relyanCe

I'm excited to see some changeups!

as long as teemo is banned

as much as i want to say i won't buy it, i probably will, so i'll probably be down for rolling up a new character

I don't see his midlane being very terrifying, since the big picks in mid are usually high mobility champs that can basically avoid all his shit. I'd love to take shyvana mid against that octopus bitch and laugh my way to the bank against slow champs or other mages like him, I can see him dominating with straight up base true damage

I mess with vlad every week he is free, and I've noticed that right now he is seriously in need of updates. His cast animations on transfusion and tides of blood are ploddingly slow, enough to make him a complete gimp in pitched fights. Nidalee can throw her spear and connect with you at your max q range before your q animation finishes and your spell actually casts, and that's just kind of sad, especially given how slow Nid Q's projectile speed is. anyone else notice vlad's clunkyness? is that why we never see him played anymore? His passive seems very weak now as well, since his best items aren't high in ap values

It really makes me happy that the Ragnarok thread was basically nothing but VP jokes like REALLY happy

skype/steam id so i can ping you plx

do you wanna just forget... forget... it... all...

yeah them low elo plowthroughs are always both fun and irritating at the same time

just pm me

I'm personally down with just continuing to play as OCR Heroes. I think we have a great team going right now. We could probably do pretty well this season. if another tourney comes up, I'd be down to play it. EDIT: I can work on a logo for us. If anyone has some ideas as to what they'd like to see in our logo, shoot me a pm

that is what SoloQ does. It uses a team game to measure individual skill and enforces the reward system of a team's performance upon an individual player, which a source of major frustration among the community of ranked solo players. Do you see the dissonance now? This is what the current SoloQ system rewards. Why are we in disagreement?Do you seriously not see the dissonance? You saying it is impossible doesn't make it so, unless of course you have 15-20 years of programming and statistics experience to back it up. Otherwise, if you're going to constantly repeat "It would be hard so we shouldn't do it", then you really have nothing more to add to the discussion except variations of that theme. If you'd care to explain in an at least semi-rigorous way why such would be impossible, then please, do. No, because the MMR system (rightly) enforces a 50/50 win loss ratio. Further, this "game flow" you speak of is not necessary for a system to take into account to accurately measure the basic actions necessary to take in order positively affect "game flow", and your assertions that "game flow" is impossible to measure is because you are purposely thinking too big. Please list some of these downsides and contradictions, compare them to the downsides and contradictions that have been proposed against win/loss, then argue your point. Otherwise, you're just stomping your foot. W/L is easy to measure and aggregate client-side, and is for the most part accurate. Nobody is arguing this. What is being argued is that the system in place is hugely responsible for how plain unfun and toxic soloQ is. People are penalized for good play and rewarded for bad play at least 50% of the time, and this is extremely dissonant with trying to measure and reward individual play (this is what SoloQ is).Seven, the conversation moved a bit since I last checked, so I'll reply to you in pms later.

What if I told you that the fact that achieving victory is literally the only decider of your ranked advancement in soloQ is part and parcel the source of all of soloQ's problems? Why is the team's victory the only way in which we measure the ability of an individual in the game of League of Legends? This doesn't occur in any other team sport or team eSport. We wouldn't say that Faker or Piglet is a weak LoL player if SKT1 didn't win Worlds, would we? Why use that mentality in soloQ? If soloQ is designed to reflect individual ability at LoL, why is advancement 100% contingent on the actions of a team? You do realize this concept is gamed mercilessly in soloQ, and soloQ games that are won by team tactics are an extreme rarity, right? Would you agree that there exists a set of things that a LoL player should do as opposed to other things to play the game better and advance in skill as a player? If you would agree, then you've admitted that 'the best' is definable and measurable. I would say there exists such a set of skills. Would you agree that the concept of strategy in LoL is reducible to actions taken within the game world? If so, would you agree that all actions taken within the game world are measurable and recordable (and in fact are)? If so, why would you think that measurable actions taken within the game world (which the concept of strategy supervenes upon) rigidly oppose the concept of strategy?

actually, trying and experimentation does solve problems. see: all of science explain why the goal is impossible without saying "It would be hard so we shouldn't try" MMR isn't bunk. No one to my knowledge is saying it is. MMR works just fine for calculating players of similar skill as far as I've experienced. I'm saying the way in which MMR is calculated and by extention the way LP is awarded in soloq is fundamentally misaimed and causes a great deal more frustration (which leads to greater player toxicity) than enjoyment (which would lead to less player toxicity). It isn't fun at all to play ranked soloQ, and how that has been allowed to basically remain unchanged is mindboggling. EDIT: Reread your post and I think I got what you mean now. Thing is, people would be way less toxic about this kind of thing if your advancement as a player wasn't measured solely by winning. If it's okay that you are paired with someone less experienced or generally sucky, as long as you continue to play the game well on your own behalf and be rewarded for playing the game well, you'll probably be less likely to rage about how that person is ruining your ability to advance, since it's not all about winning. I don't really think this gets at anything. Just because LoL players may define skill differently doesn't negate the fact that there are core skills (champion mechanics, CS, awareness, objectives, KDA) that rigidly define whether or not you are going to do well in the game of League of Legends This is not the case. Well, no, it's part of the case, but not most of it. You move up the ranked soloq ladder in one of basically three ways: 1. You are immensely better than your placed tier, and will stop everyone until you get where you belong. 2. You get uncharacteristically lucky and win a large amount more often than you lose until you are placed somewhere where you realize you're still shit at the game but everyone else in the tier is less shit than you. 3. You game the current meta, take the champs that best capitalize statistically on the items/masteries/etc said meta, get good enough at those champs to regularly win lane, and carry games until you get into a tier where that won't work anymore, at which point you realize you're still shit at the game. slowly working up your knowledge of the game in each aspect that is necessary for playing the game well will not reward you with steady upward movement in ranked. You will wallow, going up and down until you fall into one of the above three categories, because the game is designed to enforce a 50/50 winloss, WHICH IS NOT BAD. WHAT IS BAD IS THAT THE REWARD SYSTEM DOES NOT ENFORCE PROGRESSING IN SKILLS THAT BENEFIT BETTER LEAGUE PLAY. Instead, it prioritizes "winning" over every other aspect of League. So PEOPLE GO INTO RANKED TRYING TO WIN INSTEAD OF TRYING TO GET BETTER AT THE GAME. This makes sense for a 5-man team that functions as a unit and practices together, but makes NO SENSE in solo play. League's reward system needs changing to make the player base enjoy the game more and genuinely feel like they're making process, which would work toward mitigating the immense toxicity of the community. Which is what I care about, NOT my ranking. As an aside, it's been a great discussion so far. Thanks to everyone who's contributed.

also noting the faults of a system OBVIOUSLY means you have an entitlement complex OF COURSE Dunno if it is or isn't or if it will or won't, but the team is willing to experiment with a new system that ostensibly will at least TRY to measure individual skill in a solo game setup and honestly anything sounds better than LoL soloq at this point

"it would be difficult so that means we shouldn't do it" stop using this as a way to defend a shitty system from undergoing beneficial change it's not on the community to figure out every nuance of how a thing could be made better, only that the community raises its voice and demands a reasonable, better way of handling what is currently a disgustingly toxic, negative-sum system EDIT: I don't want to spend another season picking champions that win to get my MMR up. It's dishonest and plain doesn't reflect on my progress as a player. It simply means I've broken down and integrated into whatever meta is enforced by which champion wins the most. It's silly to think that I've become a better player because I main the S4 equivalent to S3 Ahri/LeBlanc, and if the game COULD measure the factors that actually go in to being a better player of the game League of Legends on an individual level for SoloQ (which it already does), instead of the enforced roullette of Win/Loss ratios, it SHOULD. Aside, it's not that I don't think the current system doesn't work. It's just nowhere near as fun, rewarding, or honest to the game philosophy of LoL than it could be, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge departure of ranked LoL players to DotA 2 if it becomes clear they have a vastly superior ranking system. EDIT EDIT: Still no return email for the tourney on Saturday as well

it would be difficult to figure out and might be initially problematic so we shouldn't do it yeah fuck inovation

You aggregate. I'm sure there are PLENTY of statisticians out there who would scoff at our perception of the project's difficulty. Try to get out of the win/loss norm to think about this. Winning and losing should factor into how you gain and lose LP, but it should not be the ONLY factor. Losing should not result in a straightup LP loss that is mitigated by other factors, nor should winning be an LP gain that is reduced by other factors. They should be EQUATED to other factors. If you are split pushing constantly, your cs should be huge, and that should factor into how the game determines your skill. It is dishonest to slap you in the face with LP loss if your team cannot properly capitalize on a useful strategy and win. That being said, just because people think you are carrying by split pushing does not mean that it is true. A split push can win OR lose a game, but it can also just as easily be a non-issue in the game's outcome. If you don't have the huge cs, assists, low deaths, etc., necessary for being a good split pusher that HELPS a team win, then it's quite likely you aren't as big a factor as it would seem to other players. On the same token, some with huge KDA isn't necessarily a help to his team. If he or she is prioritizing that alone, their cs/presence/objectives might not be there, and if a player otherwise skilled enough to score kills isn't working towards other factors that determine a win, how good at League is this player actually? Even if he wins in low elo, are mechanics alone the skills you need to win in high elo? Nope. People who are practicing to increase their ability at the GAME of League of Legends should not be punished in soloq because the system is deliberately set up to (fairly, granted) give each player a roughly 50/50 winloss. Rising in elo right now is basically gaming the system by prioritizing the best way to carry and hoping their team isn't too heavy, and that's a shitty way to rise through the ranks. That's how I (half-bakedly, of course) think the LP system could change for the better. It would enforce good play in every individual summoner, as it's no longer JUST about getting more wins and losses, but being good at the GAME itself, which right now ISN'T necessary to rise through the ranks.

It is weird how Riot is ostensibly able to track and record EVERY important statistic for soloq players (cs, kda, objectives, hell, i bet they could record skillshots landed), and yet the only thing they use to aggregate LP awards are wins and losses. for ranked 5, I can understand win/loss, since you're a team, and that's how teams are measured. but seriously let's face soloq is about who is the better carry on a team of dopes

Also the chances of us seeing another good bioshock game is now effectively zero

The thing that I think separates Kass from Jax/Riven is the absolutely GODMODE jungle mobility and midgame camp clear. He annihilates even buff camps in 4 seconds flat (before even his w goes on cd) and that would simply invalidate the enemy jungler (granted he can get to six safely), which would completely negate the need to duel down an enemy jungler for camps in the first place; he'd just flash over walls constantly. Combine that with his already stupid-tier lane mobility aaaaaaand I just can't wait to actually try it also not sure if spectral wraith for spellvamp or ancient golem for tenacity since he needs both but can't compromise with merc treads because mobi boots are so stupid good

soloq blues feel it in your soul

I know talking about Kassadin is generally a waste of time considering his ~99% ban rate, BUT Kassadin Jungle - Could it work with the new Jungle items? I've only tried it in custom games, but maxing W with AS marks and AP Quints/Glyphs makes for a seriously potent post-6 clear. With blue he literally NEVER runs out of mana, even with 3-4 stacks on his R. Popping out of the jungle with a stacked R into a silence/slow combo with redbuff Autos at high ranks of W into botlane... free doubles for days. Gonna try it in a few bot games today, maybe some blink picks too. I think it could be an interesting blindside pick for OCR Heroes if he isn't banned, since you could counter mid's attempt to instantly counter kass. And if the enemy teams rolls with a magic damage jungler like amumu... talk about a free jungle. Then again, pre-6 a lee sin or udyr could crush his slowstart before it even begins. Thoughts from you guys?

i'll be there

i take kat support whole team flames in queu i annihilate bot wtf is ranked I could never get away with that in normals