zircon

Dude, relax. No one is discriminating. Did you read the thread or just skim the first few posts? There is no rule on OCR that says "no chiptunes", just that if you're going to do chiptunes you need to be very creative and make up for the limited capabilities in other ways. Your track is very creative. If you submitted a remix with a GREAT arrangement in this style, I would YES it. There are tons of mixes on the site with chiptune sounds, so we definitely have nothing against that instrument. The discussion is more about the PURE chiptune production style which uses chip instruments and nothing else.

I dunno, 2003 and 2005 had pretty different standards... The two Dr. Fruitcake mixes, eg. http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01108/ probably a better example.

Hey, if you have 30 seconds, take this survey about the music of LoL! http://t.co/6Qvn1hLL

That is what we already have. There are almost no 'hard' criteria at all actually, the only one I can think of is that the music has to be originally written for a game. Other than that, stuff like arrangement and production is evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and though we try to be objective about it, ultimately it is subjective. You can't quantify "good production", so we don't. Not sure what more we can do there. Ultimately you're just saying you disagree with the majority opinion on the panel, which is fine (and understandable, we disagree with each other frequently), but it's not a hard standards issue.

Don't know what kind of answers you're fishing for, but it really has nothing to do with money at all. We don't care what samples you're using. People have made very expensive samples sound bad and free samples sound great. All that matters is how the sum of everything sounds in the end.

You're saying the judges enjoy, and people enjoy it, so why don't we accept it. I'm saying that we generally don't make decisions based on those factors. Most people love covers, so why not post those too? Why do we require arrangement at all? People have made the exact same argument about that. It's more that we don't take ourselves so seriously that we think we are the ultimate authority on VGM and VGM covers/arrangements. There is not a lot of sense in doing the exact same thing as other sites when we have our own niche. According to Larry, in his 4 years of experience running the inbox, we've gotten exactly 1: espergirl 2A03. I'd imagine it didn't change after that. I'm saying we'd be redundant if we just became a site like YouTube or Soundcloud. You can already post ANY kind of music you want, covers, mashups, chiptunes, whatever, in so many other places.

The same exact thing could be said of covers, or mashups. Those aren't what the site is about. Defining what the site IS about is Dave's job, because it's his site. Well, one could argue that you don't need a site like OCR to get your music out there. Look at YouTube, Soundcloud, etc. There are WAY more ways to get your music out there, free of charge, to the same audience, so why do we need to change OCR and make it redundant with those other sites?

I only meant that we don't look at or consider ANY genres to be objectively good, or bad. That's one of the high-level principles of the panel. I've definitely passed remixes I didn't really enjoy stylistically, and rejected stuff I did enjoy. Ultimately it's the catch-22 of having human beings evaluate music. We can try to be as impartial as possible but some people will listen to a drumkit and say it sounds good, others will say it doesn't. Some people listen to chiptune production and say it's great, others (like GrayLightning) think it is needlessly lo-fi. At the end of the day it's up to Dave to shape the standards, so I think he can clarify his position (which ultimately becomes our position, as judges) better than anyone.

Getting into semantics here.. I didn't say "so far", I was talking about all possible cases. Yes, we haven't passed any pure chip things. But, and Dave could correct me if I'm wrong here, we certainly do not have any kind of hardline rule saying that we'll never pass them. It's possible, that's all I'm saying. It's not really a double standard, it boils down to subjective preference. Just because chiptunes are popular doesn't mean that the style of production is objectively 'good'. Some people (and judges) do subjectively feel that the production style is basic and abrasive, and that it's sort of an arbitrary restriction. People like you, halc, chthonic/ben briggs (etc) have shown that you can use heavy chiptune elements in a track without being 100% chiptune and those will get happily passed and enjoyed. Nope, not at all. True, but we don't base our policy on whether it will be popular or not. Almost nobody would mind if we posted cover mixes either, despite that being outside the scope of the site. Sam is friggin' amazing and probably one of the most talented remixers, composers and performers on the site. Or anywhere, really. But I don't think it is accurate to say that just because a pure chiptune from him didn't pass, that nothing will ever pass. That's a bold statement. Just to clarify things for EVERYONE: We don't have anything against chiptunes, just like how we have nothing against covers. Just because the site has guidelines and standards doesn't mean music that falls OUTSIDE those standards is 'bad', or that we don't like it. I've personally voted 'NO' on music I really liked. This isn't a failure of the system or the site. If you try to be everything for all people you get YouTube or Soundcloud or whatever. OCR is not meant to be the ultimate source for all video game music or VGM arrangements. Please try to keep this in mind and don't get angry about things in our standards, as they are not value judgements on your music.

Yeah, I did personally think that the arrangement for the track was enough to pass the bar. That was my own opinion. But as I said, this mix is where the standards got clarified, with Dave making it clear in the last post that this wasn't enough. An example of a mostly chip mix passing would be Dueling Consoles.

I'm saying that when people pick a genre or production style, we're not in the business of making exceptions based on self-imposed limitations. Like if you decided to do a solo voice remix (literally, just one voice, no layering) that is legitimate music, but we're not going to go easy on that because you limited yourself intentionally. Or if you decided to do a solo kazoo remix, or whatever else.

OK, let's clear some things up here. They've been well-established for years, and yea, they are treated like any other minimal ensemble. If you're going to intentionally limit yourself then we believe you need to make up for it proportionally with arrangement. We're not making an exception for chiptunes. GrayLightning made a compelling argument for this; paraphrased, he said "What if someone were to make a remix entirely using wind chimes? Would we make an exception because of the limitations the artist placed on himself? Or would we say that there is only one kind of very basic tone used, which severely limits the remix, and judge it accordingly?" We're not "against" chiptune production (see below). What does this have to do with consistency, and why would that be an argument in favor of us changing the standards? Gregorian chant hasn't changed in 700+ years, does that mean we should give Gregorian chant remixes special attention or make exceptions for them? It's a silly point. That's like saying "How can you celebrate vgm as an art form while not allowing people to submit covers?" We're not claiming to be the be-all end-all of video game music remixing. This is Dave's site. He believes, and many of us agree, that doing fleshed out arrangements with NEW material, variation, and varied production is more meaningful as tribute/homage than simple covers, or downgrading the original instrumentation to a set of just a few chiptune tones. That doesn't mean we don't like or enjoy chiptunes, it just means that in the majority of cases, a pure chiptune mix is not in line with the goals of the site (much like straight covers, or tracks that use extensive direct sampling, etc.) As with the rest of our standards, these things are highly subjective and we don't quantify them. Everything has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Even things like the famous "50% rule" (at least 50% of the remix should have an overt connection to the source material) is just something a few judges do, NOT something codified into the standards. Sure, but by that same reasoning it takes some interpretation to take an NES track and arrange it for guitar, bass and drums for a simple cover. Lastly I encourage EVERYONE to read the decision thread for Espergirl 2a03 which pretty much defined/clarified our standards: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4024&highlight=espergirl

Oh fine. Twist my arm, will you?! Eagle SF1 first pick by far. Retsu SF1 Sakura Alpha2 Ibuki SF3 Lee SF1

Met up with some of the Riot folks at GDC. Really nice people in every way. Morello was around, helping someone who had never played LoL before play their first game. I also got to chat with Veigar, one of the folks involved with competitive balance and making LoL an even better e-sport. It was a great conversation. He agreed that they want to get away from the current meta but they want to keep things organic, ie. they don't want to force the meta one way or the other. I told him about my team comp idea (2x AP bot, ranged AD mid/top, tanky AD jungler) and he was interested

Happy birthday Jill! <3 (And Harmony too! .... <3 ) Don't forget to check Jill's NEW, entirely redesigned website: http://www.JillianAversa.com/ !

Infected Mushroom. Start there.

Hard to make a judgment without seeing what the game is actually like, right? Also doesn't everyone complain about no originality (eg. all sequels/licensed properties)? Let's give it a chance. It's new.

Thanks guys! Just put up a few new audio demos on the page too, so definitely check those out.

X-post from VI/KVR Check out the Zeal reference in the YT video.

Sure. I would say mid and bot probably influence games the most, at least from my experience. A fed enemy top usually isn't that much of a problem, whereas a fed mid or bot can spell big trouble. I don't usually care about the enemy jungler. Can't remember the last time I got ganked in earlygame since wards counter just about every jungler.

Hahaha, so good. Also I'm now at about 1340 ELO, the highest I've been in awhile. Playing almost exclusively Graves, with some Ashe and Soraka mixed in. I've found that if you can really zone people out at bot and get high CS, it can significantly impact the game. Sometimes other lanes will feed but I'm 50-60 CS ahead of the enemy carry, usually with no deaths and a few kills/assists as well. I also always do the 3x Doran's/Wriggles build now. It's so safe and strong.

The role I like in HoN/DotA is the ganker. Junglers come kind of close to this in LoL, but even then, only some are considered "ganking junglers" and few champs in other lanes really focus on ganking. In HoN/DotA you have heroes that have very high mobility or stealth/blink mechanics that enable them to set up kills very easily. Think Skarner or Shaco, but more of those, and with more versatility with what lane they can be in.

Yea, IMO Graves is the best. That being said, he's not that high above 2nd + 3rd best, and I think some pros would disagree with me about that assessment anyway (others say Vayne, Kog, Trist are top 3). So he can't be that imbalanced. Plus you do see pros playing Ezreal, Corki and Miss Fortune, so they're all viable on some level. Also it's not really his numbers that are good, it's his kit. He has a scaling steroid, two long range AOE pokes and a short-range dash. You could reduce his numbers by 25% and I'd say he'd still be really strong. Too much synergy.

Yep, don't know what they are thinking. Thing is that their balance team (I guess Morello and co) is actually good. They do a great job of keeping a large chunk of the cast viable. Since I started playing I've seen both overpowered and underpowered champs get balanced out to about the right place. It's a shame that their actual champion design decisions are so unbelievably bland.

PRODUCTION [X] Low-quality samples - orchestra [X] Unrealistic sequencing (particularly acoustic instrumentation, e.g. notes use the same velocities, mechanical timing) - orchestra [X] Drums do not sound like part of the mix [X] Mixing is muddy (e.g. too many sounds in bass, middle or treble) - orchestra breakdown, some bass synths, wah filtered synth [X] Bell sounds are harsh (treble) WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE TRACK [X] Creative arrangement ideas [X] Good production quality [X] Instrument choices NO resub Fix muddy synths/sections (filtered wah), revisit orchestral sounds, any harsh leads