djpretzel
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Probably too simplistic; does get better w/ introduction of chiptune elements, could use the feedback either way, promising.
- djp
Remixer Name; Eat Brain Stems
Website: soundcloud.com/eatbrainstems
userid: 54588
Name of game: Pilotwings 64
Name of arrangement: Glidin' High
Name of individual song arranged: Hangliding (Hang Gliding?)
Source of individual song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Pga-y7F8k
Comments; It's probably boring. I do a lot of high-energy-big-noise-mixes and was gonna do something similar to this mix. The project was coming along nicely, but I wasn't really feeling it. So I instead went with something a little more fitting to the original.
Hope it's alright.
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TRAP... kinda cool, but I just don't have a great framework for evaluation, relative to the source.
We'd need a new title if it gets approved.
- djp
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remixer name: GARLAND
real name: Spike Arreagauser ID: 54586Submission Information:Game title: Pokemon Red/Bluetrack title: Lavender Town Remixsong remixed: "Theme of Lavender Town"------ -
Pretty strong debut, production-wise... need some extra ears on the arrangement.
-djp
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- Dj Exias
- Shawn Badolian
- https://exias.bandcamp.com/
- 25296
Game: Final Fantasy VIIIRemix Name: Shattered Hopes Across TimeOriginal Songs: Compression of TimeComposer: Nobuo UematsuPlatform: PlaystationCompression of Time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l75zjpDpAWsOut of all of Nobuo's songs, Compression of Time has always held a place in my heart as I could relate my life to the melody. I really wanted to do the song justice, and amplify the spectrum of emotions the original piece projects. -
I think it has less to do with the action of portraying women in games in and of itself (i.e. the inclusion of the female sex/female gender/whatever have you in video games and related media) and more to do with the implementation of portraying women in games.
If Female-Character X is portrayed as some fuck toy and little more than that in Game X, then it can potentially perpetuate sexist culture, although the effect would be more profound if almost all the female characters in Game X were portrayed similarly. If it's just one character that is objectified in-game out of myriad characters (the rest of which are not objectified), then the problem potentially still exists, but to a much lesser degree? Sorry, I'm just adding in a quick thought; I'll need to sit down and do a little info digging later.
Since NativeJovian said that the above was "pretty much exactly it," I just have to say.... what? Sexual objectification is sexual objectification... it's not rocket science, I *am* familiar with the concept, and the above does nothing to expound on the concept or explain why "depicting people in works of art" would be incompatible with the concept, or "laughably off-base"...
I give up; no offense, but it's not worth my time... talk in circles all you want.
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In any case, defining objectification as depicting people in works of art is pretty laughably off base.
Then what the hell are you even talking about, or is Anita even talking about? How is she NOT talking about depicting people (females) in works of art (video games)?? Are you laughing at her as well, and at yourself, or did I miss something?
Plenty of problems with almost everything else you wrote, but tell me how that definition is "laughably off-base" when it's EXACTLY how we got here in the first place... let's just stick to this one, single, laughable point and see if you can explain yourself.
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I wasn't giving objectification an out as not inherently sexist -- it is, the word "objectification" literally means that you're reducing somebody to an object instead of a person, which is inherently bigoted.
Wait... what? What the what? WHAT?
Why is objectification inherently bigoted? Classical art and sculpture, which during certain eras was much more egalitarian in its focus on both female & male forms, was inherently bigoted? Painting the human form is inherently bigoted? Pornography is inherently bigoted? Uhhhh.... why? Because you said so?
Major disconnect; don't see where you're coming from.. at all. Objectification can certainly be paired with bigotry, and potentially exacerbate it, but it is not inherently bigoted... appreciating the pure aesthetics of the human form has been a classical & modern tradition in art for centuries; try not to shit on it...
This seems to presuppose that a work's cultural impact isn't something that can be considered to its benefit or detriment. Movies like The Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will are films that are known for two things: being legitimately revolutionary works in the medium of motion pictures, and being racist as all hell. Is it unfair to point out both of these things when discussing these movies? Should we be required to ignore the racism and focus purely on the cinematography? Is the content of the work somehow less relevant than the technical aspects of it?
I think I covered this in detail; I'd request that you re-read what I wrote. I didn't say racism/sexism/etc. could not or should not be pointed out... If that's what you managed to take away from what I wrote, I'm telling you emphatically that you need to read it again. What I expressed was a difference between pointing those things out in the context of analyzing & criticizing the work - focusing on the work - as opposed to writing a three page rant on how racism is bad and wrong, citing a couple scenes, and ignoring the rest of the film. I'm not sure if you read what I wrote, because your response seems to be to an imagined argument: that I somehow stated that racism should never be pointed out when criticizing a work. The phrase "straw man" has been tossed around a lot on this thread, but c'mon... read what I wrote, please.
I don't think anyone's actually doing that. Claiming that watching a movie or playing a game made you a bigot is patently absurd. Insisting that you're not responsible for your own actions, but the artist behind the media you consumed is instead, is equally ridiculous.
People criticizing media on cultural grounds aren't saying that that media is responsible for bigotry. They're saying that that media contributes to a bigoted culture, which doesn't absolve members of that culture of responsibility for their actions, but does contribute to the problem.
We are in complete agreement on the patent absurdity and ridiculousness of the claims, but we seem to disagree on whether anyone's actually making them... from http://feministfrequency.com/2014/06/16/women-as-background-decoration-tropes-vs-women/ we see:
In other words, viewing media that frames women as objects or sexual playthings, profoundly impacts how real life women are perceived and treated in the world around us. And that is all without even taking into account how video games allow for the more participatory form of objectification that we’ve been discussing in this episode.
Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages.
She's CLEARLY invoking the shoddily-researched, inconclusive, uncited BOOGEYMAN of the corrupting power of art & media, here... see it for what it is, please???
Andy, you too...
Andy used the word "fearmongering" earlier... to me, THIS is fearmongering.
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Some definite issues, but needs the feedback... a few tweaks here and there, I'm thinking?
-djp
Liam Charalambous
- Your ReMixer name: Magellanic
- Your real name: Liam Charalambous
- Your email address:
- Your userid: 45748
- Name of game(s) arranged: DuckTales
- Name of arrangement: Lunacy
- Name of individual song(s) arranged: The Moon
- Composer: Hiroshige Tonomura
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPkhhLC1tf8
Remix:
Hey Judges,
Been a while since I've been able to submit (or even play/produce any music). Definitely gotten rusty but hopefully you'll enjoy this rendition of the moon. Its a symphonic rock arrangement. I've experimented endlessly with symphonic elements in my music but this is my first, full attempt at actually incorporating orchestral instruments in a production. It isn't a typical orchestral arrangement. A lot of the writing influence comes from concert style music (aka no strings), with emphasis on brass ( I am a trombonist so, I do love my brass).
I've a lot to learn and practise with the realism but as far as this remix goes, I'd say its complete. It would be great to get your feedback regardless of whether it passes or not.
All the best to everyone at OCR,
Liam
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Could have been a DP but I just wanted to see some judge comments on THESE NEW JACK FEELS.
- djp
Snappleman:
Hi :3
ReMixer Name: DoD Music FactoryMembers: Coda, Finbeard, Midee, Snappleman, Yusef KelliebrewEmail: you know my email, silly :33333333
Game: Dracula X: Rondo of BloodName of arrangement: All I Wanna DoName of individual songs arranged: Opus 13, Opposing Bloodlines
So it was Magfest time in Dwelling of Duels, and the theme was DANCE MONTH! which basically meant submit a song that people can dance to. As usual I waited till the week before magfest before I even started thinking about it.
I figured I wanted to do some Bobby Brown sounding new jack swing, and I knew I wanted Chuck on vocal. I went to Coda and told him that I wanted a verse and chorus in A minor, new jack swing style. He had that bit tracked out in 20 minutes, we laughed at how silly it was. Then I sent it to Midee and we laughed at how silly it was, then Midee started doing what Midee does (making incredible music). So we worked out the song and got it sounding decent. Then I sent it to chuck and gave him some subject matter to write lyrics over, which he did, and then he sang and recorded them too. I worked out the rap section and all that, then I went to Yusef and asked him for a guitar solo in A minor, which he gave me within 10 minutes. Then I sat down and mixed the song, submitted to DoD and etc etc.
We kind of lost the Bobby Brown vibe early on but it turned out being an homage to early 90s hip hop/RnB/NKOTB, so that's good enough for us. Enjoy. -
Remixer: ibeginwiththeendinmind
Name: Chris RossEmail:User ID: 54548Link to remix:Game: The Dishwasher: Vampire SmileArrangement Title: A Prisoner's VengeanceOriginal Track: Perfect Nightmare"The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile" is an indie title on XBLA by Ska Studios; the studio also known for "Charlie Murder," "The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai," and "I MAED A GAM3 W1TH ZOMBIES 1N IT!!!1." The soundtrack is composed by James Silva, one half of the Studio's team.The original soundtrack for the game can be heard here:I felt inspired to join OCRemix after I had heard about it from ExtraCredits, and had had the idea of reworking this track floating around in my head for some time. I really love the atmosphere and language of the track, and felt that it was an incomplete idea, so I set out to flesh it out into what I have here. I moved the direction away from the industrial/punk sound it had, and made it into a straight up metal track. I was playing around with the idea of sung vocals, but I felt that keeping the whispering throughout was in keeping with the atmosphere.If there is any concern over how close the beginning of the song is to the original (and use of the lyrics therein), I do have permission from the copyright holder to use it in this manner, and his blessing over this song. -
Seems legit...
-djp--------------------
Good afternoon!
Just thought I'd send another submission to go with the "Then the Healing Came" remix I did for OCRemix.
Contact Information:
ReMixer Name: George R. Powell
Real Name: George R. Powell
Email address:
Website: http://www.georgerpowell.com
UserID: 52273
Submission Information:
Game: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Name of Arrangement: "Battle the Terrible Fate"
Songs Arranged: Last Day, Majora's Incarnate Battle
Misc Info:
After hearing the music to Majora's Mask, I could not help but note how haunting "Last Day" was. It was the one piece out of the entire game that left me with chills running down my spine. Not only did I have to compose a rendition of this piece, but I really wanted to see if I could use it to capture the moment of Child Link standing on the precipice of destruction to face his foe, only to find his foe rising in intimidation, the danger becoming more and more real, followed by the battle that our hero has now been thrust into.-------------------------
Final Hours -
Majora Final Battle Themes -
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WOULD NEED A NEW TITLE
Fairly conservative arrangement... - djp
Contact Information
- Your ReMixer name: DjAtio
- Your real name: Anthony Higham
- Your email address:
- Your website: www.soundcloud.com/anthony-higham
- Your userid (number, not name) on our forums, found by viewing your forum profile: 47686
Submission Information
- Name of game(s) arranged: Final Fantasy VII
- Name of arrangement: "FFVII Wall Market (DjAtio Remix)"
- Name of individual song(s) arranged: Wall Market (Nobuo Uematsu)
- I really enjoy the uniqueness of Nobuo Uematsu's compositions, but this one in particular caught my attention because it's a bit downtrodden, yet it's still interesting harmonically and melodically. I really wanted to emphasize the 12/8 feel because, it has a nice driving effect on the listener. I also wanted to incorporate a reggae/metal sound.
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Link to submission:
Contact InformationReMixer name: Jack VaineReal name: Aleksander OttesenEmail address:Website: www.jackvaine.comUserID: 53980Submission InformationName of game arranged:Banjo-KazooieName of arrangement:Gruntilda VictoriousName of individual song arranged:Gruntilda's LairAdditional information about game:N64, developed by Rare, Published by Nintendo in 1998. Composer: Grant KirkhopeLink to original soundtrack:My own comments about the mix:I really, really, really... Really, really love Banjo-Kazooie. A large portion of my childhood was consumed in front of the TV-screen playing that game. I think was nine or ten when I got it, and the entire melodic theme throughout the game had a huge part in me becoming interested in music in the first place.It seemed only fitting that I would try to remix the very theme that followed Banjo through most of his adventure, as it certainly has followed me through mine
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"The use of certain tropes about women reinforces negative cultural attitudes. Therefore, we encourage game developers to not use these tropes."
and
"The use of certain tropes about women reinforces negative cultural attitudes. Therefore, games which use these tropes should be banned."
One statement encourages infringement upon rights and freedom. The other does not.
I wasn't just talking about rights & freedom, I was talking about criticism vs. advocacy and then also the problem with saying that X art causes Y behavior, i.e. infantilizing the audience for art & turning artists into programmers who are simply feeding deterministic code into the minds of automatons who will do their bidding, without question.
You have this tendency to rephrase my arguments in the broadest possible sense, without ever addressing the specifics...
SPECIFICALLY, I am opposing rhetoric that attempts to draw direct causal lines between art and behavior. You've ignored that point almost entirely by rewriting it into "reinforces negative cultural attitudes"... all you need to do is add a "potentially" before the "reinforces" and you've arrived at the type of reasonable, relatively unobjectionable language that I wish Anita actually used. The problem is that she doesn't; she instead isolates aspects of games and - with zeal & certitude - maps them onto real-world behaviors. This isn't good. It's bad. It's a flawed argument commonly employed by censors; even if she is not advocating for censorship, she is using the same toolbox. Yes, it's still an important distinction to make - I'm not saying it's the same exact thing, only that it is still bad in & of itself.
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somebody deleted my post saying that somebody was making a slippery slope argument, I wouldn't have been surprised if someone was offended that zircon did essentially the same
Apologies, I only say the post of yours that was deleted that was simply you repeating your "Straw Man Quest" post, verbatim. If you had something more substantive to say that wasn't just repeating the same exact post, go for it. Posts shouldn't be deleted/hidden for logical fallacies alone...
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maybe somebody's deleting your posts
That'd be odd to start doing NOW, eh? Don't really appreciate the suggestion, either.
Andy:
- Hope you're using Lazarus browser plugin so form data doesn't get lost
- Try chunking the post? It shouldn't be a security related thing, so no idea why it would be getting lost... do you get an error?
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I can't possibly disagree with you more here. The alternatives are that game developers consider any criticism levied toward them, and choose whether to act on it or not. That's about one million steps away from censorship.
I've tried to be very clear in what I'm objecting to, but perhaps I've failed....
I'll try once more: When, rhetorically, one makes the claim that X type of art will lead directly to Y type of behavior - with zealous certitude - one is putting more than an aesthetic pressure on artists, one is essentially holding them morally/ethically responsible for the actions of those consuming their art...
It's not "one million steps away from censorship" - you keep using these extreme expressions, I'm wondering why?? - because in drawing direct causal lines between the consumption of media and certain types of behavior, it removes responsibility/accountability (i.e. agency) entirely from the audience and places it entirely on the artist. You can't possibly disagree with that more? Really? That's a million steps away from censorship? It's like... FIVE steps away... because if the audience for art cannot be expected to be responsible & accountable for their actions at ALL, and are GUARANTEED to become misogynist, racist, violent, etc. when consuming certain types of art, then what are we left with?
You can't shift 100% of the personal responsibility & accountability like that, treating the audience like a group of large, highly-impressionable children/robots who will inevitably do whatever art tells them to... and not expect SOME sort of negative impact with regard to freedom of expression.
Artists should be able to think of their work as a dialogue with the world, not as a set of rote instructions that will be carried out, sans introspection.
Human beings making art have agency, but so do human beings experiencing art; infantilizing the latter group occurs at the expense of the former, regardless of whether that infantilization is coupled with an explicit mandate to censor.
Mull that sentence over a few dozen times, please; chew it slowly, and see if you still feel the same way.
I can't make things clearer.
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Show me the legions of game critics who are actually, literally trying to ban games. I'm sure some people - somewhere - are saying that, but that's on the ultra-extreme part of the spectrum. For example, I've watched all of Anita's videos and she never, repeat never, says that games should be banned in any of them. I've read Leigh Alexander's work, I read Polygon, Kotaku, r/games, r/gaming every day... I'm not seeing this narrative of critics trying to ban games. That's simply fearmongering at it's worst (the kind Shadowe has bought into, hook line and sinker).
Fearmongering can get a whole lot worse... it's kind of funny that you'd criticize overstatement via overstatement. It's not just funny, it's the FUNNIEST!
I agree that Shadowe should back those claims of explicit speech up with some quotes/links; as far as I've seen, personally, Anita & Leigh are very careful to avoid explicitly advocating for the banning/censoring of games...
But Andy, as I've repeatedly pointed out, their rhetoric & "reasoning" are the SAME as those who've advocated for banning games (books/movies/etc.) in the past...
As I've repeatedly pointed out, they assert direct causal lines between games and negative behaviors, with the type of overzealous certitude that, even if it's careful enough to avoid directly advocating censorship, leaves one very little ideological breathing room for alternatives...
As I've repeatedly pointed out, they use zero-sum arguments which, instead of articulating an inclusive message that gaming is big enough to welcome/encourage other types of games, and other types of gamers, instead REALLY focus on how they think gaming is a town that's "too small for the both of us" - an exclusionary message. They're fighting fire with fire, exclusionary attitudes with exclusionary attitudes, when the opposite is needed. See Leigh's absurd GamaSutra piece on the death of the "gamer," for instance... it's not about widening the umbrella, as it should be, it's about kicking some folks & some games out from under it.
What does it matter if they're careful enough to avoid directly stepping on the landmine of censorship, when they're employing every last rhetorical trick & argumentative fallacy that actual & would-be censors have, in the past? Did we not deplore those arguments, then? Are they only nonsensical and absolutist arguments when in the presence of an explicit demand? Do they suddenly become admirable or reasonable as long as the "magic word" isn't spoken? It's almost.... less honest. It's like when racists avoid using the N-word and speak in euphemisms.... you KNOW what they're trying to say, because you've HEARD the story before...
Call me crazy, but I think art is improved & enriched through karma... not dogma.
Sure, I agree that some criticism falls way more on the side of advocacy than analysis. But I don't agree that any criticism has an "obligation" to anything at all. All criticism is ultimately subjective and affected by our conscious and unconscious biases. It's fine to strive for pure objectivity and I respect that. I also think there's nothing inherently wrong with writing critique through an explicitly-stated 'lens' (like feminist issues, racial issues).Criticism can be filtered through a lens, but it should still be looking at something... when the art drifts out into peripheral vision (and beyond), it becomes rhetoric.
What you're basically saying is that you have no internal standard as to what the word "criticism" even means. Okay, that's cool. I do. As I made clear, cultural criticism - to be considered as criticism, to me - still has an obligation to put the work first & foremost, to probe instead of proselytize. If you're saying that as long as someone is talking about art, even if they're transparently using it as an excuse to push an agenda and don't really seem to care much about the art, you still consider that criticism, well... we strongly disagree. As stated, I respect both art & criticism too much to be that... lenient.
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Andy, I do think there's a line between criticism and advocacy (or, on an extreme end of the spectrum, propaganda)... criticism would be primarily interested in the merit of a work; advocacy would use "critique" of that work to further a given ideological agenda. It CAN be a blurry line, I admit; here are some questions one might ask to try and suss out the difference on a case-by-case basis:
- Is the criticism in general primarily focused on how the specific work being criticized could be improved, OR is the "criticism" more interested in how that work confirms/supports a larger ideological point?
- Does the criticism allow for uncertainty or plurality of possible interpretations while asserting a single interpretation as merely preferable (or more firmly supported), OR does it mandate its own interpretation as being self-evident and mutually exclusive with any alternatives?
- Is the tone exploratory or dogmatic?
- Is more time spent on the personal effect/impression of the work on the critic, or on the perceived (or worse, guaranteed as being inevitable) effect of the work on an imagined public?
I've highlighted what I view more as criticism in green and what I view as advocacy in red.
You (or Radiowar, if he were still contributing!) might respond that the explicit role of cultural criticism IS to advocate and that the above list makes that impossible, but I would counter that EVEN so-called cultural criticism has an obligation to focus on the work first and foremost, to maintain an exploratory/analytical emphasis, and to avoid too much certitude regarding the inevitability of the work's effect on others.
It's worth asking yourself these questions.
Bottom line: Is the work being informatively analyzed on its merits, or is it being opportunistically used for its (perceived) flaws?
Hopefully my list makes sense to you... it's all free speech, either way, but I respect & reserve the word "criticism" for discourse that meets more of these criteria than not, because I tend to see advocacy as having an ulterior motive that puts the work second (or dead last) and puts the "message" first, which results in highly compromised analyses - the "critic" is obligated to apply an active filter to anything that doesn't fit with the paradigm and to use a persuasive tone at all times. It doesn't matter if I might agree with the message or not, because I respect art enough, and indeed criticism enough, to not admire the former being used as a tool, under the guise & protection of the latter, for what amounts to rhetoric in the service of a third party who is ultimately disinterested in the work - SAVE for how it can strengthen their thesis.
You want more variety for female characters in games? So do I... but we both also want video games to be recognized as art, right?
Advocacy that uses games to articulate an agenda & only pays lip service to the idea of criticism diminishes the idea of games as art, because it doesn't respect them enough to give them the actual analysis that would be afforded films, novels, songs, or most other art forms.
It is a trivialization of the medium, in the transparent & opportunistic service of dogma.
You can't be okay with that JUST because the dogma in question resonates with you, in its distilled & most benign incarnation.
Done.
I feel pretty good about this post, because I was able to express most of my objections with clarity for once. Plus colors are neat & ordered lists are cool.
- Torzelan, JJT and timaeus222
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Let's take you off the liberal hivemind grid and reinforce that art, as a concept, cannot be held responsible for encouraging people to be sexist, racist, etc. any more than it can be held responsible for school and theater shootings among other violence. This precedent has been scientifically proven, thus rendering any concepts that real world values plummet as a result of big, awesome boobies null and void.
Uh-oh, I find myself agreeing with Meteo and nodding my head reading his post... getting worried
Since I'm a word freak: there's a difference between something BEING responsible for something else, and something being HELD responsible for something else.
Based on your "scientifically proven" comment (it's more that it hasn't been proven that causation exists, not that it's been proven that it doesn't exist, FYI), I'm thinking you meant BEING responsible, not being HELD responsible, right?
Also, conservatives have had their share of demonizing art & asserting its causation with undesirable behaviors; it's a bipartisan hobby
Here's my point: I'm interested in good art. If that art speaks to the human condition, explores new ideas, and asks me to face complexity and think about things differently, we're all good. Even if that art CAN be "scientifically proven" to increase violence in 5% of the population, over a short period of time after consumption, what then? Even if it IS responsible - to whatever extent - should it ever be HELD responsible? Also, what other effects are you studying? Maybe there's a compensating short or long-term benefit? Difficult to know... you don't really want to go down this road, as it doesn't lead to nice places w/ regard to artistic expression. Anita walks all the way down the road, stops at the big door at the end of the road, and ALMOST knocks... but then reminds everyone that she's NOT advocating for censorship OR saying that the games she criticizes shouldn't exist. Therein lies the problem: the "reasoning" all fits a certain pattern, but it's being excused because of a repeated disclaimer, which seems disingenuous given all the vitriol & certitude...
Nothing but fanservice? Can you name for me a game when a character's giant tits were actually important to the story and also wasn't just used as a strawman "message" for or against feminism? The other option is just making sure female characters only have modest-sized breasts which becomes a problem when talking about "diversity" as you call it.
He's... not wrong; NativeJovian seemed to give objectification an "out" as not inherently being sexist, but only if that objectification was for characters that weren't JUST window-dressing. Well, either you're okay with mindless sexual objectification or you're not... you need to decouple those issues. Is all pron sexist? Only some? In some ways, as Meteo points out, it's WORSE if a meaningful, well-written character is also inordinately voluptuous... it was a rather meaningless stipulation, in my mind...
- Torzelan and timaeus222
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I'm a man, but I always play games as a female character, because most of the times it is an option. (Examples Destiny, Dragon Quest Heroes, Warframe, Fallout 4{yup I went there}, Assassins Creed Syndicate, etc)... To me this proves that the apocalyptic anti-female scenario in gaming is a bit exaggerated, but then I see articles like this: http://www.starwipe.com/article/cara-delevingne-kicks-ass-call-duty-trailer-its-ab-1073
I believe there have been some studies that suggest (not conclusively, but being conclusive about something like this is VERY difficult) that heterosexual male gamers often play as female characters simply because they'd rather spend more time staring at a female body than a male one.
Personally? Guilty as charged. No shame.
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So to tie this lengthy post together, what's happening right now is that "real" gamers are lashing out because their view of what gaming is supposed to mean culturally, which is largely derived from the period they grew up in during the 90's and 00's, is being challenged as the industry is growing to become more diverse and inclusive.
Well said; I just don't view it as zero-sum, nor do I view "hardcore" gaming as something that necessarily needs to evaporate to let the medium truly flourish. It can't be the standard-bearer for the art form, sure, but I don't think it really has been, for some time...
I like the enthusiast car metaphor, because I see a lot of parallels. I'll temporarily invoke some biology/evolutionary psychology and put it out there that males are inherently more aggressive/competitive and enjoy tinkering away for hours on end if it means an inch or two gain in whatever pissing contest is going on. I view this as a double-edged sword; it contributes to disproportionate amounts of male insecurity, posturing, & resource waste, but it also motivates autodidacts & fanatics to push boundaries. You see this in enthusiast car culture just as you see this in enthusiast PC build/overclocking culture just as you see it in hardcore gaming culture, which is related to the latter. Most of us drive cars, and MANY of us are interested in different models & partake in associating our own identity with the brand of automobile we choose to drive - no field of advertising is perhaps quite as saturated with identity politics as automobile sales. Enthusiast car culture exists alongside mainstream car culture; the former is largely male, the latter is uniformly diverse, by necessity. Is this problematic? Can there be niches within cultures/mediums that simply tend to break down along gender lines, or any other demographic lines? I think the answer is a resounding yes.... the only problem is when the enthusiast culture mistakes itself for the mainstream culture, I suppose
But see here, if you look at how Anita was expressing herself, it WAS zero-sum... her statements were very clearly NOT of a "gaming needs to branch out & diversify" breed (as Larry rewrote them to be) but rather of a "this type of game is wrong and bad and needs to go away" ilk... thus the reaction. It's one thing to tell an enthusiast culture to make room, that the medium is a big enough umbrella for all types of folks. That's a message I can stand behind. It's quite another thing to tell enthusiast culture that it needs to crawl in a hole and die; this is more or less what Anita and Leigh went with, and it's just NOT necessary, or even desirable.
- timaeus222, swansdown and Torzelan
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Holy shit there's still people who believe this wasn't all for profit and that there were victims. And people straight-face lying then right after saying "stop spouting crap".
It's hard to know whether it became about profit (in some meaningful and compromising sense of the word) at some point AFTER it exploded, but I find it very difficult to believe that it was about profit from the get-go... no evidence to support that, in Zoe's case it was her boyfriend that kicked the whole sad & sorry sequence of events into motion, and in Anita's case I find it hard to fathom that she was sitting there planning on death threats being a key part of her fundraising strategy. That's a bit much to swallow... whether, after the money started flowing in, there were some realizations about what was effective and what was not is a different story... but even that doesn't HAVE to be compromising, or of paramount significance... it can just be pragmatism. Is Capitalism on trial?
I feel as though this is the millennial gaming and geek culture freaking out over the inevitable growth of the industry into a true mainstream force of pop culture attracting new demographics, and view this as some sort of intrusion on "their" safe space (that being video games, but also stuff like comic books, and to an extent, even the internet itself). And of course it was theirs to begin with, because the almighty gods of marketing in the 90's proclaimed it to be so.
I think the "safe space" concept is probably appropriate, and I think something like this was probably inevitable.
As for the "gods of marketing" proclaiming video games (or anything else) to thoroughly belong to a given demographic, I don't really think it works that way. It's a pleasant fiction to think that there are cadres of misled businessmen pulling the strings of an unwitting public and telling us who we are & how to be, but I think things grow up & evolve a little more organically than that.
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I had a longer response but I'm gonna try again...
At the end of the day, they're mainly being attacked for wanting more equitable representation of women in the games industry and more well-rounded storytelling for female characters in games, neither of which deserve criticism.
I don't believe this is an accurate description of Anita's views; her videos actually focus less on storytelling and more on presentation, and she's very plainly demonizing some things being unacceptable to her, instead of criticizing the lack of variety (i.e. well-roundedness). I honestly & truthfully believe that had her videos advocated for "more well-rounded storytelling for female characters in games," that she would not have received 1/100th the hatred and attacks. There would still have been some, mind you, but we know from experience that even posting free VGM arrangements will piss SOME people off, and there's an undeniable vein of misogyny both online (in general) and in the gaming community specifically. Nevertheless, I feel that it was quite specifically the demonizing, negative tone, questionable knowledge of her subject matter, inconsistencies, sex-negative attitude towards objectification, and re-hash of failed second-wave feminist arguments that fueled the flames.
A thoughtful analysis on the lack of variety, a critical exploration of the potential impacts (not certitudes, as she expresses them) of certain behaviors/depictions, and a thesis that truly emphasized improvement of the medium... coupled with a stronger grasp of her subject matter... very difficult to see how that would have had the same effect.
Her views, as she has expressed them, very plainly deserve a great deal of criticism.
People online get harassed every day. They don't all magically get a following and lots of money. Anita & Zoe have created (and continue to create) media that lots of people find valuable and important. Whether you agree with that content or not is beside the point. They were creators before they came into the spotlight for harassment and they continue to create after.
Well, there's some seemingly-deserved criticism about lack of creation & following through on the KS on Anita's part, is there not? Especially given the degree to which it was over-funded? Surely this specific criticism can be acknowledged objectively & independent of anything else...
As for magically getting a following based on harassment... no, it helps when you are:
- A member of a group that is oppressed/marginalized in some fashion
- Doing work that arguably involves exposing/fighting this oppression/marginalization
- Are able to successfully publicize this harassment in a context relevant to your work
That's NOT a list of criticisms/faults, but it explains why not everyone being harassed is getting a following, even if they are creators. If the work they are doing is perceived as somehow relevant to combating the harassment they are experiencing, publicizing attacks can dovetail very nicely into efficient fundraising. It's hard to fault anyone too much for this, as it appears to simply be the new reality - hatred can be monetized, for better or worse. My objection is that this might tend to create situations that make it very tempting to characterize ANY criticism of you or your work as being an attack, or representative of those who have attacked you, to discredit the criticism outright AND to provide further evidence of the challenges you face... which require continued donations.
It's not a great situation for meaningful discourse when you continually give your worst, most ridiculous opponents a megaphone so as to make your OWN case, then lump ANY criticism from other outlets into that same group...
It isn't admirable.
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I don't really understand where the whole "both sides" thinking comes from. You either condone harrassment or you don't.
GG may not have been primarily about "ethics in game journalism," as it has been thoroughly lambasted for claiming, but it also wasn't just about being in "favor" of harassment in the abstract. More of a sociopolitical schism between gamers at large, who are a diverse lot, and game journos, who seem to not only lean hard left, but be okay with injecting that ideology into something that ostensibly should be a little more neutral... if you ask me. No need for a reductionist counterclaim... much of what GG has been associated with, accurately or otherwise, impeaches itself without the need for oversimplification.
Speaking as a liberal, I think the medium is rich enough to support works that speak to many different audiences, with criticism & coverage to match.
I'm all for resuscitating this thread and seeing where people stand, a year later... as for this movie, well... do video game movies ever work out well? Will nuance even be considered, or are we looking at a feel-good tale of "good" vs. "evil"?
*NO* Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 'An Oath of Destiny Fulfilled'
in Judges Decisions
Posted · Edited by Liontamer
closed decision
Don't know why he put "Sonic & Knuckles" as game name
Production could use improvement but arrangement seems nice?
- djp
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Zelda "Majora's Mask" is probably the most loved Zelda game that I have ever played. I love games that kinda breaks away from tradition, and MM did just that. From being able to use multiple masks to change the gameplay of zelda, to constantly playing the Song of Time (and it's variations) and restarting the giant clock multiple times, It is a sure lock at the top spot in my book. Collecting all those masks was a sure pain though
Now for the remix, I always wanted to do this song. I first heard it when I downloaded the MM Soundtrack. I feel it's a call for help. Help from four giants who lost a friend to evil, and would do anything to save him, including holding the moon up to heed the destruction of Termina. This was a very hard song to articulate while making a true "remixed" version, as well as trying to stay as close to the original as I can. The hardest part was the build up portions of the song. Koji Kondo and Toru Minegishi really made it difficult for me to remix just because of how great of a job they did; however, no task is without a challenge. I really wanted to focus on the effect on Link as he travels through the land of Termina. I emphasized the effect of the "Oath to Order" to make it reflect the importance of him saving Termina. I am proud of the finished product! Here is the youtube channel for the song. Just like fire emblem, it kinda explains the feel of different portions of the remix. Hope yall enjoy! Be Blessed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teCAobgEZvc