrics help make a repetitive piece feel less so, but on the other hand I can't understand anything NIN is saying anyway. The production issues bother me more than they do Larry. I immediately checked to see if the track was clipping when I heard that crackle, and was surprised to see it wasn't. There's also an ultra high frequency noise that needs to be filtered out---it's not super loud, and it's right at the edge of my hearing range, but it's stabbing at my eardrums to the point where I can't listen to anything anymore; I have to be done voting for a bit until I recover. I'm not willing to YES this as it is, but a generous low pass will fix the latter problem in a couple of seconds. I'm not sure if the crackle is as quick a fix, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, and I can't enjoy this piece with it there. YES/CONDITIONAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I'm on board with the arrangement here. The source isn't the most inspiring thing in the world, but I love the connection you made with Radiohead, and fusing the two together was a great decision. The dreamy vocals that drift in and out add much more feeling to the piece than I feel they should, sparse as they are. A delightful touch. The mixing does leave something more to be desired, however - particularly right from the get-go that hiss just sounds like the piano was recorded with a terrible mic. Thankfully, the hiss soon becomes hidden in a wash of reverb, which I guess is one way to do it..! Fortunately though, the massive amount of reverb on everything doesn't completely kill the details, and you've just about gotten away with it. What I found most interesting was actually the ending, where all we hear are the loooooong reverberations playing back against each other and building these intricate resonant textures. I found myself wishing you'd explored that avenue further, with some cleaner production to better highlight the patterns ebbing and flowing from the feedback, without accentuating the 'crackle'. As it stands, I'd say there's enough here to pass, if I put down some of the production drawbacks as going for a 'lo-fi' aesthetic. I certainly enjoyed floating off for a few minutes whilst listening to it. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 interesting crossover idea. definitely works. mastering-wise, i definitely hear where my fellow judges are coming from. the clipping/distortion at the beginning is distracting and doesn't sound good. the bass and kick have a ton of extra bass boosted in there that sounds very unnatural - a huge peak in the ~90hz range, with a bunch of sub-bass content around 30-33hz that is likely adding to it feeling distorted. the guitar lead is overwhelmed by the backing pads and drums to the point where it is hard to hear. i believe MW is talking about the 12-13khz range for there being something high pitched - i can't hear it, but my wife can, and i get a bit of a turned stomach from listening to it as well. that'll need to be cribbed out (a tight notch filter could do it, as could a general low pass to fluff up that freq range more). the arrangement and concept is fun. it's pretty straightforward melodic work, but the vocals add a ton to the drifting feeling, and the open maj7 chords also lend themselves to that too. i like this a lot, honestly. i think it needs some mastering fixes that would be simple. either a notch or a low pass to fix the high freq, and a high pass to filter out the sub content, and this is there. the EQ boost you've given your bass/kick could be turned down a bit too so it's not so boomy. this is probably OK to pass right now, but i'd like to see those changes take place before i am unconditional with my vote. YES CONDITIONAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 Zach sent us an updated version that I've added to the top of the original post which aims to address all of the issues raised here - @prophetik music @MindWanderer please take a listen to this new version and see if this flips your conditional vote. I'm going to throw my vote of confidence behind this, as well. Pyramid Song is absolutely iconic, and I love how much you wear your inspiration on your sleeve here. I don't think anyone could perfectly recreate the skittering, fragile, organic rhythmic kilter of Radiohead's original, but you got damn close with the tools at your disposal. Your instrumental pallet is very fleshed out, with every element complimenting one another and sharing space against a backdrop of crunchy drums and hypnotic piano. Any production issues that were present in the first version feel sufficiently ironed out, I have no reservations here! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 12 hours ago, Emunator said: Zach sent us an updated version that I've added to the top of the original post which aims to address all of the issues raised here Quite the improvement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) The crackle is fixed, but that ultra-high frequency noise is still there. It's hard to pinpoint because it's quiet, but damages my hearing something fierce and now my ears are just ringing. I wouldn't be surprised if most people can't even hear it at all, though. I'll let my ears rest and come back to it later. Edit: 24 hours later and my ears sre still ringing a little, but they're recovered enough to hear what's going on with this track. The noise kicks in at about 0:46.75. It's in the middle of a phrase, so I don't know why it starts right there. I can see it clearly on Clementine's visualizer, though: I have to stop now or I'm going to mess up my ears even worse than they already are. I wouldn't be surprised if this passes, since I seem to be the only judge who can hear it (though maybe proph's wife can take a listen). If it does get posted as-is, it needs to come with a warning label. Edited March 17, 2023 by MindWanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I never listened to the first version, but it seems all the issues with highs, lows and crackle have been fixed. I find no dealbreaker production issues, and I don't see any egregious frequencies on SPAN. I am glad I don't have dog-whistle ears. The arrangement and instrumentation is pretty straightforward and doesn't change once it gets started, but this is a dreamy romp through the source material and the arrangement does what it sets out to do. Really nice. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I checked with Zach again, but he's tapped out of ideas to fix it, so this one might just set off dogs and MindWanderer in perpetuity. Quote As we discussed before, I have no way of fixing something I can't see or hear. I've tried numerous frequency analysis tools, I've tried filters, and I can't see anything offending or understand what would be causing such a thing. I even lowered the pitch of the entire track down five steps, which would make any sort of high-pitched sound completely audible to anybody's ears, and nothing stuck out. So I just am completely flummoxed by MW's comments/analysis and I have no further remedies to try outside of what I did for the re-submitted version last month. At any rate, thank you for your time and I look forward to seeing the track posted! I have a new track to submit and just have to take the time to sit and do the write-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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