APZX

Rise from the dead my thread! RISE! Right so, after some very annoying glitches with VSTs and having to rebuild the project and a super crazy hectic work schedule I have made progress on the track from Revision 4. In fact I'm on revision 7 now, but 5 & 6 were mostly the seeds to what revision 7 is. There are a ton of little changes in this one that deal primarily with how I went about started approaching the soundscape in general. There is just more going on, but in a good way. Hopefully, it is just a few elements that just help lift the track in certain spots. I'm still not 100% if I like all the changes I did. But I did finally get around to changing the bass up to something different. I also had some more play with the breakdown. I still haven't changed up the percussion patterns nor the bass patterns. However, the bass now has more movement to it thanks to some filter changes. Now, to me with all that is happening up top it doesn't really seem to get boring with the percussion or bass. They're there for foundation and hold the track constant. At least to me that is what it seems like. Listen or Download Rev 7

Sorry, I couldn't submit a bonus track. Work has simply been killing me lately. This is my first bit of time to kind of have to myself. I do find it interesting that Big Blue was chosen over Gloomy personally. I voted and found some really nice gems in here. Overall great stuff and best of luck to all the entrants. Even though I didn't submit a track I do offer this which is a cover I did about 5 months ago with some hardware.

I'll be the first to say that I didn't expect to get very high. Perfectly honest? I thought I'd get in the middle or some such. Regardless congrats to Chernabogue and everyone else who entered. This was a lot of fun.

Okay, you've got a solid intro. It is fun and gets folks into the mood. Honestly, this is one of the better intros I've heard in a while. Anyway, then the breakdown comes in. It is from this point that I think the big issues stem from the track. You come off the breakdown quite well if a bit slowly. This is a nice change of pace that you really don't see often enough IMO. You start layering in different elements of the track. Though you never really get a climax going. There are these nice big supersaws in the background. There is this nice bass underneath things. There is a nice bell in the background. And well that is the problem everything is everywhere but the foreground. Look to me this is just begging for a lead line in the back end of the track. Put it in the foreground. Make it loud and proud to be nothing but a lead. I can almost hear the lead in my head right now. Honestly, as the track wore on I was wondering when it was going to come in, but it never did.

HoboKa, That isn't necessary but I do appreciate the offer. The problems I'm mainly hearing stem from the conversion to MP3 from WAV. There really isn't a lot I can do about them except drop the level of the track about a dB or so. I don't think that is really necessary for a Meat and Potatoes kind of thing. Plus, these issues I'm talking about are quite small and not hugely noticeable unless you're really looking for them.

Probably, but after giving the track a few listens today I'm not super concerned. My biggest changes would be some small compression changes and minor automation points to deal with some smaller issues I feel exist. But overall I think I did a decent job with the mix. Could I make it sound better? Absolutely.

See, you're now starting to think a bit like how a Trance track would be set up, melodic reprisals or hints. But I'm really serious in how small changes can make a huge impact. An example would be having your closed hat playing as if there is an open hat there. Without it still works, but the moment you add the open hat things just get more driving and complete sounding. Just the open hat and no closed hats? What about swapping which beat the snare is on? These things aren't really game changing in feel, but small little things that just mix it up. I guess the biggest piece of advice I can give you is to just experiment with small variations and see where that takes you. If you just started in July you're like a billion times further than I was when I started. When I first started I couldn't make a kick & bassline sound good together. Now, I think I've got an okay grasp on mixing, but am still far too lacking in other production skills. It just takes so much work and thought to even do small changes to a track regardless of it being a remix or not. Sometimes I question whether that work pays off in the end or not. But when you listen to the track and get that perfect sense of sounds gelling together? That just makes all the headache all good.

You know that is the fun thing with basslines. Dynamic basslines can work even if the track is fast. I mean go listen to some Goa or Psytrance for prime examples of quick paced basslines or heck go listen to some earlier Tiesto work to see how strange bass patterns can work. The thing I've found with them though is they're really dependent upon what the upper melodic lines are doing. If it is really busy in the higher frequency stuff then a fast paced bassline with a ton of dynamic variation can be quite confusing and not really all that good. Sometimes too you get into the situation that a plain simple off beat bass just works best. Creating the most drive, groove, etc . . .. With this at 128 bpm it definitely works better. Now, despite me loving this theme myself and how much I myself want to do a remix of it, but I've got a Metroid one in the works. I'm going to say this. You've got a great groove going on and that really helps cement it. You've got some great renditions of the different elements as well, but the biggest downfall I feel is that the track has an almost samey feeling to it throughout. Having done work in the EDM arena before I can say that this sounds intentional. However, I feel that you're missing a smaller, but really important facet. When the repeat sections come in there is almost always a small variation going on. In shorter tracks you can kind of be forgiven for repeating to a degree. Really try to think about how you can do small variations that would help mix things up a little bit, but don't really change what you're going for in terms of feeling. For example even small switches in the percussion patterns can have a huge impact on the way the track sounds, but not change the overall feeling. Something you might consider since I'm not really hearing it is actually a pad towards the end of the break and into the second verse. If used appropriately it will lift the track up in a very good way. If you're concerned with it taking too much of your sonic space that is easy to remedy. Pads can occupy exactly what you need them to. Also, a thing with pads or strings is to not be super concerned with keeping their dynamic range intact. A lot of times you can squeeze 5 even 10dB from them and not hear it in the context of the mix itself. Add some sidechaining in and good EQ? Man they can just fill out the track. Final thing I'm going to comment on is to be careful with overall loudness, but probably not in the way you're thinking. Listen to your chorus parts vs your verse or breakdown parts. The kick, general percussion, and bass is noticeably quieter because it is trying compete with those lead synths. The track is starting to collapse a bit. I know that sounds a bit nitpicky, but it is something to be very mindful of and is very avoidable. The track should be well controlled throughout and at the end you're only adding some volume with a little bit of limiting. Good use of compression and perhaps some EQ for some polish is all you really need to get it sounding complete. The last bit of limiting is there mainly to give you just a small extra push of level. If you had more going on I'd be more forgiving, but this is a fairly sparse arrangement in terms of density, which makes it much easier to keep the volume & loudness of the various instruments much easier. But really I'm digging this. As I said great groove, solid development of space, those leads sounds fantastic, the overall rendition to me sounds solid if a bit truer to source than I personally like to be. But seriously this is sounding good to me.

It does have a bit of a Beverly Hills Cop kind of feel to it. I dunno though I feel as though this could be sped up a few BPM and work better. Right now it sounds a bit more plodding than really "dancey" IMO. You'd be surprised at what just a few BPM can do for that kind of thing. The bass works better than I thought it would honestly. Definitely has a groove to it though. But seriously I think a handful of BPM up would give a more dance feel to it. It has a groove to it now, but I think if you wanted to get it more into the realm of dance then definitely speeding it up a bit would be a big boon.

Well, what I meant by that was I mixed it in a day and rather than wait until the next day to make sure things were basically the way I wanted them I subbed it. Never underestimate that single day. It means quite a bit in the long run.

I probably should have spent another day or two to let the mix sit with me, but what is done is done.

Hmmmm, interesting choice of source this one is because I fondly remember the theme myself. I was young and couldn't really do anything in this game, but man this theme is just so much fun. In honor of the theme I present a quick cover (made quickly using some hardware in case anyone was wondering). And if I can focus on my remix long enough I'll have one for this.

It depends on which one you get as they have quite different levels of MIDI implementation. If you want some reviews Sound on Sound did a good write up. At the bottom of the review Paul Nagle did a reasonable summary of the MIDI capabilities of each module.

Esperado, As I said I want a Blofeld as well. I just haven't gotten around to getting one. It really is a fantastic synth. Noise problems are kind of inevitable with synths or keyboards. I've got my fair share of them: Korg Radias & DS-8, Roland SH-201 & D-110, DSI Mopho, Access Virus Rack, E-MU Procussion, and two Yamaha TX81z's. The quietest synths are the Radias, Mopho, and Virus. All the others produce audible hiss. If you listen to Big Blue at the very beginning you can hear the hiss from the Procussion. I've really got to purchase a couple of hardware gates. I've been looking at something like the DBX 1074 or Drawmer MX40 Pro, but those cost $$$. I mean if I multitracked the synths I could easily mitigate the noise, but where is the fun of that? I really need to build a proper desk for my mixer. Anyway, I really do hope you get a lot of use from the Blofeld. It is a great choice of a synth. Lots of sound in there if IMO slightly obtuse to program.

Esperado, I'd have no qualms about having a Blofeld. In fact I want one too. It is a great synth with a great sound to it. I'll give you some examples of the Radias in action though. Mind these are covers because I'm merely experimenting with what hardware I've got. For the most part in these there are only 4 synths in use. These were then run into a Peavey PV6 and the output of that was sent to the line level inputs of my Focusrite Saffire Pro 24. In several instances I double tracked the synths to get full coverage of the tracks. Anyway on to the examples. 1 - FF VIII's Ami The Radias is pretty much doing all the heavy lifting here. That main Epiano sound is the Radias and the reverb is from the synth. The soft pad is the Roland SH-201 and the little square lead is the DSI Mopho. 2 - Super Mario Kart's Rainbow Road The Radias again is the main sound. Just some nice slowish saws with porta on them. The percussion sounds were provided by an E-MU Procussion. The bass is the Mopho. The little bell sound is the SH-201. 3 - Star Fox's Corneria The radias takes a back seat in this one and provides most of the background sounds. The opening arp? That is the Radias and is also the nicely filtered sound. The main lead is the SH-201. The bass is a double layering of the Mopho. Percussion again is courtesy of the Procussion. 4 - Canyon from the Window's Media Folder The Epiano and opening pluck are the Radias. The lead & pad are the SH-201. Bass and resonant sound are the Mopho. Not a surprise, but the percussion is again the Procussion. 5 - Earthworm Jim's New Junk City The opening pad with the arp until :09 is the Radias. As is the organ. The bass again is the Mopho. The strange synth playing the main melody is actually the Procussion (it also has quite a nice Marimba in there). The SH-201 just plays a support role doing mostly background arps with one being provided by the Mopho as well. Of course percussion is the Procussion. 6 - F-Zero's Big Blue This one features the Access Virus Rack as the main lead instrument with the Mopho providing the counter lead and bass. The organ is purely and squarely the Radias. Percussion is the Procussion once again and that strange synth finds its way back in here from that thing too. 7 - Twinbee Yahho!'s Stage 6 Theme Probably the most ambitious cover I've tried this way and doesn't do enough justice to original, but oh well it was fun to do. Basically the Radias in this case provides just pads to fill out the background and giving the high arp. Other than the Virus gives the strings and the panned sound in the breaks. Mopho delivers the bass & lead. Percussion is yet again the Procussion. Sorry, about the Radias not being upfront all the time, but I hope it gives you an idea of how it can be used and how it actually sounds in some practical uses. If you want to just hear the synth doing its thing then https://soundcloud.com/apzx/guess-the-synth-3 is just the Radias. It has been awhile since I looked at this, but if I remember most of these are just patches included with the Radias itself. It is quite a lovely little synth that I quite enjoy. If you want something more specific let me know and I'll see what I can do.

I have some hardware synths and unless you want a hardware synth for another color I cannot really say I'd recommend purchasing one. They're slower to use than most VSTs and you cannot have multiple copies of them and they can get down right expensive. That right there to me are a few disadvantages to hardware synths. Having said that I love them because they're different than using VSTs and you're really kind of forced to get creative using them. Out of synths you listed I only own one, the Korg Radias. I really like the Radias because it is kind of like an Access Virus without being a Virus (though I do own a Virus B Rack too). It is a hard synth to describe because it really is one of those synths that has an extremely wide breadth of sounds it can do. A quick play with it would make you think of it more as a relatively competent and clean virtual analog synth. However, there is much more on offer than that. You can get DX style Epianos thanks to Virtual Phase Modulation or VPM. Huge giant moving pads are easy as well thanks to the multitimbrality; dual step sequencers and arp make it even easier to do. Want a good sounding vocoder? You got it. Need a drum machine in a pinch? Got it. That is only scratching the surface too because when you start designing sounds you've got all sorts of ways to make the sound dirtier and grittier without even getting into the FX section, which for included FX they're actually quite good. It is a very fast synth to program as well thanks to all the knobs. You've got 4 layers that you can program and this is where it starts getting confusing and starts to slow down a bit because if you don't pay attention you may be manipulating the wrong section of the synth. It is one of those synths that sits in a weird space of not being amazingly great at any one thing, but it also doesn't really suck at anything either. I can find a place for it on pretty much any track I do because of its ability to do most anything you'd need a synth to do. There are a ton of great demos out there and the Sound on Sound review actually does a good job of covering the synth. I can provide samples of it in concert with a few other synths to give you an idea of how it can sound in practical use (just me messing around and doing covers of some simpler VGM to see what I can do with a very limited set up of hardware) if you'd like. That description of the Radias is one of the reasons I've started digging more into hardware synths and hardware in general. Not because they're necessarily better or faster than VSTs, but because they're different and instead present a new way of approaching the same problem. If you're going for a different color or want to approach the problem from a different perspective than yeah buying a synth is something that I'd wholly recommend. If instead you want to explore your current sound palette more in depth than a MIDI controller a much better investment IMO. You're going to have ask yourself what you want to do and that is going to really determine your answer.

The be more clear with your descriptions. It states VERY CLEARLY on the description "Mixing/Mastering". Those two words are not synonymous. I'm not assuming anything other than what your description states.

Timaeus, That really isn't much of a comparison as the elements are balanced differently. A proper comparison is against a track that is already mixed with compression added after the fact then A/Bing between the two. Any other way completely negates the point of the comparison as something done to a single instrument such as the lead can drastically influence how individuals will interpret (i.e. hear) the main keys in a track. That is just a stupid example, but the point is that by changing one instrument in the mix the way the mix is heard is also changed in more than one way. Quick example of just turning on & off some light Master Compression (~2dB GR: 30ms attack, 100ms release, 4:1 ratio) Before After

Really like the piano. Not sure how I feel about the drums though as this is supposed to be chill, but is actually very upbeat in terms of melody and sound. Yet paces itself completely on the instrumentation & sonic density. Which I guess is an interesting dichotomy. The bells (not sure if it actually is or not) are quite pretty too. That is another thing too, you've got the melodic instruments as these really pretty things, but the bass & percussion are much more aggressive by their very nature. That to me is just kind of strange. However, at least you kept with it. Keep it careful with those high harmonics though. Sounds pretty good to me overall though. Also, that instrument in the left when the lead is playing? Awesome.

Definitely feeling those last comments. The problem I found with small details is that if you put too many in it gets over crowded & can sound almost sporadic. It requires a light touch. So, I need to take a break from this for a bit now. There are a lot of little things that I changed in revision 4. Hopefully, nothing should really "stand out" but the track should stand out a bit more if that makes any sense. More pads and some fun little effects. Still need to work on the bass. The problem is that I've been so focused on changing the macro aspects of the soundscape that I haven't really gotten to the fine details of the low end yet. I will get there at some point. Link to listen or download rev 4. Again let me know what you guys think. I'm aware that there are a multitude of issues yet with the track. I'm slowly working my way through them. It just takes time heh.

Timaeus, That opening brass sound is drenched in ValhallaVintageVerb already. I mean I can put more on it. The issue I think is that you're not hearing a lot of HF information in the reverb, which is completely intentional because I find too much HF in the reverb can be as bad as excessive HF distortion. I realize that the arp is clashing with the pad & brass sound harmonically. I'm not sure if I want to keep it the way it is, fix it, or make the clashing lesser but almost more sinister like. I do like the idea of fading the kick back in during the second half of the track, but I think it might be more interesting to shelf the low end back in with just a tiny bit of volume fading. That could actually be pretty interesting. You are right that the opening isn't elaborate. Really overall the track isn't elaborate at all, and it really isn't meant to be. The thing I'm having problems with is finding which instruments that I can add that keep it sparse yet full at the same time because I want it to seem that it is sparse & is not elaborate. That is the real tricky thing to do. I mean I could go ahead and throw in another dozen or more layers to the sound no problem, but then it would turn into this dense thing that doesn't do anything interesting. I'm honestly starting to think at this point that I need to start thinking about little background FX details, as I have none right now. And I really need to change up the bass sound the more I listen to it. You say deep analog bass, huh? Hmmm, I might be able to do something with that. More things for me to consider.

Slimy, I know the opening is the original chords. I did say that I found taking those and stretching them created an interesting bed of sound to work with. But honestly I do agree with you on the opening which is why this next revision is entirely just working on the opening even if only slightly. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the middle section yet. I know it still needs something, but I just haven't figured out what. However, your comment about the Metroid Prime solo did spark a change to the Intro in the form of a single instrument. Honestly, one of the longest lead lines I've written in a very long time. Not entirely sure it works the all the way through, but I don't think it is all that bad. So, with that being said I present the third revision of the track. The largest change is the inclusion of an opening lead line that goes for about 2 and half minutes. Listen or Download

I started a few days ago on a remix of . I decided to go a bit on the more atmospheric side of things. The remix borrows heavily from the source but I found that stretching out the main chords while maintaining the original timing of other instruments makes for an almost totally different feel to the piece. I've still got a lot of work to do and I'm only on my second revision to the track right now. Listen or download rev 2 Listen or download rev 3 Listen or download rev 4 Listen or download rev 7 Listen or download rev 8 Some things I know I need to work on already: - The percussion is pretty minimal and I need to put some more variation in there; i.e. a few more individual elements and change up the patterns. *Something I noticed about the bass as well is that keeping these fairly minimal and the same adds a certain hypnotic quality I feel* **Some slight changes here mainly for accenting certain points in the first half** - The bass while I mostly like still needs work. Right now it is Synthmaster Player but I really want to change it to something else, but that is going to necessitate building a new sound from scratch. Just not something I'm in the mood for currently. Additionally, I really need to vary the pattern a bit more. *Changed the sound up, but haven't changed the pattern. It seems kind of hypnotic keeping it the same throughout the track* **Again some slight accenting, but primarily adding some more movement as it were in the second half of the track** - The main pads while exactly what I want I almost feel there is something else missing. Haven't figured out what yet. Thinking some pumping synth strings at certain times would be a great addition. Possibly a full on arp to add more texture. Have experimented, but nothing I've tried I really like. - I realize there is distortion at a few points. Haven't figured out what it is and probably has more to do with the individual instruments. - Mix has a billion issues, but it will change quite dramatically before I'm fully done with this. Any suggestions on things to try to make it an interesting listen would be appreciated. - The breakdown I want to make it more unsettling, but haven't decided on how yet. Really need to ramp up the volume of that section as it goes on though. *Did some changes here and feel pretty good about it now* So, yeah still long ways to go, but definitely turning out to something interesting yet. Let me know what you think.

I'm pretty fickle with mixing and little things bother me. It really isn't your fault or the likes. But when you start paying really close attention to how professional music is mixed and then start applying what you've heard yourself to mixes you're actually doing then little things start sticking out like a sore thumb. For example the acoustic guitar. I really like the overall sound of it. It is a very lovely sounding instrument and my problem isn't with the actual instrument's tone at all. Instead it has to do with how the body of the acoustic guitar presents itself in comparison to the rest of the instruments in the mix. Ever hear a mix that was boxy or boomy? Conceptually not different at all, but more subtle. Honestly, you could probably tone it down with a simple EQ move (probably in the territory of 200-500Hz just try a simple cut in those areas by like 2-3dB). That at least would be my first try if I were mixing and there are others things I would try if that didn't work. But I'm getting too far ahead. Now, for blending of spaces, reverb. It doesn't have to be a perfect match either. Try looking at the cathedral or really big hall presets on your favorite reverb. After the reverb you'll probably want to add some EQ to make it match a bit better. Then mix the instruments that don't have the same kind of space to them into the reverb. If you need to mute the instruments from actually being sent to the master but still to the reverb. This can sometimes make it easier to pick out where the instrument really is in the context of the instruments. Also, you can send those instruments with a lot of space to a reverb as well, which sometimes works very well for blending, but I've found that typically keeping that reverb shorter is better and you don't need nearly as much. The acoustic guitar can be sent to the same reverb if you want or you can use a shorter & denser reverb to simulate a closer feeling to the instrument itself. Space is difficult and much like EQ & Compression there are a billion ways to deal with it. I just tried to explain a simple way of working with it. Now, the kick as I said just needs more oomph. Try bringing out the beater a bit. Think like 3-6KHz. See if that helps bring out the attack of the kick a bit more. If you have to don't be afraid to give it some compression to enhance the kick a bit. I know a lot of people think compression is inherently evil and will crush your dynamics; it won't if you use it appropriately. Also, if you don't like the results you're getting with a compressor try a little bit of distortion. That can sometimes work wonders and be very easy to setup. Just a bit more thorough of an explanation on my thoughts. But seriously I do like cover. Sounds really good to me, just needs some more attention to the mix is all. Nothing big except for the kick.

I despise SoundCloud's encoding in situations like this. Everything just gets mutilated by it. Anyway, I don't like the body the acoustic guitar, but the higher notes sound excellent. I just feel the main body of the acoustic guitar is a bit too prominent in the mix, and that by using an actual bass instrument for the low end would be more beneficial. The percussion from what I can hear is fine except for the kick which needs a bit more oomph. The tambourine could be turned down a notch or two though. Honestly, there are two things with the mix that I feel need a little more scrutiny. First, the percussion. It sounds on its own, but you've got certain instruments that are really distant and full of space & reverb and others that are very dry and upfront. This can work sometimes, but in this situation I feel it detracts from the whole listening experience. Second, the space of the track. I mentioned this briefly with the drums and when I step back and listen to the track as a whole I'm really left at odds here about what space each instrument is in. And that is the problem. This should sound more like one single coherent space rather than about 5 or 6 different spaces being pieced together. It just doesn't sound right. Other than that I have to say this is actually a very enjoyable listen overall in terms of arrangement. I've always liked the source tune. And this is a nice cover with just enough extra to make it interesting and a bit more personalized. The first half of the track is very true to the source. The second half has some interpretation going on, which I quite enjoyed. I think adding a simple bass instrument would go a long way to making it sound more whole as well. Really quite a good listen.