The Derrit

and on top of this a 15 year old final fantasy game is not my idea of a high profile title.

on the other hand, a ps3 will guaranteed have big games coming out on it. if you loved god of war in the previous generation, you know it's coming. if you love final fantasy, you know it's coming. if you love any ps exclusive that didn't bomb, it's probably coming. there's no guarantee that anything is coming on ouya, or that a stream of releases will even 'eventually happen' like it did for ps3, or 3ds, or (most likely) wii u. it'll probably even happen for the vita. but nobody really has ouya's back. it doesn't have any guaranteed games in its back pocket further down the line, like a halo that will make people want it, or a smash brothers, or anything at all. if it doesn't sell no one's gonna bother making or porting games for it, even indies. i can't think of why they would. on a different note sending them out this early was a big mistake. because anyone who's casually initiated is going to see it, say 'well that wasn't as good as i had hoped' and isn't going to recommend it to friends. and considering really all they've got is word of mouth (unless they have a huge hidden marketing budget somewhere) it's not going to travel very far i wouldn't imagine. it's also fairly telling when the company itself puts out a post saying 'no you guys just don't get it!' to respond to a bad review. so yeah.

are you so stupid as to not read how it's a problem not only because the quality was poor but because the quality was poor AND not in a timely manner? criticizing her inability to do things on time is ABSOLUTELY relevant, ESPECIALLY if it's of similar or poorer quality than her previous videos. which it is. at least you tried. lurk more.

She already did. That's why people are complaining. The issue is it took her this long to do 1/12th of it.

oh i don't know, all of it? the first line is "Have you ever noticed that, with a few notable exceptions, basically all female characters in video games fall into a small handful of clichés and stereotypes?" as if it's indisputably true, or even close to it. It's not something you can prove as accurate, it's pretty obviously not accurate if you play games in the modern era. That just starts me off wanting to disagree with her. And it only gets worse. You think someone with a more level head than me wouldn't comment on her video like 'you're full of shit go back to making videos about bayonetta when you've never played the game, make false statements about it and then delete it when everyone calls your bullshit and never own up to the fact that you straight-out lied because feminism?" that actually happened by the way. certainly a nice anecdote on her moral fiber. and no she's not terrible for all of that, she's terrible for PLANNING FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. those are all unfortunate things and it's a shame they happened, and shouldn't have, and the onus is clearly on those people. but there's no way around the fact that she knew it was coming, and still literally owns up to leaving up her comments section to 'prove there was a problem.' if she approached this the way djp has illustrated throughout the thread there would still be people harassing her i'm sure, and it would be just as unfortunate and wrong. but she's pointing her needlessly barbed and pointy finger at people she knows will take offense, giving them a platform she gives literally no one else in any other instance in which she releases media, and then taking it to the press like no one's business. being a jackass and then running to the media saying 'these people are being mean to me' isn't pitiable. now clearly the harassment is bad regardless of the circumstance. but she engineered a circumstance in which the harassment was going to be the worst it could possibly be. and frankly she doesn't get my sympathy for that.

look nobody disagrees that her harassment was terrible. the reason it's terrible what SHE did is because she gets that harassment ALL THE TIME. she specifically blocks all comments etc. BECAUSE OF IT. if you go to that kickstarter promo video she says IN THE STATUS that she intentionally left the comments up to 'prove a point' about how necessary her work is. " I left the comments open on this video (until 24 hours after the kickstarter was finished) as a way of showing why this topic is so important. I apologize for all the hate speech, misogyny, racism, threats and ignorance that were left below over this 2 week period. The trolls only managed to prove to everyone that sexism in gaming is indeed a huge problem." if she hadn't left comments up, and nobody had harassed her, and she didn't make a big public 'oh help me people are being mean to me' stunt, she would have never gotten a sliver of the publicity she did for this. and she knows it. so no, it's not about the harassment she got (which is indeed terrible), but the fact that she planned for it to happen, invited it with an overly confrontational video, manipulated it to her advantage AS A WOMAN MIND YOU, and made lots of money from it. frankly anytime a public figure says 'the trolls are trying to tear down my work' it should put up a red flag. it's unprofessional and alludes to a whole lot of things that maybe you should look inwards at, instead of projecting onto the public. also, to zircon: the fact that people taking too long on kickstarter projects happens all the time doesn't make it okay. isn't this exactly what we're talking about? that sexism in games happens all the time but isn't okay? but on TOP of that she hasn't even taken the 5 seconds out of her day to inform ANYone on the schedule of this project. at best that's negligent. at worst that's deliberately not informing the people who are paying you on what you're doing. there is no other situation in the WORLD where a person getting paid by their superiors can just walk off and say 'well i'll call sometime.' a company CEO can't just do whatever he wants with shareholder money and expect he doesn't have to explain himself. a scientist can't just get a major grant and then not contact the granter to give them updates on the work they were paid to do. so why does this woman get to take everyone's money, go way over schedule, and just be silent and inform nobody? there's a reason people that are backing her are complaining on this. because she's intentionally not telling people. and that's not okay. is it because feminism again? because that really seems to be where this conversation keeps going. double edit: i actually agree with bleck's post in it's entirety. but before someone's like 'shut up hypocrite' i have not taken a 'free pass' to insult this woman and take baseless pot shots. given what she has done previously in her videos, her manipulative self promotion, and her frankly poor work on this video in particular, i think i have plenty of reasons to discredit what she's done. because it doesn't deserve a lot of credit. i like arek think the conversation of sexism in games is important as i have said tons of times. but this woman sucks at it, and did a shitty job.

did you read my last long post? EVERYthing she has done merits this type of accusation. Part 1: Puts out a needlessly inflammatory 'intro' video for her kickstarter and instead of routinely blocking comments as she normally does, leaves it open so people will be like 'why are you being such a bitch, you can just talk normally instead of being an asshole.' Part 2: Uses those comments to do a TED talk on Internet harassment. Uses the free publicity and uninformed people who hear about her 'plight' to get money for her kickstarter. (note that in doing this she literally uses the trope she finds so disturbing, 'damsel in distress,' to her advantage.) Reading her public 'updates' on this, including this incredibly offensive and sexist picture that paints anyone who disagrees with her as a 'troll' makes me sick. This part in particular I'm upset about. Is it okay to be manipulative and use shady and underhanded tactics if it's in the grand name of feminism? Shouldn't feminism be about why women should be treated equal, not using vices that no man could get away with to make her money? No man could take the same course of action on any inflammatory topic, and make money off of harassment. Nor would anyone jump to his defense. But if it's in the name of feminism, it's okay? I don't buy that. Part 3: Uses stretch goals such as 'up the production quality,' despite there being no discernible difference between the production quality in this video compared to her priors. Part 4: Uses a pledge $500 prize as A "DVD set of the entire Feminist Frequency video collection. PLUS all of the above!" with an estimated delivery date of December 2012. While not definitive, and clearly there is no reference to it now on the kickstarter site anymore (though i'm fairly certain there originally was,) that was the date the ENTIRE PROJECT was supposed to be finished. Part 5: It's been 10 months since the kickstarter ended. A single video has been made. To take from the comments section of her kickstarter, "Please respond to my message regarding my refund request. This project is nearly half a year past its originally estimated due date. And no, "improved production quality" is not a valid reason to justify this project's tardiness. Thank you." and there are TONS of comments like this. On her Kickstarter page! I just looked! You can't just say 'nobody complained' when a large portion of the from-backer comments are complaints. Part 6: She's given no one, not even her backers, a timeline for when these videos, or even just the NEXT video, will be finished. What about any of this is defensible? No, because you would be reasonable and respectful towards your audience by, you know, informing them? Instead of saying 'well, guess I'll just say nothing while my self imposed deadline passes me by. They'll understand.' Seriously, if you were in her shoes, would you really give no public word to anyone regarding your project's tardiness and just expect it to be okay? Would you personally be okay with that? Of course not. Also, other video creators get negative criticism ALL THE TIME. On par with this! If anything I would say the criticism towards her has been some of the more solid criticism leveled against an inflammatory creator in a good while once you get past the actual flamers. Anyone who's just like 'down with women' has been driven away by feminazis. The only people who have stuck around are people who are willing to put in the time to prove a point. And there are tons of them. For good reason. Because creating something of such poor quality and expecting it to stand up in the court of public criticism is frankly insulting, and I don't want people I know to see this and be influenced by it because a woman used big words to call things sexist. She deserves the criticism she's getting. She used images and examples directly off of *cough* WIKIPEDIA AND TVTROPES.ORG??? Really? I guess all that money and time put into 'research' must have been really hard. That's not plagiarism or anything either.

Once it stops generating youtube income she'll make another one.

i haven't watched that Jim video yet but when I get home I look forward to seeing it. Unrelated note I'm back in the states! Bagels and cream cheese....

we're very proud of you for being too cool for school if i may hearken to an old throwback... lurk more. if everyone liking a game is your signal to say 'this game is shit' despite not having played it like you have now done TWICE in the past month then maybe you should control that verbal diarrhea a little bit better

i reversed your quote because it was stupid and i was mocking you. neither are logical arguments, you can criticize whatever you want, games and this video are both public domain. i'm pointing out that if my line of criticism isn't logical (as you're saying it's not) then hers is no better. because it's doing the exact same thing. also, if you 'don't think so,' then we're done here. if you don't think her saying games use male power fantasies as a tool to sell more games isn't intent then you're just simply not paying attention, or hearing what you want to hear.

i do have to wonder where exactly they'd go with that

i'm bringing it up because it's PART OF THE CONVERSATION. NOTABLY THE PART YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

then what exactly is taking away the power of all these female characters? games don't just pop into existence. it doesn't much more than putting two and two together to figure this one out. also, if i can't critque her for her implications and editorial intent because she hasn't clearly stated *exactly what it means*, then she can do the exact same thing to games... why? seriously. saying she is immune to the same criticism she is doling out even when she is working in the same realm, media for consumption by the general public, does not make sense. from the beginning of this thread what i have been criticizing is that her intentions were poor, as was her execution. talking past that doesn't change what i'm saying. also read my post again it got a lot bigger. i'd like to hear your thoughts on her methods.

We can *theorize* about game maker's agendas, but I think that's sort of pointless until they explicitly state their purposes (if they ever will). honestly if she's not pointing this directly at game developers, and this is just a 'general awareness' series, then it's as big a publicity stunt as a politician trying to ban violent video games. it's using the 'games are bad' demon as a way to get people listening. honestly, most anyone on this site could have probably told you all of the examples she talked about except for the castle quest one. and anyone who's been a consistent gamer could do the same. she's added nothing to the conversation other than 'and it's sexist.' and it IS. i get that it is. there's a constructive conversation to be had. but the issue at hand is not even close to the degree she's attempting to make it out to be. telling me a game from the 80's like castle quest is sexist, is that really supposed to surprise me? or be relevant to what's happening today? guess what else was sexist. THE 80'S. also, there is nothing in her work that is as fair, balanced or objective as any documentary. that's about as congruent as saying that she talks, just like people in documentaries do. quite frankly if your best defense is 'well nobody knows for sure what she thinks (despite overwhelmingly strong statements and implications directly at a certain point, often to the point of clear bias) so that's an unfair criticism' then there's not much left to defend. i like that this video exists, and i don't think Anita Sarkeesian needs to 'shut up and hide in a corner because nobody cares,' but she didn't do a good job, and if you're going to make these at all, much less with people's donated money, she needs to step it up, both in professionalism and in content. this man gets it. post more often please i also happened to come across this in a comment of an article related to this, and i think it's an interesting note, if not completely relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September edit: i also saw this in the comments and this much i was *not* aware of. and if it's true makes her kind of a terrible person by using the exact thing she's speaking out against for publicity. fucking bullshit. AND NOW I'M WATCHING THAT PITCH VIDEO AND THE FIRST THING SHE SAYS IS NOT ONLY INACCURATE BUT CLEARLY FLAMEWORTHY, WHICH SHE SHOULD KNOW SEEING AS SHE'S BEEN ON THE INTERNET FOR OVER 3 YEARS never mind i take back what i said she should go sit in a corner somewhere. nobody needs to hear what this woman has to say. this entire thing is sleaze and manipulation to the nth degree.

if it's not true then why would you make the video in the first place? 'i'm just going to point all this stuff out and leave it here. but if you disagree, it's not like i *explicitly said* it was bad. just that it exists.' my wording is strong, but she's made this video to prove a point, and her point is that sexism in videogames is pervasive (mostly true) and BAD (not untrue) and the major issues that i have with this video is that she points out how developers had 'all these chances' to put strong feminine qualities on characters and didn't because SEXISM, or that a character *should have* been a woman but wasn't because SEXISM, as if these were all incorrect choices that should have been correctly made by using her recommended options. there's nothing in her descriptions that doesn't put the blame on someone's shoulders, even if that 'someone' is a vague 'the developers.' how that's not saying 'this is bad and should be changed' i'm not seeing. i've already said it like 4 times but just because she didn't say it explicitly it doesn't mean it's not what she's saying.

yeah she's not. she's just saying 'if you do you're bad and you should feel bad.' saying you think something is bad is clearly implying you think it shouldn't be done.

that's the most nonconstructive thing i have heard in a very long time. what you're essentially saying is 'let's not define it, so when i think it's sexism it is, and there's no definition telling me i'm wrong.' Burgundy Color coordinates Hex triplet #800020 sRGBB (r, g, (128, 0, 32) HSV (h, s, v) (345°, 100%, 50%) there's the definition of burgundy by the way. i don't mean to say sexism doesn't exist, it does. but saying 'it's undefinable and intangible. but it's definitely there when i say it is!' is a line used by people who believe in love in first sight, ghosts, and supernatural powers. by not basing your discourse on anything other than circumstantial evidence, you have made no progress. all the circumstantial evidence in the world can make it *very likely* that something is true, nearly indisputably so, but there is no progress made on why, how, or possible solutions. you are in the realm of social science. you can't just not define sexism. also i find it incredibly ironic and problematic that you say we should listen to women like Anita because they're women so they know better, and then subsequently negatively refer to the male equivalent of an Anita Sarkeesian as 'dudebros' that aren't worthy of anyone's time, because you know, they're guys. at least try to act like you're not being prejudiced.

this thread is not complete. there is no globaltrance post. also this is awesome i cannot wait

http://www.gamespot.com/bioshock-infinite/videos/the-break-room-interviews-ken-levine-6405619/?tag=Topslot;TheBreakRoomInterviewsKenLevine;QuotweCanKillTheInd i think around 25:00 this is relevant to this conversation and also a wider scope of not just women but minorities, sexuality religion etc.

i didn't get very far through it before the ps2 i was using disappeared to my brother's college, but i do remember being very impressed by the dialogue.

how about don't minimod sorry he's much better at debating this with you than we are. we agree with him. that's part of the conversation.

what are you playing XII on? because if there's anywhere other than ps2 that i can play it i am IN.

that's why he's the boss 'round here

if ign is getting flak from you people for advertising to males, should cosmpolitan get flak for advertising to females? because i think that's sexist.