Pro's and Con's of Audio Programs

[Aconite Vyper]

Hello!

I've recently become very interested in getting into ReMixing (due in no small part to the recent release of the "Voices of the Lifestream" album...thank you, btw, for such an inspiring project zircon [and crew of course!]) and have been looking around the forums in the hopes of finding possible avenues of attaining this goal.

Thus, I've come to one conclusion...I can't seem to find anything that does much more than simple MIDI creation without going out and buying something. (I'm currently playing around with Anvil Studio...which I apparently am quite terrible at using...but they say practice makes perfect...)

So, the actual question I'm trying to get to here is...

What do you folks (hopefully those of you who actually use them) think of the various different audio programs out there? (i.e. FruityLoops, Reason, Sibelius, Finale....etc.) What things do you like, and what do you dislike? Is there a particular reason, aside from price, that makes you want to use one program over another? And, possibly, what other kinds of hardware/software might I want/need to get in conjunction with said programs?

I'm looking at anything right now, so whatever you folks can tell me is a big help!

I'm also, of course, always open to looking at free alternatives I may have missed in my browsing...so don't hesitate to throw any suggestions my way.

My thanks in advance.

[Yoozer]

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11882

Same question, slightly different. Answer the questions in there (budget, etc.) and yes, it's often a matter of price and simply what you work best with/what you are used to.

Also: read this: http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=beginners . Alternatively, this: http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

The audio interface again depends on budget, can be anything as long as it plays nicely with your OS.

So, post an amount in numbers of hard cash you're willing to spend, and then we'll suggest stuff for ya

[Aconite Vyper]

Absolutely wonderful, thank you! This information is extremely helpful.

As for an amount I'm willing to spend...I'd say anywhere in the $500 or less range....though I could probably indulge up to about $600-$700 and not feel too bad

[Rozovian]

Two word of advice: Download demos.

[Zephyr]

We should just put up huge download demos signs all over the place. After downloading demos, watch some videos and learn how things work, then you can pick your favourite, I went with fruityloops, and I'm extremely happy with it, it comes with a load of stuff. I play piano so I also picked out an Axiom 61 midi controller keyboard and I love that too, really speeds up midi input. It totalled up to just under $600 Canadian which was about my budget range. Hope that helps a bit.

[Aconite Vyper]

Demos it is...

Thank you for the suggestion there. I'm a bit slow on the get-go, but we'll see how it works out.

I would still be happy to get any feed-back from you folks on why SPECIFICALLY you enjoy using which programs you use. I understand that, at this point, I may not fully comprehend the small details of each program, but as I wade through each piece of software, it would be nice to know what sorts of things I may be missing out on.

Anything you folks can give me will help paint a better picture so I can make a more informed decision.

So, maybe I can rephrase my question a bit...

What kinds of things do you folks like about your programs that make them unique? (i.e. What are the small little things that you find to be helpful that you havn't found in other programs?)

Oh, and btw...for all those of you who may wish to know my current specs...

Platform: PC

OS: Windows XP Home

HDD: 2x40GB RAID (80GB total)

Video: NVidia GeForce FX 5600 Ultra

Sound: SoundBlaster Live! WD

RAM: 1GB

Processor: 1.7GHz AMD Athlon

Thanks again, to all of you, for your help. It's greatly appreciated!

[Yoozer]

What kinds of things do you folks like about your programs that make them unique?

Alright, then.

I've used Cubase for a long time. I've started using it in 2000 - "Cubasis" without the VST, driving hardware synths. Later I upgraded to 5 VST but never used the VST options that much. Then, I decided to go legal (5 VST didn't see much use to be honest) and bought SX 1, later upgraded to SX 3.

What I liked about it was that in combination with the Midex interface, it handled my hardware synths pretty well. What I disliked was the company and the fact that you had to jump through 20 retarded flaming hoops just to get a softsynth on a track, and that there were artificial limitations in place for no good reason (limit to the number of effects, can't change effects order), as well as the downright (imho) abysmal handling of controllers and automation. Seriously, if you want to get anything in the way of sliders or rotary knobs to work, Cubase is too much work and they just don't get it.

Add to that that the interface didn't get any Vista compatibility for the 64-bit era, and I jumped ship.

Before I did, however, I checked out Ableton Live. I had worked with it earlier in version 3.0, but that one couldn't handle VST plugins; just audio. Makes a good tool for mash-ups and DJ mixes, though.

I got the demo version off the site and spent 3 hours hopping in my chair because hey, music was finally fun again, this stuff all worked much more intuitively, and I could do some wicked tricks. Also, automation worked rightaway; no bullshit like making extra tracks for it. Getting a VST added is a matter of drag & drop (and then setting the MIDI switch to IN). Getting hardware synths to work is easy too. Chaining effects in any desired order is awesome.

The downsides are that MIDI isn't as extensively covered as in Cubase, but software's taking over here.

[Moseph]

One of the reasons that I use Sonar as opposed to Cubase is that Sonar doesn't require a USB key and Cubase does. I hate those things.

[AMT]

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

Check out REAPER, it's got an unexpiring demo, and the full version is only $40 bucks. It's a great program, I use it and I've learned a ton so far.

[Fray]

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

Check out REAPER, it's got an unexpiring demo, and the full version is only $40 bucks. It's a great program, I use it and I've learned a ton so far.

Plus it's called "Cockos", which has got to be the most awesome name ever. Although I don't know that I'd buy a breakfast cereal by the same name...

I like Sonar because the workflow of it seems to fit me well (although I admit my experience with the full versions of other apps is limited; I just liked cakewalk express a lot more than cubasis when I tried them a few years ago). It's generally well-regarded for coming with very good mixing/mastering plugins, especially in the Producer versions.

[suzumebachi]

I primarily use FLStudio. But I've tried a few of the other programs, so I'll try and give you my thoughts.

FLStudio - I use FLStudio mainly because, well, it's what I'm used to. I first picked it up in 2002. Unlike most of the other major DAWs, however, FLStudio has actually made significant changes and improvements since that time. FLStudio has the best sequencer in existence, imo. And the automation clips are a godsend. Add to that VST host capabilities, basic recording, and the new effects mixer that can be rerouted in just about any manner, and you have a winner. It does have a few setbacks however. For one, the GUI lends itself to repetitiveness. But that can be easily overcome. Additionally, the most recent versions seem to have a problem when CPU overloads occur while you're recording from an ASIO input, causing the BPM to increase exponentially. But that's a bug and will probably be fixed-- and it won't affect you at all if you don't record live instruments or vocals. All my OC ReMixes except for Ultima Online 'Create/Deconstruct' were made with FL.

Reason - I also tried out Reason circa 2002. In fact my very first ReMix on OCR (the above mentioned UO mix) was made with Reason. Where FL lends itself to repetitiveness, Reason lends itself to using stock patches, samples, effects, and loops. It comes with a pretty large library of decent quality stock samples. Beyond that you're gonna be buying refills or using free soundfonts. Until you really know what the hell you're doing, people with experience will be able to tell you're using Reason at the drop of a hat. The 'wiring' interface for the reason modules is decent, but is really more of a gimmick than anything. Additionally, automation is a huge pain in the ass, and the piano roll sequencer leaves much to be desired. Also, where FL has improved greatly since 2002, Reason is still the same exact god damn program. They added what, one distortion module and a new synth? The real killer though, is the lack of VST support. A lot of people like to try to justify that by pointing out that you can ReWire Reason into Cubase or FLStudio or another DAW that can host VSTs. But why do that when you can just get another DAW that supports VST in the first place? Srsly.

Cubase - I use Cubase quite often for live music. It's what my band uses in our DIY recording studio. It's fantastic for recording, and the mixer interface is awesome for mastering. However, the sequencer is extremely difficult to get used to, and imo, the overall GUI (loading VST instruments here, routing midi data there, loading VST effect channels here, sending audio crap there, etc) is not very intuitive for sequencing at all. Plus since Yamaha took over, it seems like Cubase (and its sister Nuendo) is actually getting worse over time. And more expensive. For less features.

Sonar - Before I ever had FL or Reason, I had Cakewalk Pro Audio. I used it to sequence midis, and record my guitar way back in the day. And I hated it. Sonar is the evolution of Cakewalk Pro Audio. I still hate it. The interface is horrible. Maybe I'm biased because of all the horrible memories of trying to use Cakewalk Pro Audio. But I only recommend Sonar to sado-masochists. Otherwise unless you want to spend 6 months fucking around trying to figure out how to work it, I suggest you stay away.

I've also toyed with GarageBand, and Ableton Live, and a number of other lesser known programs, but I don't really know enough about them to start talking shit. Also, keep in mind this is just my opinion, and I'm just one angry stubborn fat man.

[analoq]

i use anything that's exclusive to the Mac so that people know i'm chic and affluent.

and Ableton Live, for no particular reason.

[Aconite Vyper]

Wow, look at all that info! *peers in amazement*

Thank you so much! You folks are great.

*messes around with the Reaper demo*

[Sir_NutS]

My recommendation is, don't listen to any recommendation. Each one will be sparkled with the subjetive opinion of the user, because making music is a matter of how comfortable you feel with the software you're using. So download all the demos and try them for some time, then make your own decision.

If you're still so stubborn as to listen to us, my choice of software is reason, because it simply more fun for me, and it's extremely flexible within it's own bounds (which are, their own machines, as it doesn't supports vsti's). For those who prefer VSTi support they can get anything such as fruity loops or cubase. I did use fruityloops for a few years since its meager start at version 2. It has improved a lot and a lot of artists use it with very good results.

But again, Its a matter of taste and what software you feel more comfortable with. You will be spending money with any you choose, be it on refills, soundfonts or vstis. TRY THEM OUT FIRST.