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[Native Dialect]

Song archived

Edited June 17, 2021 by Native Dialect

[OverCoat]

A few problems:

-the square synth is offbeat

it's kind of dizzying to listen to now, as the rhythm of the synth is different for each new measure. It sounds like you played the part live very sloppy and didn't quantize afterwards. try to have it keep the same rhythm so the listener can get into a nice groove.

-the sitar is not in tune with the rest of the song, like at 0:33

Not sure how to fix this, I think it might be your sitar sample?

-the drumloops [at least I think they are loops], while groovy at first, don't really change much.

I recommend chopping up the drums and making more interesting fills and variations on the beat. If you keep the drums interesting, given the style, the listener will probably overlook the repetitive nature of the rest of the instrumentation

-there's some general mixing issues I have with this - the sitar should probably pack a bit more punch [as if sitars had punch, lol], but I think you could stereo pan the sitar and bring up the volume a bit more to make the song sound more full

[Native Dialect]

You left conflicting remarks.

"it's kind of dizzying to listen to now, as the rhythm of the synth is different for each new measure"

But then you say...

"given the style, the listener will probably overlook the repetitive nature of the rest of the instrumentation"

I realize you are providing honest and helpful advice. You obviously have the position to do so as you are a listed ReMixer. But I can not both be too diverse in rhythm and at the same time have repetitive instrumentation. I almost took your comment to heart about the drums though. I went back and listened to the original China Vox and concluded that that song used the same drum beat the entire time save for a stutter of the drum pattern for a breakdown. Otherwise, the only variation came in moments where there are no drums. I at least used two seperate sets of drum rhythms. So I don't know where to go to improve that.

As for the Sitar, it won't really get more on track than that. If it were a Pipa it would have a much more familar sound like a Western Guitar, but a Sitar has a natural reverb-esque sound when it is played (I left it unmodified when I sequenced it), so I'm assuming that it won't fit Western time signatures unless I based everything else around that instrument rather than using the instrument despite everything else. I could choose another instrument, but I feel that this mix is synth heavy enough.

As for quantizing, I attempted that after your remark and it literally did not alter the sequencing of the notes. To me that means that as far as Reason is concerned, I played everything in time with 4/4 and 95bpm. I kid you not. Quantizing had no effect.

Now the one area I find to be free of debate is the actual rhythm of my synth that replicates the melody of Chun-Li's Third Strike theme. I could keep it the same everytime you hear it, but wouldn't that lend to the repetitive nature you speak of? Given that I kept the mix short (the original China Vox is very repetitive, but in light of being a tune for a Fighting game, I don't expect variation), I had to do something to keep it busy and different. But you feel that it is too busy. But I feel that leaving the rhythm the same will ultimately make the song boring. Do you have any other feasible proposals that would aid this song? Any additional comments would be appreciated.

[DarkeSword]

Post an MP3 or something. It's not hard to find hosting; I recommend pownce.com.

Your sitar is out of tune; there are a lot of intonation problems. Don't write that off as being part of the natural sitar sound, because it's not. A sitar can be played in tune. It's also too quiet/low-pitched. Take it up an octave or bring the volume up; it's getting lost in the mix.

The lead playing the SF3 theme is really weak and suffers from some timing issues. It has no bite, no punch, no presence. The melody is also different from the original. It's a six note melody; it shouldn't be hard to replicate. For the sake of example, let's say we're in A minor: you've written the melody as "A C D C A C" when it's actually "A C D G A B." You've gotta come down lower than the root in the second three notes. That's what characterizes the melody.

As for drums, they are repetitive. You can't go back and listen to the original and say "well that didn't do much, so I'm not really gonna do much either." You're not making the original, you're making a remix for OCR, so change it up some more (and don't say I'm being inconsistent here with my remarks from the previous paragraph; melodic interpretation and percussive variation are apples and oranges).

[OverCoat]

Those aren't conflicting remarks.

I went on to say that the rhythm of the synth is just plain OFF, and needed to be quantized or something, and as for the DRUMS, if you varied them a lot more, then people would overlook the other parts of the song, aka the square wave and the sitar, which need their own improvements [that I already listed], but structurally are mostly fine.

[Therapsid]

Post an MP3 or something. It's not hard to find hosting; I recommend pownce.com.

Tindeck is even better

[Rozovian]

To me, this sounds like a beat with some source added to it. Repetitive, monotonous, and ultimately boring once you've heard it for a few loops. Needs a lot more variation.

You could vary the track overall, it could be enough. You're essentially stacking sections in succession rather than blending them together. That means that we're hearing the same thing over and over again, possibly with some minor variation. Transitions, alternative versions, solos, breaks... Just do something other than stacking stuff.

Not only does your lead suffer from not being prominent as Darke already pointed out, all the drive in the track comes from the beats. If you'd mute the bass and beats, you should hear how boring the lead really is. Try that, see what you can do about it. And while you're at it, work on the writing too. It's repetitive. Lead writing and sitar writing. The sitar sounds awful. I know I detuned a sitar in a previous wip of mine, but not this far. Go with the recommendation of _not_ detuning it.

I'm repeating myself as well as the previous posters, so I'm gonna stop now. The bass and drums sound good, the rest decent (aside from tuning). Fix the sitar and lead. Work on your writing. This could be awesome.

[Native Dialect]

1)If it has a "beat" feel to it, that is because I usually create hip hop beats. So I tend to create any song with a very similar structure in mind. But I assure you that I sequenced everything other than the drums.

2)I don't have any particular interest in a synth line with "punch." I really wanted this to be a mellow mix so that it fully embodies the idea of Chun-Li's grace and not just her fighting skills. That is why I chose not to make this a fighting arrangement (a song that sounds as if the character would actually have this as their stage music). It is more of a song that uses elements of her existing themes, but for the purposes of a different mood.

3)The Sitar actually isn't out of tune. I am unsure of what the rest of you use, but I personally use Reason 3.0. In it, there is an instrument called Mumbai (named after the city formerly known as Bombay, in India). When the notes are played individually, they sound off in a "cleaner" fashion. However when ever played as an arpeggio, it creates that twang sound beteween transitions, that leads it to sound "off." I unfortunately can't control this even when I adjust the decay and bend levels of the instrument.

It is just the nature of the instrument in Reason. I am not sure how many of you listen to Indian/Punjabi music, but it usually features time signatures that are foreign to typical western expectations. It also embodies differing rhythms (sort of like how jazz was impossible in Western music until African rhythms were introduced to European people). I believe the instrument has the twang in Reason, to mimic this difference. Unfortunately, it was my only option for an Asian string instrument. I was searching for a Pipa (Chinese lute) but could only come across this Sitar (Indian lute). Anyways here is a video example that highlights what i'm trying to explain. The differing time signature, the twang in the arpeggios, the droning sound. None of it relates to being out of tune. It's just the nature of Sitars.

With that being said, i'll reconsider my instrument choice since it is difficult for me to get the instrument to work in Common Time. I'll attempt a Piano or another synth, if I feel it offers enough variation from the main synth. Thank you for listening and commenting.

[DarkeSword]

Time signatures have nothing to do with intonation. I think you're using the term incorrectly. They also have nothing to do with any of the criticism in this mix because I'm pretty sure this mix is in 4/4 time. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

As for the lead lacking "punch," it's not a philosophical criticism about what it represents in relation to Chunli or your conceptual approach; the lead sucks because it has very little presence or definition. Weak attack, thin sound, etc. It gets lost in the soundscape. I'm talking about it on a technical level.

And yes, I listen to a lot of Indian music; my parents are Indian and my dad has quite a collection. Regardless of how Reason's synth behaves by default, the sitar in this mix is out of tune, because you haven't taken the rest of the song into any kind of ragga mode. Your mix is in a traditional Western minor key and the scooping and pitch bends (i.e the "twang") don't work because the notes don't always lock in and settle diatonically, even though the melody you're playingis a regular old minor key melody. I highly doubt you're intentionally delving into rearranging the melody with semi-tones and quarter-tones.

[Native Dialect]

That is essentially what I was attempting to get at.

"Your mix is in a traditional Western minor key and the scooping and pitch bends (i.e the "twang") don't work because the notes don't always lock in and settle diatonically, even though the melody you're playingis a regular old minor key melody"

Your musical eloquence is obviously of a prodigious stature compared to my own. I am very much creating this theme with Western musical ideas in mind, and on that thought, I did not make a wise decision for my instrument choice. Yes I did create this mix in Common Time, which does not lend itself to the Sitar.

And your other comment...

"the lead sucks because it has very little presence or definition. Weak attack, thin sound, etc. It gets lost in the soundscape. I'm talking about it on a technical level."

Purely your musical opinion. Though based around technical musical concepts, it is still an idea rooted in your own tastes of what should drive the track, rather than any definable certainty. I can accept that you or others may not like it, but I had the same criticism of my choice of synths in my Ibuki remix. It didn't stop it from gaining some popularity on these forums and on Youtube. I'll change the Sitar, but i'm not changing my lead synth. If you want to put in more "punch" i'll gladly send you the Reason file and you can choose your own synth. But otherwise, i'll just say that we will have to disagree. I am fond of this synth choice, and you are not. There is no right or wrong, as it is purely a matter of your opinion versus my own. That isn't a battle to be fought or won.

[DarkeSword]

Purely your musical opinion. Though based around technical musical concepts, it is still an idea rooted in your own tastes of what should drive the track, rather than any definable certainty. I can accept that you or others may not like it, but I had the same criticism of my choice of synths in my Ibuki remix. It didn't stop it from gaining some popularity on these forums and on Youtube. I'll change the Sitar, but i'm not changing my lead synth. If you want to put in more "punch" i'll gladly send you the Reason file and you can choose your own synth. But otherwise, i'll just say that we will have to disagree. I am fond of this synth choice, and you are not. There is no right or wrong, as it is purely a matter of your opinion versus my own. That isn't a battle to be fought or won.

I use FLStudio, for the record. And nobody said anything about a battle either.

My point is that you don't have to sacrifice your laid-back approach by changing the lead. You can have a lead that is gentle and soft but still have presence. This lead is playing the melody mid/low-range, so it bleeds together with your bassline and pads. It's very middle-heavy sound that comes off as weak, partly due to some of the quicker fading releases in the sequencing. You can try bringing the lead up an octave, adding some portamento or some quick modulation to give it a little flavor. Make it interesting. It's not interesting. It doesn't have to be harsh, distorted, or loud, but it's the lead; it needs to be interesting.

[Native Dialect]

Hmmm...interesting. That is a dangerous word around these parts haha. Just like "variation." I'll see what other synths I have that may be more "lively" if you will. But i'm not sure i'll find anything that will suit my current needs. I have recently obtained some refills, but not many. I could place some reverb on it to provide it some presence. I'll see what I come up with...

[Tensei]

You're approaching the idea of a synth lead the wrong way if you think you can't come up with anything good because of a lack of samples and refills. A synth lead should not be sampled, it should be synthesized! (as the name might suggest )

I've used Reason for quite a long time and I can tell you that you can achieve GREAT results with only the subtractor, let alone if you dig deeper into the crazy routing possibilities and make a multilayered Sub+Maelstrom hybrid. With the new Thor synth the only real limitation to the sounds you can achieve with Reason is your own skill in sound design.

You should take a listen to some of Po's stuff, specifically this remix, which as far as I can tell uses a very similar lead to what you're trying to achieve.

That said, I don't know what the issue is with the sitar patch, as far as I can tell it has been programmed pretty much in perfectly western intervals. (I've used it myself at some point, had no issues with it being out of tune at all)

Either way, I have to say that despite the production issues this is a very nice and soothing arrangement, so there's definitely potential here.

[DarkeSword]

Hmmm...interesting. That is a dangerous word around these parts haha. Just like "variation." I'll see what other synths I have that may be more "lively" if you will. But i'm not sure i'll find anything that will suit my current needs. I have recently obtained some refills, but not many. I could place some reverb on it to provide it some presence. I'll see what I come up with...

Great. I want you to understand that I'm not trying to tear you down. The world needs more 3rd Strike mixes; it's one of my favorite games and favorite soundtracks.

[Native Dialect]

I was able to finally modify the Sitar to sound like a Pipa. I was very absent minded of the fact that it is a Combinator patch (it combines synthesizers and effects patches, into one instrument), so I was able to modify the settings of the

Combinators personal rack. So we now have a much more harmonious sound to accompany the rest of the soothing mix. I still could not find a lead synth that felt right to me. So I will see what I can do about tweaking it with effects. And on a side note

1)I'm very well aware of Po because of their excellent Breath of Fire Watermelon track.

2)I don't have Reason 4.0, so I do not have Thor

3)Thank you for the compliment about the mix. I'm doing my best.

[Tensei]

Whether you have Thor or not doesn't really matter here, I just said it to illustrate you can make a complex multilayered synth patch in Reason, which you don't need. You should be able to make a perfectly fine synth lead for this track with only the subtractor.

[Native Dialect]

Well now I have a reason why I don't change synths. I never said much about it, but it reminded me of the lead from Chun Li's Street Fighter II theme. To keep with that, I actually remixed my own track. You can hear it here...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZnO7P2nIArc

Or if you prefer you can still go to http://www.myspace.com/thenativedialect and listen to it uncompressed. It is the second track on the list. I'll tell you now that the new mix includes a modified Sitar (sounds more like a Pipa). If you want to hear the new stuff, just skip to 2:10. That is where I switch things up...