Equivalents?

[Patrick Burns]

So I'm in the market for a new laptop for school, music, games, etc.

• MacBook Pro

OS X 10.5

15 in screen

2.4 Ghz duo

160 GBs hard drive

4 GBs RAM

NVidia card w/ 256MB SDRAM

$3,200

• Dell Vostro 1500

Windows XP

15.4 in screen

2.4 Ghz duo

120 GBs hard drive

4 GBs RAM

NVidia card w/ 256MB SDRAM

$1,700

So I've been using an iMac with Logic Express 7 since 2004. I learned everything I know about DAWs on it, and it's all I know. For obvious reasons, though, I'm thinking about heading back to the PC world. Trouble is, now I'm a complete noob again. I know very little about those PC titles I've seen talked about on these forums for years.

EDIT: to narrow the scope of my question, what software title/combination in the $500 range would you suggest as roughly equivalent to the music production in Logic Studio?

EDIT: my situation is now resolved - info on page 4

[zircon]

Not a lot, really. Logic is almost unbeatable, value-wise, in terms of the sheer number and quality of sounds, synths, and effects it comes with. Your best bet is to simply find a sequencer that you like the workflow of... eg. Sonar, Live, Cubase, FLStudio... and then from there get a number of additional plugins to fill in the gaps.

[Yoozer]

So I've been using an iMac with Logic Express 7 since 2004. I learned everything I know about DAWs on it, and it's all I know.

Then continue with the platform you've invested nearly 4 years in. Switching will be painful and frustrating, especially if you know and use a lot of shortcuts.

EDIT: to narrow the scope of my question, what software title/combination in the $500 range would you suggest as roughly equivalent to the music production in Logic Studio?

There's nothing like it.

[analoq]

1. Apple makes very nice portables -- I would rather have a low-end Macbook than a high-end Dell.

2. You're a student. You can get a student discount from Apple.

3. Apple's portables maintain their value longer. You'll make up some of that cost when it comes time to upgrade.

4. If you really want to play games you can install XP on it.

5. Repeating what yoozer/zircon said about Logic, there's not an exact equivilent.

I like Ableton Live very very much and it costs about the same as Logic, but it doesn't come with much out of the box; all the cool synths are pricey add-ons. Cubase/Sonar I haven't seen in years, no opinion.

[zircon]

I'm not sure I agree 100% with some of those points, analoq... I got my laptop about the same time Jill picked up a Powerbook G4. Both ~$2k range (mine being a Dell.) Hers needed a full keybed replacement, I needed a battery replacement, and so forth and so on. She ended up replacing hers with a new Macbook, actually, while I'm still using my Dell. Sure I've had my problems, but she had her fair share also.

So I guess what I'm saying is, in my observation, paying over $1k for a Mac over a PC, on general 'quality' alone, is not really justified. But if it's the platform for his favorite sequencer, that is a compelling reason.

If you're gonna go PC at all, go with avadirect.com, by the way - they make killer custom machines at lower prices than Dell, with less bloatware.

[Moseph]

If you decide to get a PC but expect to switch back to a Mac at some point in the future, you might want to stay away from Sonar, as it's Windows only.

Also, if you do get a laptop from Dell, Gateway, etc., consider reinstalling Windows first thing. It clears out all that pre-installed garbage zircon mentioned and leaves you with a nice shiny new OS (you do have to reinstall all your drivers, which is a pain, but I think it's worth it).

EDIT: From my limited experience with Logic, its workflow and general layout seem a little unusual compared to most other DAWs I've used. Be prepared to do some relearning if you switch.

[analoq]

You're right Zircon, I'm not trying to go fanboy on anyone -- Apple's portables are very nice but I'm not suggesting any Dell you get will be a crapshot. I can say, however, that Apple has been very good to me when things went wrong.

I bought a 24" cinema display and after a week it just stopped working. I went to my local Apple store without an appointment and they promptly confirmed it was defective and gave me a new one. If I had bought a brandless display from a random online store I would've been without a display for a while.

Of course if you're nowhere near an Apple store then you may not be much better off.

[tgfoo]

Also, one more thing, if you do stick with the Mac, do not buy your ram from apple. Apple charges you 700 bucks for an upgrade to 4 gigs, while you can buy that ram and install it yourself (it takes 5 mintues...) for around 200 bucks. With that extra money you're saving you can easy pick up Logic Studio.

[Moseph]

Also, one more thing, if you do stick with the Mac, do not buy your ram from apple. Apple charges you 700 bucks for an upgrade to 4 gigs, while you can buy that ram and install it yourself (it takes 5 mintues...) for around 200 bucks. With that extra money you're saving you can easy pick up Logic Studio.

QFE. In fact, don't buy RAM from any computer manufacturer, PC companies such as Dell included. They all charge waaaaay too much for it.

[Patrick Burns]

So it appears that, with a student discount and 3rd party RAM, I could get the above Mac system with Logic for around $3000. If I custom built with avadirect, it would end up around $2100, assuming I spent about $800 on music software.

That's getting closer...

Thanks, guys. That's definitely more to think about.

[The Pezman]

I want to get a new laptop for after college (I'm a junior now), and I'm open to the possibility of a Mac, but I'm still waiting on things like Hi-Def media support, integrated WiMax on the CPU, DirectX10 compliant video cards & 500 GB of storage. I'd be willing to compromise on two of those four.

[Kanthos]

Storage space is probably the easiest to deal with. I've got ~250 GB on my laptop (bought last April) and a 250 GB external drive, where I keep audio samples and such. I don't notice any performance issues for the majority of things I do, although I wouldn't use my external drive for live performance.

[The Pezman]

Storage space is probably the easiest to deal with. I've got ~250 GB on my laptop (bought last April) and a 250 GB external drive, where I keep audio samples and such. I don't notice any performance issues for the majority of things I do, although I wouldn't use my external drive for live performance.

You don't quite understand. I have a 750 GB external. Right now finding a place to store everything I want is not an issue. However, as you said, external hard drives have their limiting factors, and right now my internal is a mere 100 GB (pretty good for 2005) and I'll want to future proof my machines as much as I can. According to my Comp Architecture teacher (who actually works to manufacture Hard Drive heads), 1 TB is the highest they can achieve with the current means of data storage. With that in mind, I imagine they should be able to put half that into a laptop for a reasonable price.

[SnappleMan]

Most of what's being said here is good advice, if this were 1998. No offense guys, but haven't you noticed that all the big players are borrowing from one another? Sonar, Logic, Cubase and Protools are all so similar that switching is only a matter of spending a couple days with it to learn where the icons are placed. Keyboard shortcut argument is a valid one, but again, you can set up your own shortcuts in most of these.

Personally, if switching to PC, I'd take a serious look at Sonar. I use Cubase and love it, but Sonar is the best DAW you can currently get for a PC. Unlike Cubase and Protools, it's built in and specifically for Windows, not built to support Windows. It's the tightest and most solid of all modern Windows DAWs. The VST support is still not 100% right, but unless you get used to the way a few of them (DFHS in particular) operate natively in Cubase, it wont make a difference to you. The complete integration into Windows will make up for that.

Versions 5 and up have been completely reworked, so if you used Sonar 1-4 and didn't like it, this is different. It's almost exactly like Cubase in functionality (even the transport bar...). But if you want something that's cross platform and works very well, try Cubase.

[zircon]

That's a good point overall Snapple, but Logic 8 is pretty unique value-wise. Yeah, some of the sequencing/recording features might have a lot of overlap, but it comes with so much awesome stuff (Sculpture, EXS24, Space Designer, Delay Designer, all the jam packs) that there's no comparable PC package. And believe me I don't like admitting this since I'm forced to use Logic at school and I'm a PC guy.

[The Pezman]

And believe me I don't like admitting this since I'm forced to use Logic at school and I'm a PC guy.

QFT. I've had to eat a lot of words I've said over the years.

[tgfoo]

So it appears that, with a student discount and 3rd party RAM, I could get the above Mac system with Logic for around $3000. If I custom built with avadirect, it would end up around $2100, assuming I spent about $800 on music software.

That's getting closer...

Thanks, guys. That's definitely more to think about.

To be honest, I don't think you can match Logic Studio for $800 when you consider all of Logic's plug-ins and sounds. Plus you also get Soundtrack Pro 2 and WaveBurner included in that price.

Also, as some others have mentioned, there are some other non-monetary things to consider. Do you really want to switch sequencers? Also, after using OSX for so long, do you feel like moving over to Windows?

[zircon]

$800 can get you some sick stuff. eg...

* Quantum Leap Colossus ($400) - 32gb of samples

* ArtsAcoustic Reverb ($180-190)

* Zebra 2 Synth ($200) - all around modular synth

Or..

* IK Multimedia Total Studio Bundle - ~$830 (more like $600 w/ upgrade discount, which is easy to get): has Sonik Synth 2 and Sampletank 2 XL all-around workstation sample bundled, Philharmonik for orchestral sounds, Amplitube 2 for guitar/general FX, T-Racks mastering suite, and CSR reverbs.

[tgfoo]

Yes, but he'd still need a sequencer to go with that as well. You can get a lot of good stuff for $800, but I still don't think you can match the Logic Studio package for that amount.

[Patrick Burns]

I guess the underlying question for all of this is how much money is an object to me.

The money for all of this is coming out of my college fund. This spring is my first semester, but I'm only taking 10 hrs. Next fall is when my freshman year really gets started at a different school (at least, that's the plan). However, it will be a couple of months before I know how much that is going to cost.

Considering how much college could potentially cost, I wouldn't blink at paying a few hundred dollars more for my favorite OS with the DAW I'm used to. But if I'm going to be breaking the bank (my dad's bank, actually) for college money and it's going to be a two thousand dollar difference to go the Mac way, then I'm starting to think that maybe a change-up in the work flow might be a healthy choice.

I really would like to have a laptop when this semester starts, but I think it would be best to wait until I have a clearer picture of how far my college fund needs to stretch. (Although, again, $3000 is spare change compared to what college might cost... but considering I get to keep what is left over from the fund, I don't want to get my financial life started by throwing that much money at something w/o a second thought.)

Because the price difference isn't as dramatic as I initially thought, I'm leaning towards Mac again, but I'll wait. Besides, since I've grown up on Logic Express, a change in work flow might really do me some good. Thanks again for all the good points. I'm continuing to weigh my options.

[Cree`]

1. Apple makes very nice portables -- I would rather have a low-end Macbook than a high-end Dell.

2. You're a student. You can get a student discount from Apple.

3. Apple's portables maintain their value longer. You'll make up some of that cost when it comes time to upgrade.

4. If you really want to play games you can install XP on it.

5. Repeating what yoozer/zircon said about Logic, there's not an exact equivilent.

I like Ableton Live very very much and it costs about the same as Logic, but it doesn't come with much out of the box; all the cool synths are pricey add-ons. Cubase/Sonar I haven't seen in years, no opinion.

1. Thats Your opinion.

2. The discounts are "alright" but you can still get a much better deal on a regular laptop.

3. All of the Cost that was made up will be null by the fact that Apple laptops are 2x more expensive than regularly manufactured PC's, and the reality that your Apple paperweight has the same cost/value ratio as a regular PC.

4. If you really want to satiate your apple-chops you can install mac os x onto your Windows compatible PC.

5. I have no idea whats going on.

[Fishy]

That's a good point overall Snapple, but Logic 8 is pretty unique value-wise. Yeah, some of the sequencing/recording features might have a lot of overlap, but it comes with so much awesome stuff (Sculpture, EXS24, Space Designer, Delay Designer, all the jam packs) that there's no comparable PC package. And believe me I don't like admitting this since I'm forced to use Logic at school and I'm a PC guy.

I agree. I was blown away by how much stuff comes with Logic Studio for the price. In essence it is, as snapple says, another DAW, but its the additions that seperate it for me.

Also, if you do any live recording, the multi-take comping is just the best thing ever invented. Normal DAWs can technically do the same thing, but it would take you 20 minutes instead of one mouse click and drag.

[Cree`]

To the OP:

I'm going to link you up with two web-forums that you can continually check over the course of a month, and you'll find a really good deal. It's basically a

community of people who continually post whenever they find a price mistake or error. Trust me, its worthwhile to invest some time into checking these sites out. The past few months me and my bro have gotten a 42" and a 50" inch plasma tv for $300 bucks each, and an $800 dollar laptop for about 300 after tax. The other day I also got a 2 gig Kingston thumbdrive for 99 cents.

www.Slickdeals.net

and

www.Fatwallet.com

[Yoozer]

5. I have no idea whats going on.

4 years of experience in Logic = priceless

No Logic on a PC laptop = worthless

See?

[analoq]

1. Thats Your opinion.

That's a fucking brilliant deduction! Who's else's opinion would it be?

The OP uses Logic Express on an iMac... maybe he would want to hear the opinion of someone like me who's used Logic Express on an iMac? Maybe he would want to hear the opinion of someone like me who's given a lot of reliable advice to remixers over the years?

What weight does your opinion carry?

3. All of the Cost that was made up will be null by the fact that Apple laptops are 2x more expensive than regularly manufactured PC's, and the reality that your Apple paperweight has the same cost/value ratio as a regular PC.

If my Apple "paperweight" has the same cost/value ratio as a regular PC and my "paperweight" cost more, then by your logic it has more value. Do you even understand what you just said? Because I seem to agree with you!

5. I have no idea whats going on.

Yet you felt embolded enough to participate in this discussion even when it was obvious you hadn't a clue what the OP's decision anchors on. With such thoughtful behaviors like that, it's clear you're going to earn a lot of respect around here!