eternal Zero

Cass will out-dps you. Kass will burst you down on his tempo. Morde just laughs and wins. LeBlanc just walks up to you then bursts you. Ahri out pokes and wins when ults are up. You don't have the sustained mana regen to keep up with Heimer pressure. Ziggs has more range and more damage. Annie wins the same way. She has second longest range level 1 btw. You beat most decent Karthus. You lose to Kennen pretty handily. Talon, GP, and Riven win by default due to disables and damage and building a single armor item. There are no hills mid for poking and there isn't room to maneuver. Only mid ranged AD is Cait due to area denial but a single mistake will end you. It's a lot of work and risk for little to no gain. Also I know my post is mostly circumstantial and evidence based but if you like we could just run sets and test your idea. Cause of the 1v1 solo mid tourney I tested most if not every hero. Cait was the only one that showed promise.

Very few AD mids will win against the standard AP choices. And they are, for the most part, melee. Riven, Talon, Gankplank would be the only three I'd consider. You need to be able to go burst for burst and harass just as well as the AP to keep up. None of the ranged ADs can do that until they're level 6 at which point the lane is lost cause mots AP champions are going to be on you from level 2 onwards. Also I'm not going to weigh in too hard on the Sion talk cause it honestly boils down to skill determining character efficiency. Sion isn't worth shit when people are good enough.Both AD and AP version rely on being ignored to be good. AP Sion loses more than half his damage if you break his shield. AD Sion can't keep his team alive if he's CC'd then killed. Sion is a one trick pony. Ignore him and you lose. Also I like how you mention Gragas as a lategame threat cause he's really not any threat at all except for level 6 when he has his ult out of nowhere. Though that again boils down to your skill against his because those non-ult barrels are slow and have a small range.

So far my KA:D ratio with Nautilus in ranked over 3 games is 56:1. I am going to be so sad when he gets the treatment.

Nope. You don't build enough AP. Also you tend to burst all three non-ult actives at once so you don't actually get a lot of Lich procs.

Also I decided to spot check you because I didn't believe he could output that percentage of damage with your proposed AD build. I was right. In your Co-Op vs AI game: 31% AD In your other four 4 normal games: 29%, 25%, 33%, 30% AD. This is with a typical tank build and two AD items (Manamune and Trinity Force). And you barely average a third of your damage as AD. Also both those items, as mentioned, give you little to no bonuses to your tanking ability. And looking at just raw numbers and not percentages I output almost identical (if not more) amounts of physical damage with my burst AP tank build.

Well there's the issue. If you're building someone with AD-based items and you're doing barely more than half AD by game's end then the character's kit just isn't meant for it. It's like building Shyvanna as an AD. She'll still do almost all magic damage early game and then lategame when you finally get your items all your items you do enough AD to balance it out. He's a burst AP tank. He's not a part of the tanky dps archetype thank God. If you used the money you make to actually make his early/mid game damage better you'll do better overall instead of essentially wasting the time it takes to build a tear (doesn't need the mana, doesn't need the mana regen) to building a phage (doesn't need the slow cause he's got plenty, doesn't need the damage because his shield ability scales off AP) and phage barely gives you HP compared to what else you could be building. This also assumes you're taking too much farm away from your proper carries because you're not getting any gold items nor are you likely to win against a good top lane that's anywhere near aggressive because you don't have a catalyst. This is also why a Lichbane won't work. The only item that really helps is the Blasting Rod. The Sheen will add some damage but it will generally be insignificant because typical confrontations will involve you using all three of your non-ult actives in rapid succession giving you a single Sheen/Lich proc which won't do all that much because you don't have good AD growth nor are you amassing AP. Also CDR won't help really. His CDs are just too long and you'll just have to adjust your own play to deal with that. Lichbane is too expensive for not actually building AP. Abyssal gives a useful aura, is still defensively oriented, and gives good AP. RoA is the same way except it continues to grow and gives everything a tank wants plus some solid AP. He's a tank so build him like one. If the item isn't giving you significant bonuses to being tanky then you're trying to make him a character he's not and you might as well play someone else. I'm not saying he can't be built that way and I do understand the want to try and make a hero something their not because it's cool or novel or throws the enemy off but in the end there's a right way to do things and then there's the best way to do things. Also new Shen is pretty good. I still haven't seen one really do amazing things yet but I do like how with his changes his jungle is insane. Choice everything. Doesn't matter what you run as long as you get a pull on blue. He'll succeed. So it makes him a very malleable 5th member pick in draft and allows him to fit many more nuances in his tank role.

Play a game with Nautilus then check damage done. He's about 80% magic damage and his AP ratios are solid. He also does really low DPS but high burst. If you're building Warmogs/Atmas or AD at all you're doing it all wrong. He's a more offensive oriented Singed. Build him the same way and you'll do fine. Two gold items (Philo/HoG) into two dmg items (RoA and Abyssal) into FoN, Shurelya's, etc. I won a 4v5 yesterday because I could 1v5 the enemy team. I had 4k health and actually saw constant +25 green numbers flying because of my Force of Nature. He either jungles similarly to Sejuani or solo tops like Singed. And builds should reflect accordingly. My runes are just like Singed with Mpen reds, Mana/5 yellows, MR blues, and Movespeed quints. Masteries are identical to Singed: 0 21 9; but instead of getting mana regen in utility I just get even more movespeed cause Nautilus has no mana issues once you have a philo. I know Ziggs had major issues and weaknesses but Nautilus' aren't as clear cut. He's weak early and only shines in the lategame if you're super farmed AND super fed. I expect him to get nerfed unfortunately. He's not like the past few where Riot either held back too much (Viktor) or did it just right (Ziggs, Sejuani). Also here are the only games of Nautilus I played yesterday. The game highlighted is the one I already mentioned. All builds are nearly identical though the very first game I tried Rylai's over Abyssal which isn't good cause you don't cast often enough. And the game I lost other lanes were feeding really badly so I was going for a quick Frozen Heart to try and salvage it. Really good item on him but he's actually more of a burst character than a DPS character so you need your team to supplement a LOT of damage for you in team fights.

I might pop in and say hello but I'll be starting rotations in the wards at that point so I have no idea about free time. For places to stay look around Wacker and try the Club Quarters. They're pretty nice and reasonable last time I was there. As for something you guys should definitely do look into going to Galloping Ghost for a day. (I'll probably end up joining you all for this part of it if at all.)

Friend of mine joined a small little 1v1 tourney and the guy running it wanted a partner to shoutcast so I offered my services. Here's a recording of what happened today: http://www.twitch.tv/chrispydelivers/b/307478176 I think I'm decent but I didn't know the guy and there's a lot of downtime cause of the format so it was hard to fill the silence. Though it's a fun little idea. 1v1 only mid. 2 kill or 2 mid towers to win. Who are your top picks? I personally would rely on my Morde, Talon, Panth, or Cass.

Put all that on Maokai in his ult and that locket is going to do a lot of work. Also I like Victor a lot now. That buff to Gravity is what he needed. Granted the one game I did play with him tonight I fed like all hell but that's cause I was stuck solo top where he should never be.

Best worst advice I gave was in a game of DotA about a month after I started about 5.5 years ago. My entire floor of my dorms was playing over LAN and my roommate was on the other team and asked what he should buy as a Lina. I told him to get Divine Rapier. At this point I was a 10-0 Centaur. I waited outside of secret shop, killed him as he left, picked up the rapier then proceeded to triple my kill count. Best troll advice ever. Also this was back when Aegis of the Immortal had 3 stacks and was a shop item and could not be sold or dropped effectively removing an item slot. Yeah you think this era of LoL is crazy? You don't even know the shit I've seen people thought were okay.

That wasn't a ragequit the internet died on me. Also I wasn't being zero tolerance. You've been really sensitive for whatever reason when I play with you. The game just before I had the same affect and we lost all the same. Ask Bardic or Zircon. It's a loss and yes I pointed out things that could have gone better but not at any point was I anywhere near mad. Honestly think of the last time I outright yelled at someone. When I'm angry about DotA I rage and I rage hard. . For whatever reason you get very defeatist and negative and always think I'm blaming you. Chill out. It's just a game. I don't expect the best from anyone here cause nobody here is a professional. Though if you really want to jab at me for only playing OP carries I want you to think back to all the times I go trolling with mid Heimer or AD carry Sona mid and do the same as I normally do.

Thing is, she was for the longest time then nobody knew it while the entire community was demanding Evelynn buffs. That went on for about a year and a half (not sure of exact time but it was at least six months). Then for about three months she was awesome because people discovered new tech with her. Then she got nerfed but was still pretty good. Then she got nerfed again and now she's next to useless cause removing the stun from her invis was all she had going for her.

No I don't think Kitty actually reads posts or thinks before posting his/her-self Skarner got a buff after release. I don't think he's so ridiculous. Wukong got buffed and yes I agree he's ridiculous. Why do you think I play him so much? Riven got a small buff after release and was recently nerfed. Shyvanna was for all purposes unchanged. She's always been good just nobody played her. Voli wasn't directly nerfed but they nerfed Warmog's in his stead. He was actually indeed OP in the right hands. You can take my word on that one. As for Ziggs. I dunno. I think he'll get nerfed. Most people will try him once and then hate him because it does take a decent amount of skill and dexterity to hit all of his skill shots. His damage output is freaking nasty though. He's also got the best pokes in the game right now. The only reason I don't see a nerf coming is because they were very clear in their design for him in terms of weakness: no CC, long cooldowns, and all skill shots.

No I'm talking about the one after. Ziggs will end up being decent but probably lackluster due to generic 4 nuke kit. Or his skill shot will be so good that Riot makes it so it does no damage like with Viktor.

Okay. Yes, Bleck's style of argument is equally as bad. Do we know anything about the new champ other than Riot's alleged promise to make it interesting?

From people having differing opinions? On a forum in a conversation about potentially polarizing topics? Bleck doesn't want LoL to be anything like DotA. All of his comments follow this logic. Whether or not you agree with him doesn't change the fact that he's consistent. Again we talked about this with the whole UMVC3 comparison. LoL isn't there yet but he'd like it to be. In that vein of thought having multiple units under a single person's control is counterproductive to leaving the RTS space of last hitting and denying. I personally want this game to be a little closer to DotA so you see me wanting old mechanics and a more diverse hero and item pool. Apparently you and Tensei just want to argue and misconstrue our conversation. At least bring valid counterpoints in the broad sense rather than attacking specific aspects of them in order to devalue the validity of the logic behind them as a whole.

That's because I'm up at studying for a pathology quiz I have tomorrow and I'm using this as a place to interrupt the monotony. Notice the abundance of medical terms in my posts? I am, haha. Also partially cause I'm pulling from DotA in general which makes me inherently not creative. I think my favorite idea of yours is Kages Lucky Pick turning into an AoE silence.

Okay. One idea rejected. Whatever I won't argue it further. That's still another handful that are acceptable, non-insidious, and can't be any worse than items like Executioner's Calling or any better than Wriggles. But there is a way to design yourself out of that mess. Because by the current design Urgot is a bad top. So sure people will try and people will fail. And gimmicks are bound to happen. Even without good ways of dealing with stealth a 5x stealth team sucks. 5x revive fortify isn't good professionally but is still annoying to deal with and will beat many non-competitive teams. Do people complain about that? No not really. And again: a varied and diverse set of items and heroes will be able to deal with any kind of new addition given time. DotA has patches in the span of months and sure things come in and out of vogue but never has the game been unplayable. For those that played think of the days when Riki's backstab had to be changed so many times because it was way too good and then not good enough. LoL is patched every two weeks. And even then you get hotfixes for most truly gamebreaking bugs like Trundle healing to full off of Nocturne/Singed or Viktor having infinite gold at level 6 with Twisted Fate present on either team. You also get bugs that go under the radar but were devastating like the Urgot ranged bug. Yes even that one was streamed by your aforementioned pros but didn't get the abuse that ruined the game for the large majority of players. But since none of this matters cause Riot has no balls here's to more of the same shit Riot spews out! I hope the next tanky DPS is at least mounted cause those animations on Sejuani were pretty cool.

Again the argument of having multiple clairvoyances isn't a problem. Sure you -could- have upwards of 7 but will you? No. What this gives you is two smaller ones which will be equal to or lesser than the pre-nerf one. More malleable in terms of utility, more active, and it gives another item to buy if you want it. I see no harm here. If you wanted that much vision you can do it with the infinite amount of wards you can buy in this game. Randuins is a lesser version of Nunu's ult without the damage. Shurelya's is a more focused version of Janna passive. And more options is more itemization. Again you're playing at the "what if it doesn't work out" mindset. If the game has enough variation and enough diversity it won't matter if something new is introduced because there will be ways to work with it as well as against it. The problem is that LoL is in a stagnant state and no way other than just introducing things will you be able to confidently say "yeah our metagame can handle it". You can talk of changing the meta and being original all you like but you just have to do it. Tanky DPS in general are only one or the other by themselves. The other half comes from items. Reducing the time of games reduces the amount of items obtained in a single game which forces heroes down less nebulous roles or forces them to be less effective at both. Okay so maybe a stun is a bit much maybe it isn't. Point is: give the option of some form of cc. Let the game sort itself out. You're arguing details. Most mids already have the means to get ganks as do your junglers. Why not give bottom lane more to do? Alistar might deem the item unnecessary because he already has two disables. Soraka would love it though cause she has no way of holding an opponent still. This game has been continuously infused with derivative 4 nuke casters and 1 dash 1 shield 1 steroid 1 nuke 1 stun tanky DPS heroes. It needs a bolus of something new and fresh to mix things up. Could be any one of my suggestions. Could be any other. It just can't drive the game further and further into a 1-1-2-1 jungler NR20 tanky DPS meta. Edit: Also I notice you're speaking as if you think that every new addition has to be groundbreaking and powerful. I'm arguing for moderation and more utility. If you keep thinking every new thing is the next big thing then, yes, nothing will ever be good enough or weak enough for you.

An item with a mini clairvoyance will also allow you to run both and maintain more vision more often. It can be inferior but having an option that requires in game resources to use rather than having it be inherent like a summoner spell. Like how running Exhaust on Nasus is an awesome idea. Or how running a Quicksilver Sash with Cleanse on Kassadin is just mean. I'm talking about something akin to Randuins but is like a smaller but debuff oriented version of Taric ult. Think of it as a fourth option to Shurelya's vs Randuins vs Iron Locket. Speed up vs slow down vs buff vs debuff. More assassins with more tools will develop a less tanky game overall. A less passive first 20 minutes will give less time for tanks to build their tank items. More aggressive metagame = less viable tanks because games end faster. Every support still has an attack and a damaging spell. I'm talking about combining both items but making the passive benefits not so useful to a carry. Taric fires his stun. Duck into a bush to spend the stun duration hidden and safe? Not with Hexsweeper. Soraka AoE starfall. Doesn't really do damage but suddenly keeps vision for a while so you can keep tabs on the enemy team. Long as you don't make it better than the typical core items you won't see your ranged AD carries using it all too often. Also supports still have time to auto attack in fights and they should be even without an item like this. Janna has one disable. A shield. A slow. And a push/slow. I count 1 disable and 2 forms of CC. Taric has 1 stun. Soraka has 1 silence. Sona has a single AoE stun and a situational slow. Alistar has two disables. Zilean has 1 slow. The only champion who would have this be problematic with is maybe Alistar because he's the only support with more than 1 hard disable. Randuins is a small AoE around you. Meant for tanks. A Gunblade shot fires about 1.5x the distance and is single target. More aggressive ganking and as long as the item's numbers aren't high enough you're not going to break any of the current DPS archetype builds. Again. As long as it isn't better than an IE or Phantom Dancer Sivir probably won't want it. You assume my item ideas won't work because you're just taking the base ideas and applying them poorly. They're motivated but Riot is showing their lack of imagination (as are you). You cannot deny this. Also as we stated: LoL strives to become the Marvel of the DotA type games. We established it's clearly not there yet so until then DotA concepts still apply. Edit: I may start ranting incoherently but give me some focus and just try to come at me. Let's go.

Okay. I'll level with you. It's a step but more of a sidestep rather than a step forward. Give me something that gives mobile vision so I can run something else instead of the much weaker Clairvoyance. Give me an item that will do a little damage in an AoE that shreds Armor/MR but build order and stats make it more for supports. How about something like Medallion of Courage that lowers your armor as well as a target's armor for ganking purposes? How about you change Lightbringer and Hextech sweeper into a single item that is more support oriented so ganking into bushes won't be so bad? Give me something that can see invisible that isn't as immobile as a Sentry Ward or as risky as an Oracle. How about a support item that gives the Hextech Gunblade active? So they can have a little more CC? Or go a step further and give them an item that can actually disable the opponent? Nope. Let's give things that progress the tanky DPS metagame to a fault. They had so many options and this is just me ranting and not actually thinking about original, cool and interesting things to do. Riot is further proving how narrow minded they are.

Two things: 1) Author I don't think you get it. Anything helping tanky DPS cannot be a blessing at this point. 2) That locket is a pretty fantastic item and here is why: A 210 damage shield determines a fight more often than not: That's 210 damage that isn't helping spell vamp or lifesteal. That's 210 damage that they're regenerating or healing through which is a big deal on most if not all tanky dps due to FoN or guys like Singed/Voli/Mundo/Morde. The times you barely get out of fights alive are going to come more often. You'll be able to handle an extra tower shot. The times that you barely have enough damage to burst down that one hero that's been giving you trouble all game? That'll happen less often and then they'll have the means to stay in the fight a lot longer than they should have otherwise. You do a lot more damage in DotA in general. Pipe blocks 400 magical damage. It's super useful and seen on most every team that's up against any casters. 210 of any damage arguably has more utility because it'll work for more situations. You will see a lot of this item. Oh and did I mention it also has its own stats and a passive aura to boost? Yeah. It's solid.

So now there's no way to itemize for ASPD and lifesteal? As if it was bad enough that on most heroes where you want a Stark's you do so little physical damage because you're using items like Wit's End or Malady you barely got any life back. Now they're just screwed even further? Also don't forget that Stark's had an armor reducing aura that's now gone from the entire item pool entirely. GEE THANKS RIOT I NEEDED ANOTHER FEW REASONS TO BUILD NOTHING BUT TANKY.

That's what they said about Viktor. His kit is interesting but his numbers hold him back. They're too afraid of new things. Even if the next hero after generic yordle caster has a cool kit unless they're support it's not going to be any good.