Cash
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Posts posted by Cash
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Unfortunately, that's not how it works either. There are always people that jump at the opportunity to play for free because they don't realize it's a shit deal and the venues won't be empty because of these people.
In that case, it's the musician's fault agreeing to play for free. Still, I would imagine at least some of the people who play free are doing it for fun. It's not a shit deal if you aren't looking to get paid. Not everyone is trying to make a living on music, some do it as a hobby. Though I generally don't support a venue's decision to not pay musicians (the Super Bowl obviously being an exception).
EDIT:
Do musicians get paid to play at MAGFest and other cons? If the answer is no, I don't have any problem with that.
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Although, I still can hardly understand how people in this thread still think we're upset because poor Bruno Mars won't be able to eat for a week because he didn't get his paycheck. That's not the problem at all.
I haven't read anything (maybe I missed it) to suggest people think you guys are upset because of Bruno Mars. From my perspective, pretty much everyone in this thread understands the concern from your side, and have been addressing those specific points.
I think Will and Pete pretty much nailed it here. A musician performing on stage is not promoting. He is working. He is doing his job that he's been training to do for God knows how long.As Meteo mentioned, the musicians perform for a fraction of the time they would perform in a standard show. It's a huge promotion opportunity with less work involved (or so I would imagine) than their day to day career. It's a big win for any artist performing at half time.
To try and rephrase my point - if the Super Bowl, who will give you the biggest exposure, won't pay the biggest artists, why should smaller venues pay for smaller artists? It creates a negative business modal that suggests our art isn't worth paying for... and we allow it.For smaller venues, live music attracts customers. If the venue pays artists too little or not at all, artists will no longer come to play at that venue. In turn causing the establishment to lose customers, something they don't want. It's in a venue's best interest to pay artists enough money so that artists want to play at the venue. Now, I'm not saying venues always provide fair compensation, but they certainly want to keep artists coming back.
What the Joker meant by his quote is irrelevant because I was using his quote to emphasis my own meaning. I probably should have been more clear about that, sorry. I believe OCR is exempt from the rule because of the copyright laws.
If the meaning of the quote is irrelevant, how can it be used to emphasize your own meaning? Doesn't that imply the Joker's meaning is relevant? It doesn't work to separate the original meaning of the quote and then apply to a specific point, not in my opinion anyway.
The broad statement "if you're good at something, never do it for free" applies to literally every activity that one could conceivably be good at, there can't be any exemptions. It says that not just arranging copyrighted music (like OCR) or original music, but literally anything that you could be good at, should never be done for free.
The quote doesn't really emphasize your point, so much as make it seem like you're saying things that you're good at should only be pursued if money is involved. That notion, to me, goes against the spirit of art in general. I know you weren't trying to give off that impression, but that's how it came across to me.
Sorry to make such a point about it, but I just wanted to explain myself better.
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But those late night shows aren't about the music either, and I bet the bands get paid
Certainly not always. Even if they are paid, bands certainly take part in promotion that is not paid. As well as promotion the band must pay for.
If you're working, you should be getting paid for it. If you're promoting your works, that's sort of a different issueAnd the Super Bowl falls under promotion, which is basically what people have been saying.
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Why are you comparing this to OCR? OCR takes copyrighted works and rearranges them. That is a big exception because the music belongs to someone else.
The quote from the Joker was "if you're good at something, never do it for free." By that logic, if you're good at making music, you should only make music if you get payed. On OCR, people who are good at making music are making said music for free. If we are going by the Joker's logic, why bother making music if you can't get paid? Why make music in you're free time if you never get compensated for it?
The fact that we arrange copyrighted works is irrelevant to Joker's point. His argument is that you should only do something that you're good at if you get paid. He's basically saying hobbies are a waste of time. If you're good at arranging music, don't do it in your free time just for fun, only do it if money is involved. I was objecting to Joker's viewpoint. In my opinion, that's a close minded and limiting view of the world and would make life boring.
Because the superbowl performance wasn't about music, it was about business and promotion.Exactly. A lot of people are looking at the half time show the wrong way, it's an incredible advertising opportunity. It would cost an unbelievable amount of money to reach that many people under ordinary circumstances. I fail to see how a promotion of music sets a bad precedent for music.
I gotta side with Will here. It's not the fact that Bruno Mars is probably doing fine without being compensated for his performance, it's the principle. The message they're sending is that art is worthless.Wait a minute, are you saying the only way to show that art has value is through money? Is OCR not all about the appreciation of video game music as an art form? With no money involved.
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We might need to just face facts - the days where you can follow your dreams of doing whatever art you want, get paid a king's ransom for it and have the whole world love you for it might be over.
When did those days exist? It has always been difficult to make it big in the music industry.
I'm really not trying to be a buzzkill here, I really just think this is nature's way of reminding us the true beauty of art is art itself, not how much you get paid for it.I completely agree with this.
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I don't doubt that Bruno probably got his share of exposure and indirect payment, but instincts are telling me he's got gaining as much as he should be from it.
Who's to say how much money he should be making?
To quote a great man -OCR is a community of talented people making music for FREE. Are you really suggesting OCR shouldn't exist because we don't get paid? I hope I just misinterpreted a joke...
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The problem is the principle here and the potential for setting precedent. It's entirely possibly (and likely) that venue owners will hear about it and think "Oh, that's how professionals run things. Cool, that saves me money AND helps out the artists! Win win!" when obviously, that couldn't be further from the truth.
Sure, but how many venues are actually doing this?
I don't have any experience related to playing at venues, but I can't imagine it would be in the venue's best interest to no longer pay musicians. I would think most artists would go play at others venues that would actually pay them. Live musicians attract customers, it doesn't make much sense in my mind for a venue owner to risk cutting of that attraction.
Besides, artists have been playing at Half Time for decades, and, to the best of my knowledge, no precedent has been set (correct me if I'm wrong).
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I mean, if all music shows paid artists exclusively in exposure, would this system still work? I dunno.
Probably not, but that isn't the case. I'm betting it will never be the case.
By the way, no need to apologize. Thinking is a good thing!
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If you're at a point in your career when you're playing at the Super Bowl, money is not the issue. The Half Time show is basically one huge advertisement for any artist lucky enough to play at the show. Compensation doesn't make sense to me considering these artists already have so much money, and will make even more thanks to the sales boost from playing at the show.
Also, not every live performance by musician involves compensation. Musicians do perform specifically for exposure, and some just do it for fun. Playing at the Half Time show is a combination of the two.
I believe that encouraging "exposure" as a reasonable payment for live performance is the best way to slowly but surely kill the profession of musician (performer).How will encouraging exposure as payment kill the music profession? Playing at Half Time without compensation has been going on for decades, yet the profession of music performers hasn't been killed. People will always be willing to pay to go see live performances of their favorite artists.
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Thanks for the feedback DiGi Valentine, theshaggyfreak, and therex!
Cash - Very fun, very bouncy, you have a nice little song here. Good stuff.
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it! It was fun to make.
Cash - Nice composition albeit is a bit on the sparse side. Some sounds pop out of the mix a bit too much and could use some taming.Thanks, I spent a lot of time on composition. I wanted to put in more layers, but ran out of time. I also heard those popping out sounds, again the time was a factor.
Cash - Soundscape is a tad empty. Drums can be brought out. Synths are getting a bit more complex than your older stuff, so nice work on the improvement. Ending is a tad odd.Yep, I agree that the soundscape isn't as full as it could have been. Time was my enemy this round. I'm glad you think my synth work is improving. That's validation that I'm getting better!
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Yeah, this was one of my favorites for this round. I dig those vocals, nice work!
I do have some production crits though. I feel like the vocals could be brought forward more, your voice sometimes sounds buried. The drums could use some more variety, I'm hearing mostly the same pattern throughout the track. The hats are too loud for my tastes, they get very distracting for me after a while.
The arrangement sounds like a winner to me, though I'm not very familiar with either source.
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I'll be there. The OCR panel has been great the past couple of years.
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Thanks for the feedback, Sir_NutS and Mirby!
I completely agree that my track wasn't cohesive enough. I wanted to start over with a better direction, but I didn't have enough time. I tried to make my track cohesive, unfortunately it just didn't fit as well as I had hoped. It was still fun to make!
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY to both of you!! I hope both of you have an awesome day!
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Alright, mine has been sent. Can't wait to hear all the entries!
By the way, I incorporated the Practice Race music from Marble Madness into my intro. Here's the source:
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The main thing i'm worried about in my remix is the sources not being recognizable enough. I'll definitely provide a detailed source breakdown when I sub it.
Yeah, I'm worried about that as well. Marble Garden is obvious, but I'm not sure people will recognize Marble. I (hopefully) changed it to the same key as Marble Garden, so I hope I didn't butcher it!
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no x.x i kinda... don't... feel like musicing
Come on man, you can do it! You got Butt Hill, channel some of those butt powers!
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My remix currently has about 30 seconds of a Marble Madness source in the intro, is that too much? What are the rules about incorporating non-competition sources?
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will there be bonus points if one of them throws in a source from Marble Madness?
If I have time, I'll try to fit in a cameo from Marble Madness!
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Congrats! If anyone isn't sure what Vig did on the album, his name is in the credits. It's awesome to see an OCR artist contribute to such a high profile album, let alone a song that won a Grammy!
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Also, I'm cursing my past self for pushing my limits and picking a difficult source.
You're future self will be thanking your past self for pushing your limits and taking the hard path! That's what compos are for!
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Hey Tera, I like the additions so far. I like the way the new synth modulates through that section. The buildup is sounding pretty good, I'm curious where you'll take it from here. Keep up the good work!
By the way, I also use FL Studio 11. I'll happy to answer any questions you might have! Timaeus most likely knows more about FL though, considering his music is better than mine.
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Hi Tera,
You're remixing Terra's theme and your name is also Tera, that's awesome! Anyway, onto the remix. I'm liking what I hear so far, you've made me curious to see where you go with this!
Just some productions comments. The choir (or are they strings?) in the intro sounds a little too fake for the mood. The delay effect you put on the piano is a bit much for my tastes, it sounds unnatural. I think the percussion is nice and epic though, well done on that. Also, when it's just the piano and percussion playing, the remix is sounding sparse. I'd recommend adding more layers, or have that section lead into another more intense section. That leads me to the arrangement.
I'm enjoying you're rendition of this mega-popular source. I'd say so far you've taken a unique approach, so that's good. My only other thought would be that the ending is building up to something, but never quite makes it. Perhaps you already have a plan, but I would love to see you expand the current ending into a more intense section. I'm hearing in my head what it could sound like, especially the percussion, and I'm excited. This has potential. I'm looking forward to what you come up with!
I checked out some of your other music (which is great by the way, especially your singing!) and I see that you play violin and sing. Maybe you could incorporate some violin or vocals into this remix. I'll be following you're progress on this, looking forward to more!
Happy Birthday, DaMonz and TheShaggyFreak!
in General Discussion
Posted
Happy birthday to both of you! I hope yesterday was a good one! (Yes, I know I'm a day late
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