Sam Ascher-Weiss

Personally I'm with you guys....

I got your meaning from the original post. I was just being pointlessly anal. It's one of my more charming character flaws?

Preschtale makes use of... among other things, Quantum Leap Colossus. While I agree it is an INSANELY brilliant album, I'd hardly use the words "hardware limitations" when describing it.

I know what you're saying. Every time I listen to I'm always like... where are the break-beats and wobble bass!Chamber music... more like LAMEber music. I'm so sick of orchestra, listening to orchestra makes me want MOREchestra. Swan Lake sounds so lame without Flanger and Filter sweeps.

Thank you for taking the time to do that, I really appreciate it and it gives me a better understanding on how a judge might respond to a wide variety of chip styles.

I agree with you whole heartedly, which is why my original post claimed it would take at least 70 years for things to be at the point where chiptunes would be allowed in their most basic raw form. The reason I continue to press the point, is not so much impatience as, I feel discouraged by the standards as they are, despite my initial enthusiasm. I realize, in order for things to change, there are always double standards that are reasonable.. e.g. white rappers can't get away with being mediocre and make it, without exceptional circumstances. Not necessarily the best example, but I get it. For a chiptune arrangement to be taken seriously, it will have to go above and beyond the call of duty. I will try my best to answer this call, though it will probably be a year or two before I really feel up to it as other things take priority at the moment. I'd like to say though, this impatience you speak of.. that fire.. that passion, without it I don't think change would come. It always comes at a snail like pace, I accept that, but if we were to strive for that specifically... if all movements took the stance of, lets just be patient and wait for change to happen on its own, then even 200 years wouldn't make a difference. So I personally don't see this impatience or "playing the victim" as you call it, something to look down upon. And I guess some of us hope, that a site like this, might try to be ahead of the curve by as much as possible. Please don't mistake this for a sense of entitlement.

Okay I'm starting to get a little confused. When you say production style.. it seems that the term is being applied a bit broadly. If we're talking strictly production, expecting a piece of orchestral music to be normalized on the same level as an electronic submission would be pretty ridiculous. Any non live instrument song with this kind of production, lack of clarity etc. or like Danimal said earlier.. expecting a harsichord arrangement to have a huge dynamic range. Beyond that though, pure chiptunes are far more than simply a 'production style'. They are an entire aesthetic unto themselves. You say "but you can have jazz chiptunes... or rock chiptunes", you could have a string quartet play a jazz standard as well, does that make it simply a production style? I point this out because, asking chiptune artists to do things like add reverb/panning or HQ electronic sounds as a requirement, would be like demanding all orchestral arrangements make use of filter effects and flanger/phasing and other types of processing used in straight electronic arrangements.

Okay this is starting wear on me a bit, the more posts I see like Dave's etc. the more I realize this situation is still not acceptable. For one I'd like to more clearly understand exactly what meets the bar: Here are some examples of chipmusic, all of these take the purist approach, and all but three were written for actual hardware, I'll specify which three: (not for actual hardware) (not for actual hardware) (not for actual hardware)I purposely picked a more technically minimal Virt track, as I'm curious if it would meet the bar. Bit Shifter Hally Naruto Zan Zan Zawa Veia Tony Thai Shnabubula These are all very different styles, from a technical perspective, though I know they were all crafted with a ton of attention to detail and they all have what myself and many others consider to be a distinct and beautiful aesthetic. If I were to write a chiptune, in an attempt to meet the current vague and nearly unreachable standard, most likely it would sound like it was trying too hard to prove that it was REAL MUSIC, rather than being allowed to explore the full spectrum of the purist chip-tune aesthetic. Something that as I pointed out in an earlier post, unlike other "lofi" methods of production... like recording windows default general midi sounds, or a live recording using terrible mics and mixing, or any other supposed slippery slope candidates, chip music has a ridiculously huge following ESPECIALLY among gamers. I appreciate Djp's example about jumping off a bridge.. something being popular doesn't make it good, straight covers are also popular....but they go against the basic mission of this site. Chiptunes do not in my opinion because they are a distinctly MODERN form of music making. The fact that people are CHOOSING to work within a set of limitations, this is a revolutionary and important aspect of purist chip music and part of why it holds such a fascination for so many, a large portion of whom don't even have the nostalgic attachment to these sounds as they're too young to have grown up with the consoles that they originated on. Anyway, it would help clarify the standards to me, even though I think all above styles should be completely acceptable if the arrangment aspects were to meet the bar, if I knew which of them would actually stand a chance.

I still stand by my first post. In 70 or so years, chiptunes of all kinds, including many NES soundtracks from the 80s, will be held as a form of almost folk music. There is something beautiful and elegant about the sound of a chiptune with limited use of 'tricks' etc.. these tricks are wonderful and a fun and important aspect of chiptune composition, but they shouldn't be considered a necessity in the sense that only the most technical of chiptunes, are considered worthy. I realize for the time being this is probably too much of a concession to demand, so I don't expect it, but I understand what danimal means about 2nd class citizen. There are some relatively juvenile piano remixes that have been posted, from a technical and compositional [pianistically speaking] perspective. But for a chiptune song to pass, it has to be in the top top top 99.999999% percent of the genre. Anyway, I know that this will not change, and I don't expect it to anytime soon. BUT I stand by the fact that it should, and will...when the times change and chiptunes are regarded with the respect they deserve on a universal level.

For the record, I feel I've learned a lot about chiptunes and chiptune technique to the point where I'd be slightly embarrassed if that song were ever posted... however, I'd love to give it another shot with perhaps a VRC6 arrangement using far greater detail and variety of sound than I was capable of with espergirl

Fair enough...however, If chiptune artists were composing using the NESDEV tools, then I'd agree with the "traditional limitations" rule. But considering Famitracker created nsfs can exceed the 32kb limit and the "traditional limitations" [this is not just about song length but the level of detail and complexity as well adds to the filesize] not to mention the amount of fine tuned control we're given that the NESDEV tools did not possess by any accessible means. and as far as gameboy chiptunes, LSDJ is so far beyond the available devtools for the old gameboy that it's pretty ridiculous. Just the use of the wavetable channel alone.

So by what criteria could one pass the panel? And for the record, while general midi is certainly a popular format, and there are websites devoted to it, you don't have: general midi artists touring the world (Jeremiah Johnson, Joshua Davis etc.), being featured on late night with Late Night Carson Daily, Wired, Time [to name a few] Holding international festivals, one of which was covered by MTV here in the sates having more than 2 MILLION scrobbles combined amongst just THREE musicians.... reaching number one on bandcamp in sales with a FREE ALBUM maybe it's time to stop using the "it's the same as .mid" justification.

Interestingly enough Doug.. we kind of spent several pages explaining why chiptune doesn't actually LIMIT production values by any objective measuring stick. They are just as complex in many ways from a production perspective as recording a solo instrument. From timbral shifts combined with all kinds of volume macros, echo techniques a miriad of arpeggiation methods that create entirely new timbres, not to mention how these things are used in conjunction across multiple channels to create unique sounds through combinations etc... I could go on at length.. people have, entire message boards with thousands of users are devoted to nothing other than aspects of chiptunes which have NOTHING to do with composition.

because chiptune technique as it stands today, a field that is still constantly being innovated and revolutionized, is clearly not modern while, using virtual analog synths and 808s based on completely outdated hardware, common place in synth based remixes, clearly is. What if somebody submitted a remix in the style of a 70s rock song...or worse yet, something classical. Modern all the way! EDIT: I apologize for my tone, and I realize that it's not quite that simple, however I don't think this issue can, or should, be so easily dismissed.

Okay, the difficulty I have with this is, if rejecting chiptunes is based on a 'subjective' preference, because of what 'some people' feel, then there's a lot of material which could be rejected with the same 'subjective' reasoning (some people find orchestral music boring etc.). You're saying that chiptune production is not 'objecitvely' good, does this mean it IS objectively bad? if it is, then why reject them on a 'subjective' basis... you see why this gets confusing? So speaking subjectively, people in this community and the overclocked remix listening audience I would say are more predisposed to appreciate the chiptune genre then almost any other scene out there... and as far as being 'basic and abrasive', again.. speaking subjectively, there are plenty of 'acceptable' genres that fall into that category.

My one issue with the argument I'm constantly hearing repeated... to paraphrase "what if he made a remix in the style of Zimbabwe Uyulating, it's a legitimate genre that consists of nothing but recordings of frogs being skinned alive... etc. I've heard this being used with wind chimes persay, as an example, or yogic rock banging. This argument falls apart for me a bit because, if the judges heard a remix in one of these genres, and they actually liked it, I don't think they'd reject it solely BECAUSE of its limitations, they'd only reject it if they felt the limitations kept if from being, for lack of a better description, good music... there's the double standard.

I heard about some soundtrack coming out that uses 20 NES channels or something like that, maybe that would suffice?....can't remember who wrote it. Some dude with a funny name. Google it

in 70 years or so, when chiptunes are regarded as a medium on the same level as other relatively minimal forms such as a string quartet.... if OCR is still around then, they will accept chiptunes. So given the current length of the queue you might as well submit one now

I'll let you all guess who this guy sounds like.... hint: reverse his initials.

Album will be released on march 15th, at http://www.ubiktune.org following a listening party at http://www.areciboradio.com. Details here: http://www.facebook.com/events/261447153934695/ Also, one more preview video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfANc4lyrWg

One of the greatest musical experiences of my life was listening to this album. I invite you to enjoy the ride! FX4 is a concept album set in the oceans and skies. Its story immediately precedes that of FX3. Unlike the previous albums, which were written as "soundalikes" using sampled chip sounds, FX4 consists of machine code that can run on a real NES system. It was written in Famitracker, available for free at famitracker.com. The album is free, and I am not expecting or asking for payment, although I appreciate donations — the proceeds will go toward software I need for my one-man indie game project. virt. http://ubiktune.org/releases/ubi041-virt-fx4

So amazing!!!

Awesome! Really Cool!

When he defeated his game genie in battle, Tommy was rewarded with an item of immeasurable value. Where the genie had been only a moment before, there now sat a new cartridge for his nintendo entertainment system, his parents helped him hook it up. He took this enchanted cartridge and put it into his system. A single message flashed on his screen. PREPARE TO JAM. Not sure what to do, tommy went to his older brother's keyboard and placed his fingers on the keys.....they suddenly started to move and they began playing the themes from his favorite games. And then the magic happened, his nintendo, powered by his new mystical cartridge, started to play along with him. Tommy turned on his tape recorder and the two of them, boy and console, jammed for 40 minutes straight. 20 years later, this recording, now digitally remastered, is available to the public for the first time. Underwater (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) (2:51) Temple (Zelda 2) (3:16) Alien Lair (Contra) (3:07) Night Sea (Little Nemo the Dream Master) (3:46) Dwelling of Doom (Castlevania 2) (3:17) Kung Fu Alley (NES Original) (4:42) Title (Double Dragon) (3:34) Gemini Man (Megaman 3) (3:58) Stage 1 (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2) (2:59) Area A (Shatterhand) (3:26) Wood Man (Megaman 2) (3:37) Artwork: Katie Kinkel Piano and Famitracker: Samuel Ascher-Weiss Composition: Tracks 1 and 9: Keizou Nakamura Track 2: Akito Nakatsuka Track 3: Hidenori Maezawa, Kyouhei Sada Track 4: Junko Tamiya Track 5: Kenishi Matsubara, Satoe Terashima Track 6: Samuel Ascher-Weiss Track 7: Kazunaka Yamane Track 8: Yasuaki Fujita (BUNBUN) Track 10: Iku Mizutani, Koichi Yamanishi Track 11: Manami Matsumae, Yoshihiro Sakaguchi, Ogeretsu Kun © All rights reserved. http://ubiktune.org/releases/ubi043-shnabubula-nes-jams

this is really cool