Miroslav Philharmonik for cheap

[Nase]

http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=1790

I've decided to finally invest in some high quality samplers, with all those awesome group buys popping up. Price probably won't be that low for a long time.

They also throw in a lot of bonus sound packs and add even more content when the GB reaches high numbers.

If you join it and want to refer me, my name on esoundz is skoshu. we both get 5 $ that way.

[Sil]

Sorry to break it to you, but a repackaged library that's almost 10 years old is not really considered high quality anymore. Their demos are laughable by even ocremix's standards.

Remember, research is very important when investing in sample libraries.

[OverCoat]

I think the demos sound fine. Well, some of them sound really good, while others sound really fakey and bad.

weird!

[Smenelian]

Did you join the last one that I posted, Nasenmann?

Don't forget the one for Reason:

http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=1791

[Smenelian]

New update that might interest some people...

There is an option to ditch the Philharmonik player and get the Sampletank XL sound set for free if you join the group buy and email the website telling them that's what you want. If you have the Sampletank 2.5 player this is a great deal, assuming you are interested in Sampletank and Philharmonik.

A more detailed description by Squids is here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199912&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

[Nase]

Sorry to break it to you, but a repackaged library that's almost 10 years old is not really considered high quality anymore. Their demos are laughable by even ocremix's standards.

Remember, research is very important when investing in sample libraries.

Hmm. You probably are better than me at rating the quality of orchestral samples, but I don't buy into the 'laughable for OCR standards' bit (not that that'd matter much for my purposes anyway). Last time I checked, you could still get YESsed with Squidfont and a lot of skill.

Plus, these samples were an industry standard 10 years ago if I'm not mistaken. Went for 3000 - 4000 $ altogether. They've been remastered and new sounds were added.

I read up on some reviews and the general consensus was that the sounds have a very 'expressive' quality to them.

I also liked some of the demos. Judge for yourself, everyone:

http://www.philharmonik.com/Main.html?prod_MP

Sil, could you maybe point out what they're lacking specifically? Maybe that full EastWest cinematic sound? I haven't joined it yet due to lack of $, so your input is appreciated.

Smenelian: Yep, I did join the last one, but I found it on KVR. I'll refer you though if I buy this one

Man, the Sampletank library crossgrade option is awesome.

[Sil]

and a lot of skill.

Yes, skill plays a huge factor in working with samples and with enough of it you can make Miroslav or Squidfont sound good, but are you really willing to refine this skill for the next few years before you're able to produce that result?

The problem with the demos is that while their creators are obviously skilled, they were not playing to the library's strengths. Instead they had to showcase the numerous effects and playing styles they want it to be seen as being capable of. Maybe 5-10 years ago these demos were unrivaled, but not anymore.

Plus, these samples were an industry standard 10 years ago if I'm not mistaken. Went for 3000 - 4000 $ altogether. They've been remastered and new sounds were added.

The only reason it was worth so much was because no one knew better. If they were the industry standard, that's because before them there was no standard for the quality of an orchestral library, how it should be priced, and what kind of product would be surpassing it in the immediate future. They were merely fulfilling an untapped market for professional composers who needed to hear their work before it was orchestrated for live performance, so hey, why not jack up the price? Us poor "hobbyists" didn't come along until later.

Also, a drop in price is an indication of becoming outdated. Just look at graphics cards, or computers for that matter.

I read up on some reviews and the general consensus was that the sounds have a very 'expressive' quality to them.

Yes, the legato strings, oboe, and bassoon are nice if you're into writing slow pastoral music (like the opening of the White Pearl demo.) The tremolo, pizzicato, and staccato effects aren't bad either. But you will not be able to make convincing fast passages at all using the strings (look at how the New World demo doubles the arco violins with staccatos in order to get some kind of attack.) The brass and percussion are just terrible. So are the solo strings.

Sil, could you maybe point out what they're lacking specifically? Maybe that full EastWest cinematic sound?

If that "cinematic sound" is the ability to write action cues using quick strings with blaring brass and percussion, then yes, Miroslav lacks that. Before I condemned the library I probably should have asked exactly what you'd be using it for, and maybe what aspect of the demos you find appealing so I could address what is sounding right and what isn't. For one, the most major issue that jumps right out at me when I listen to the demos is in the balance and volume. Miroslav is an extremely quiet library, especially in the strings, and for an orchestra that is definitely NOT the balance you want.

If you have to spend so much time playing with things like balance and articulation, you're losing time composing. Miroslav has some good points, but it is in no way a high quality library by today's standards, nor is it anymore effortless than Squidfont. Unless you're buying it for some specific purpose I'm unaware of, it's just a bad investment.

[Nase]

Thanks. I probably won't do that many full fledged orchestral tracks, it's more about adding some flavors. The points you raised make me think though. I was hoping to get some high energy brass, for example. Also, the option to have instruments with aggressive attack is kind of important for the stuff I usually do.

I'll probably get it anyway because I can get the Sample Tank Library with it for cheap.

Sil, while we're at it, do you have an opinion on GPO?

[zircon]

We use Miroslav at the school labs here, converted to EXS-24. It's definitely dated, and while you can get some good sounds out of it, I would pick QLSO over it without even thinking. VSL is also superior. Miro's recording quality is not as good as modern libraries; the built in panning is not so good, the depth of articulations isn't there, round robins are nowhere to be found, no legato programming, no fancy DXF or nv/vib modwheel crossfades, fast attacks are generally not so fast, and the brass are definitely more suited for chamber music style compositions than anything else.

Not to say that you can't get a good sound out of it. One of my professors, a 2x Emmy-award winning composer who does regular work in film, TV, and advertising, still uses Miroslav every day and gets great results. But even he has said that he would like to upgrade sometime soon.

The issue is, I suppose, orchestral sounds for *Reason*... as QLSO/VSL aren't available for it. GPO is a pretty solid offering but definitely less featured overall than Miroslav. It's rather entry-level and I don't think it would help you go far beyond what Orkester already has. I haven't touched it in over a year.

[Smenelian]

I'm no expert on orchestral libraries, but I have to disagree with anyone who flat out calls this a bad investment. The sounds are not THAT bad. Yes, better libraries exist, but you will pay more for them too. This deal is for the budget minded people. Anyone who has epointz stacked up will get an even better deal than the rest of the people who sign up and the Sampletank library makes it that much sweeter. I'm mainly talking to Nasenmann here since I know he's got the ST player from the last group buy - if you want variety, jump on this deal. If you want a better orchestral library, East West has Gold + XP for $445 on their website. That's a hell of a deal too, but it depends on what you want.

I certainly won't turn down a referral offer. My esoundz name is Smenelian.

[Sil]

Sil, while we're at it, do you have an opinion on GPO?

It's not any better than Miroslav. While Miroslav fulfilled the need for a high priced library, GPO was made to fulfill a need for a low priced one. It just lacks overall musicality. I'm not sure if it's entirely chromatically sampled, but there's no excuse for libraries that are yet sound so fake.

I should make it clear that I'm not a believer in all-in-one libraries, especially ever since SAM came along.

I was hoping to get some high energy brass, for example.

Aren't we all?

the built in panning is not so good

The so-called naturally panned violins are the bane of my existence.

[zircon]

I'm no expert on orchestral libraries, but I have to disagree with anyone who flat out calls this a bad investment. The sounds are not THAT bad. Yes, better libraries exist, but you will pay more for them too.

$300 for this (at max discount) would get you QLSO Silver + QLSO Silver XP Pro.

[Sil]

I'm no expert on orchestral libraries, but I have to disagree with anyone who flat out calls this a bad investment.

It's a bad investment when you can't expect a greater return. I know because I've made several bad investments when it comes to orchestral sampling. Not just in money, but in time spent playing with it trying to get them to sound good. And the fact these all-in-one libraries of today force you to buy them as one expensive package instead of individual instruments doesn't make me feel any better.

Yes, better libraries exist, but you will pay more for them too.

You will pay more for a better computer too, that's no reason to buy an outdated one. I have free percussion and brass samples (except horns) that are way better than Miroslav's, so that's 25% ($150) of the library already made obsolete.

[zykO]

yes but if you want a quick fix all in one solution, miroslav or EWQL silver, gold, platinum, whatever you want... is a great option. the more you spend, the better samples.

truth is, though, and a lot of people forget this... it is what you do with the samples and not just the samples themselves. obviously some instruments are always goig to be trouble points (notorious brass sequencing) but for the most part, if you can make free hammersound soundfonts serviceable, you can do quite a lot with miroslav

i personally love mirolsav and get funky wit it allll the time... at least until i get my paws on EWQL, that is. far prefer it over GPO or edirol orchestra (which i was using for a short while and i vomitted all over myself as a result)

[Smenelian]

$300 for this (at max discount) would get you QLSO Silver + QLSO Silver XP Pro.

Nay. There are epointz to factor in as well. $40-60 off for people in the last group buy and anyone else who has some saved up.

It's a bad investment when you can't expect a greater return. I know because I've made several bad investments when it comes to orchestral sampling. Not just in money, but in time spent playing with it trying to get them to sound good. And the fact these all-in-one libraries of today force you to buy them as one expensive package instead of individual instruments doesn't make me feel any better.

As I said, this deal is for the budget minded. If a person has the money, by all means go out and get something better. A hobbyist musician who is not totally bent on uber quality will be able to enjoy this material. Greater return? I guarantee anyone using squidfont will be much happier with this. I mean, you may as well take audio production classes and set up a studio in your house while you're out buying meticulously sampled individual instruments. All I'm saying is that there are people who can benefit from something like this and there are people who will want something more.

You will pay more for a better computer too, that's no reason to buy an outdated one. I have free percussion and brass samples (except horns) that are way better than Miroslav's, so that's 25% ($150) of the library already made obsolete.

Oh please, computers are practically outdated after you get the package home. Most people I know have computers comparable to Miroslav's quality in the sampling world and they get along fine.

[Sil]

A hobbyist musician who is not totally bent on uber quality will be able to enjoy this material.

That's the tradeoff. If you're satisfied with the quality, who am I to say anything? What I'm against is the presupposition made in the first post that Miroslav is a comparatively high quality library and that you're not going to suffer the same trials disappointments I already struggled with 5 years ago. But again, if you're fine with that, then there's no problem. It will be a learning experience if anything.

However, it is important to remember that with every new release (or rerelease with a lower price), hobbyists will be swayed into thinking all their problems will be solved by a "higher quality" library. It's not a huge stretch to see the parallels between this and graphics in games. We've come so far in sampling only to learn that realism is a matter of compromise, and that's all Miroslav really is: a compromise. It's a problem I've had with sample libraries for a long time, and I'll probably be saying the same thing when VSL has come down to the hobbyist level.

[Smenelian]

That's the tradeoff. If you're satisfied with the quality, who am I to say anything? What I'm against is the presupposition made in the first post that Miroslav is a comparatively high quality library and that you're not going to suffer the same trials disappointments I already struggled with 5 years ago. But again, if you're fine with that, then there's no problem. It will be a learning experience if anything.

However, it is important to remember that with every new release (or rerelease with a lower price), hobbyists will be swayed into thinking all their problems will be solved by a "higher quality" library. It's not a huge stretch to see the parallels between this and graphics in games. We've come so far in sampling only to learn that realism is a matter of compromise, and that's all Miroslav really is: a compromise. It's a problem I've had with sample libraries for a long time, and I'll probably be saying the same thing when VSL has come down to the hobbyist level.

It is true that Miroslav is not one of the top dogs and anyone who thinks it is should definitely be warned, but Miroslav is not without merit (IMO) and I wanted to point that out as well. There will be issues no matter what library you use. They can be minimized by getting a better set of sounds but with current technology there is always something that won't sound like the real deal.

I'm also pushing this because of how inexpensive this group buy is and how much stuff you can get in addition to Miroslav. If the library was $500 on its own as it usually is, I wouldn't be so quick to recommend it.

[Malcos]

I was thinking of getting the Miroslav for Reason, but after this thread I'm thinking twice about it!

[SnappleMan]

Sorry to break it to you, but a repackaged library that's almost 10 years old is not really considered high quality anymore. Their demos are laughable by even ocremix's standards.

Remember, research is very important when investing in sample libraries.

Also remember, it's more about the skill of the user than the quality of the samples. Just because you can't get a good result out of them does not mean someone capable can't either.