MC Final Sigma

Here's the chart I'm working from: http://zeldawiki.org/Timeline_Abbreviations#Main_Games

I think we're getting sidetracked here. I will concede SS for the sake of argument, but it's still only one Zelda game that doesn't use this sexist trope. I see your SS and raise you TLoZ, AoL, ALttP, OoT, WW, OoA/OoS, MC, FSA, TP, PH, and to a lesser extent ST.

Bravo for SS. I can point to countless more examples where this is not the case - not to mention that SS exists in a context in which Zelda is an oldschool damsel. What would have been truly refreshing is to see her as consistently strong, which would have been a truly significant change for the series. This episode of Tropes vs. Women was about oldschool games, in many of which the only woman is the damsel. It will be interesting to see how the next episode addresses modern games with more characters in general. Also, you've yet to show why constant disempowerment of women is a "little thing." EDIT: Also no one said the whole games are sexist; they're only sexist insofar as they participate in the trope. I already addressed this in my last post (a part not directed at you).

The trope has nothing to do with how the game characters view the woman - it's all about how we, the players, view the woman. It is degrading to women because this trope intimates 1) that women are helpless, and 2) that women can only be saved by men. It doesn't matter if these women are beloved wives, sisters, grandmas, what have you - they're still pitiful wimps who can't escape their situation (although male characters always can). You're right that individual instances of the DiD trope are not necessarily sexist on their own, but what makes the DiD trope sexist is that it's a trope. It is legitimate for female characters to be rescued by male characters some of the time - say, half of the time - but when 90% of the time it's a man rescuing a woman, even the "weakest of minds" can see that trend (consciously or not, mind you). By continually reinforcing a narrative in which a woman is rendered indefinitely helpless and can only be saved by a man, it becomes sexist. Period. It doesn't matter why game developers use this trope, the trope is toxic in and of itself. To repeat, the trope suggests through constant repetition that women are ultimately weak, feeble, and helpless - even supposedly strong ones like Zelda. Only men can bail them out, but men can help themselves. It may be interesting for historical reasons to discuss why the trope was used or became popular, but it does not exonerate these games from the charge - the trope is fucking sexist. I fail to see how the literal dis-empowerment of women in hundreds of digital narratives is somehow "relatively harmless." What it's doing is amplifying sexist tropes in "real" life and preparing young boys and girls who do play these games to think in gendered ways. Or how do you think gender is learned - an instruction manual? Stories are a huge deal, especially when 90% of them agree that women are powerless and men are not.

What's sexist about the DID trope is not that it glorifies rape or whatever, it's that it insinuates that women are powerless objects who need men to save them. The video wasn't all that repetitive, either - to be sure, there was a unifying topic, but she develops it in different ways throughout. Also, I'd say anything that's been around for centuries and that we're still sticking into our stories today deserves more than a few 20-minute youtube videos about it.

I was using the general you. Anyway, what are some alternative reasons for disagreement? I think your evaluation sounds reasonable on the face of it, and in principle I agree that critics shouldn't be instantly branded. But in this case, we have a woman who is correct in diagnosing deeply entrenched sexism in videogames. Why so much hate? I can think of two reasons, which you mentioned. What else is there?

I'm being honest about ulterior motives. Otherwise, why would her getting (admittedly, very many) symbolic gestures of good will for a progressive cause arouse so much debate? Where's your outrage over how much actors, rappers, and athletes get paid? And instead of dealing in the abstract, let's talk about your concrete disagreements. I'm willing to bet that any serious disagreement stems from sexism. It's not a mark of shame to be sexist, but it is shameful to remain so once you've been educated.

Here's my two cents: there's a reason so many people want to harp on the amount of money she received from her kickstarter or how poor the production value is - her argument is rock-solid and convicting, and fanboys and closeted sexists are grasping at straws (straw men, in fact) to criticize her. If you feel you need to defend a game you love from slander, remember that you can enjoy a product while still maintaining moral scruples about its content; feminists do this all the time. I, for one, adore Mario and Zelda in much the same way Anita describes - I grew up with the series, but I recognize they have their issues. If you're an actual sexist, though, come out and admit it; we can have a much more fruitful discussion about how you justify gender inequality than we can about how much money it costs to make Internet videos. Also, I would argue that the perceived "frivolity" of video games, fairy tales, et al does not mean they get to be immune from critical moral analysis - in fact, just the opposite: these stories creep into your mind and normalize explicit sexism in the "real" world. If anything, these children's games should receive more scrutiny, not a free pass, because they're more likely to influence you unknowing. If I wrote a manifesto entitled "On Women and Their Wimpy Utter-Helplessness," I doubt it would convince you; you probably wouldn't even read it. But you're much more likely to take away sexist impressions subconsciously, especially if you have a blast while doing it. That's why it's important to point out these patriarchal structures in stories so that we can consciously reject them as the poison that they are.

Minish Cap is definitely not the most popular Zelda game, and a lot of its music is just remixes of old series music... but! This song is a real gem that I bet a lot of remixers could do a lot with. It's the theme for the Elemental Sanctuary, and it's just begging for more development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MBTsCsrAfo

Sick! I loved every second of this. Dope flow, fantastic beat, and a very clever concept - I really dig the dialogue and narrative elements. 10/10!

I am only capable of writing and performing lyrics, so I'll need a partner for the rest of the production.

This is gorgeous! Great job!

So I hear you need grandma songs. I am a rapper, and if it isn't clear to the forums by now, I will rap on anything people would like to have a rapper on. So here's my concept for Grandma's remix. What if it were like a parody of 2Pac's "Dear Mama" ( ) but plus one generation? It could discuss Link getting into childhood trouble like breaking pots, harassing pigs, or knocking down Sturgeon's shelves, but Grandma still raised him right and gave him soup and stuff. Now he's finally hit it big and is giving her his private cabana in gratitude.... I could probably cobble at least one such verse together on that subject. Anyone want to collaborate on that project?Alternatively, I could rap on another song if anyone needs it. Here are some samples of my work - poor audio quality, but I'm coming into better equipment soon; got a representative sample of different styles here: http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/take-some-time-off-sample http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/heros-rest-wip-sample-verse http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/sms-sample-verse-for-ocremix (wrote the lyrics, first rapper)

Well, I can't remix, but I am a rapper if anyone needs one. Good luck with this, I love the series and the title "Road Rage!" Here are some samples of my work (excuse the shitty audio quality, I will be coming into better equipment shortly). They're all in pretty different styles and voices to give you an idea of my range: http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/take-some-time-off-sample http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/sms-sample-verse-for-ocremix http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/heros-rest-wip-sample-verse (wrote all lyrics, am the first rapper)

Um, is it way too late to express interest in this? Just saw the thread today and I'm new, but this looks awesome! I am a rapper and can do nothing but rap, remix-wise, but if anyone needs a rapper... I am one! I'm down to rap on anything really, if you think rap would be a good direction to explore. My personal preferences, of course, align with franchises I'm more familiar with: Wario, Kirby, Mega Man, Donkey Kong, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and especially Zelda. I don't know how much work GuitahHeroe has done on it (I see no WIP is recorded, so I'm semi-hopeful), but I've got a Link's Awakening concept if you're interested. Will PM you! (I'm also familiar with Lemmings and Harvest Moon, though I'd have to think about concepts for those). Also, a bit of searching has revealed to me that the NES game M.C. Kids has a GameBoy version called McDonaldland released in Europe. I've got lyrics and everything for an M.C. Kids rap song, so by all means, hit me up if that interests you. M.C. Kids has a kickass OST, too, for being a game that advertises obesity, and it would add more obscurity/diversity to the track listing. Here are some samples of my work (excuse the shitty audio quality, I will be coming into better equipment shortly). They're all in pretty different styles and voices to give you an idea of my range: http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/take-some-time-off-sample http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/sms-sample-verse-for-ocremix (wrote all lyrics, am the first rapper)

Gotta admit, I prefer plain old "East vs. West." I also like the idea of having Japanese text on the JP art.

Yes I did! Anyway, what an incredible album already - I can hardly wait for the rest. I have been looping this all day; I particularly love tracks 4-9. Thank you Theophany for doing the best Zelda title justice with this amazing project. Happy holidays!

Welp, I went ahead and wrote and recorded a second verse for "Take Some Time Off," the Station Square remix (SA1). Excuse the sound quality on this, but now you all should have a very clear idea of how I would develop the track - cartoony and light-hearted (note that I could, however, change the voice if it's too grating; I personally think it's fun, though). So, uh, did I make the cut, coach? Give it to me straight! http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/tsto-verse-2-sample (Also, incidentally, this strikes me as unusually fast for a rap beat. I love it, but I'd hope its full dopeness could be preserved if it were slowed down slightly.)

So, I just really read this thread and listened to some of the WIPs, and I'm inspired to be a part of this. I'm a nobody on this site right now, but I'd love to take a crack at it all the same - in fact, Jordanius' Station Square instrumental is sick, I already have a verse written for it themed around his title, "take some time off." Will record it sometime and return soon. EDIT: Here it is - pretty unique for me, but I had fun with it. I tried to establish how overworked/stressed out the Sonic crew is, and then advised them to take some time off. If you like this direction, Mr. Jordanius, I'd be delighted to collab on this as well - crazy good instrumental. Also, is this going to be an album/mixtape, or are we just using this as a springboard for Sonic hip hop remixes? http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/take-some-time-off-sample

Well, I for one would love to shout "REMIX!" on the DK rap track, but that's my only idea for that concept so far. Good luck with this project!

So, my concept is a McDonald's-themed rap song for the NES side-scroller M.C. Kids, which was actually quite fun and had a nice soundtrack. Here's a link to the entire OST: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0JJryrhMXA I have a sample verse to pique interest; it's rather straightforward now but the style and delivery are liable to change. I haven't decided on an exact style yet, but I think chopped & screwed would be particularly fitting - just imagine a slow-moving, obese, gross & greasy feeling. The lyrics were fun to write, and I have many ideas for future verses - particularly concerning Big Mac's exploits among the fast food honeys, so maybe a weird & hopefully also gross fast food sex song is how this could develop. Standard hip hop is fine by me too, though - I'm open to your input! Here's the sample verse, with lyrics included in the link: http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/mc-kids-sample-verse-for I have no musical skills outside of rapping, so I need someone who wants to make an M.C. Kids instrumental and handle the production end. Let me know if that sounds like you!

Excuse me, I do mean the entire production.

EDIT: Got Damashi/Sir Jordanius brewing something up! Hello! I mentioned this is another thread, but I want to rap on a Super Mario Sunshine remix and am looking for a partner(s) to make a beat to facilitate that. Right now, my concept is called "Tutti Frutti" - it's just a (hopefully) charming, not serious kind of song rapped by one "Pianta Joe," a fruit vendor in Delfino Plaza, advertising his wares to Mario. I have uploaded an a capella sample verse for the song that hopefully captures the mood I'm going for. All lyrics, etc. are subject to change, of course, but maybe this will pique someone's interest. My apologies for the shitty recording quality - this is just a draft, but I can do better for the real thing. Here's the recording link: http://soundcloud.com/mc-final-sigma/sms-sample-verse-for-ocremix Lyrics are included below. Let me know if this appeals to you, or what you think!