BeleagueredandBeset Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I'm hopefully going to be making some potentially submittable music soon. But... I lack the means to effectively create my own percussion tracks, so I was wondering: Is it considered appropriate to use those pre-made drum loops in GarageBand for ReMixes? If not, how might I go about making my own without buying an actual drum set or completely obliterating my funds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Yes, you can use premade loops in your remix. However... "Overusing common presets, relying heavily on prerecorded loops, or employing nothing but basic tones or "chiptunes" is discouraged." http://www.ocremix.org/info/Submission_Standards_and_Instructions In other words, don't use Garageband loops as the basis for your entire arrangement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmony Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Exactly. So while you can make an international #1 hit single that relies almost entirely on a Garageband drum loop, that garbage ain't gonna fly here at OCR. Jay-Z, Rhianna and The Dream get a NO (please resubmit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeleagueredandBeset Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Heheh. I must agree, Harmony. Thanks, guys. I'm mostly worried about it sounding cheap- percussion in general is my weak point- but I suppose with the right EQ applied, I can make it sound alright. But, how might I go about composing my own beats? Would having a MIDI keyboard be enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 You can program a beat in any software with a "piano roll" (editor of MIDI note data) and drum samples. You never NEED a keyboard to do anything in software, as you can simply use the mouse to create, delete, move, and resize notes. So typically you'll load up some kind of drumkit instrument and a few octaves of the (virtual) keyboard will be assigned to drumsounds. So C1 (two octave below middle C) may be a kick drum, D1 is a snare, F#1 is a closed hihat, etc. You can then create a sequence of notes to produce a beat. As for specifically what you need to do in Garageband, I couldn't tell you as I don't use it, but I know it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmony Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 You really don't need a keyboard, although that might make music creation faster. Assuming you're on a Mac, just get yourself a sequencer like Logic Express or Ableton, or even FL Studio if you want to go the Boot Camp route. With some practice and a few good tips you'll be making the hotness in no time. EDIT: Beat to the punch by Zircon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Before I started using Logic, I used GarageBand. I come from a tracker background, and prefer the oldschool method, that is, typing notes rather than clicking them into place. Still, I found the piano roll (the clicking notes into place) more creative than using the loops. The green loops are fully customizable, so you can move the individual drum notes around to remodel them to your liking. The blue ones are audio only, so while Apple Loops can be set to any speed and key, you can't change the individual notes. Which is a little annoying, as those sound way better than the customizable ones. I recommend playing around with it. Make a practice song with a simple bassline or something, then write your own drums, and vary those greatly. Couple of measures beatcomp, couple of measures something else. Experiment. I spent a year or so using GB, and ended up making some pretty cool stuff. While I can't say the GB drumkits are great, the right effect treatment can make them sound good. PM me for details, I'd be happy to give more in-depths advice on GarageBand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeleagueredandBeset Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Thanks a million for the help, guys. I had no idea I could mess with the piano roll thing in GarageBand. I don't think I'll be going the Bootcamp route; but I'll probably be back for more help whenever I manage to obtain Logic. By the way, if I were to buy a MIDI keyboard to plug into my Mac for use with GarageBand, what kind would you guys recommend? This is a potential Christmas present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 There are a lot of keyboards out there. I wrote a guide on this very topic, however; http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7918 If you want the abbreviated version, you want a "MIDI controller". You probably don't need any more than 2 or 3 octaves, which you can get at low cost from M-Audio or Edirol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 If the judges recognize that you're using a drumloop, it's an instant NO, unless the rest of the arrangement is just mind-blowingly awesome. All the more so if it's from a commonly used package like Garage Band -- if you look at the Judge's Decisions forum there are sometimes pages of NO's for every YES. These guys have heard a lot of crappy remixes made with presets from FL Studio and Garage Band This is basically the same thing Zircon said, but just reading the submission guidelines you might get the idea that the judges are more lenient about this kind of stuff than they actually are. I don't know if GB is capable of any kind of loop slicing, but that's one way you can really make a loop your own. You still get all the processing and presets (for the most part), but you have the ability to change the beats up. Some loops actually come with slices already set up on each hit. At that point it's not much different from just using an out of the box drum sample, and nearly everybody does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Bear in mind that getting yourself a "real" (as in expensive, complex) sequencer is a complete waste of money until you've mastered the basics. Would be interesting to have a GB contest on OCR, to see how good they can make it sound. When I got Logic, I was like a fish out of water. Didn't understand synthesis, got confused about the mixer, couldn't use Transform, was comletely lost when it came to Environment, could use two out of eight tools... And that's despite having worked with GB for over a year, tracker software before that. Learn GB, learn music. When you're able to produce something impressive with GB, get Logic, or some other more advanced software. When it comes to MIDI keyboards, I've been thinking of getting one too. Haven't needed one yet, tho. Just like zircon said, You never NEED a keyboard to do anything in software, as you can simply use the mouse to create, delete, move, and resize notes. If you play piano or keyboard, you'll probably find it useful. If you don't, you're not gonna miss not having it. You're not gonna learn it either, tho. My advice: Don't get too eager to buy (or beg for) a ton of stuff (advanced sequencer, MIDI keyboard, sample CDs) until you know where to fit it into your creative process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 If the judges recognize that you're using a drumloop, it's an instant NO, unless the rest of the arrangement is just mind-blowingly awesome. OK, that's not quite true... we've voted on numerous mixes using drumloops, even prominently, and passed them anyway (knowing full well they were just default FL, or Reason, or Garageband, or w/e.) It's by a case-by-case basis, but generally speaking, the loop just can't CARRY the mix. See what I'm saying? Like if it's a drum-centric style (eg. drum n' bass) and the primary drum pattern is a Reason default, yeah, that might not bode well, but if it's pop rock and you use one, well, that's not as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 But, how might I go about composing my own beats? iZotope iDrum is inexpensive and has surprisingly useful kits. as well as "part sequences" like common hat patterns to help you build your own drum parts. that's an option for you. Bear in mind that getting yourself a "real" (as in expensive, complex) sequencer is a complete waste of money until you've mastered the basics. indeed. GarageBand combined with a few 3rd party plugins is more than enough to make OCR quality music, especially if you have the new GB which has full automation among other features common in "real" sequencers. Would be interesting to have a GB contest on OCR, to see how good they can make it sound. hah, I'd hit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmony Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 If the judges recognize that you're using a drumloop, it's an instant NO, unless the rest of the arrangement is just mind-blowingly awesome.OK, that's not quite true... we've voted on numerous mixes using drumloops, even prominently, and passed them anyway (knowing full well they were just default FL, or Reason, or Garageband, or w/e.) It's by a case-by-case basis, but generally speaking, the loop just can't CARRY the mix. See what I'm saying? Like if it's a drum-centric style (eg. drum n' bass) and the primary drum pattern is a Reason default, yeah, that might not bode well, but if it's pop rock and you use one, well, that's not as bad. Exactly, as in this fine example and descision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 It's by a case-by-case basis, but generally speaking, the loop just can't CARRY the mix. See what I'm saying? Like if it's a drum-centric style (eg. drum n' bass) and the primary drum pattern is a Reason default, yeah, that might not bode well, but if it's pop rock and you use one, well, that's not as bad. Gotcha. I guess the decisions I was thinking of were more in the beat-based direction, so that makes sense. Also, it's been a couple years since I've really watched WIPs or paid attention to judge's decisions, so it may be an issue the current panel is a little more flexible on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipode Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Just since we're sort of on the topic, can anyone name some popular songs (as in mainstream, not OCR) that blatantly use loops or easily recognizable samples from FLStudio? I always like to suddenly discover or recognize something from the radio and say "HEY, I know that drum/that background/that whatever". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I hear absynth presets all the time http://kahvi.org/ biggest offender. though I love all the music off that netlabel anyway. I'd list some mainstream stuff but I'm so far out that I really couldn't tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 soc he said POPULAR songs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Actually recognized the overused phased hihat GB loop (which pixietricks made some use of in her Chrono Cross remix) in a news end jingle on TV. Dunno if that makes me feel like a pro or think whoever made it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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