Nonprofit Game Remakes (Or, Why ports are terrible.)

[Bleck]

So I'll just sum this up briefly. According to Bahamut's logic, if a band of nerds were allowed to make a free 3d remake of Chrono Trigger, Square Enix (and every other company) would never make a new game (or anything) again.

How does remaking a fifteen year old game, for free, harm the company's business.

Especially if they go on to make, I don't know, a third Chrono game instead of (or even as well as) porting it to the DS.

[Thalzon]

If you are outshined by a group of 20 people making a better version of your property for free when you want to release a slightly-improved port for $40, the better, free version might just put a kink in your sales.

[Bleck]

They should then be putting effort towards making a brand new $60 dollar game. Even if there is no fan remake, ports will always be hindered by emulation. I can't really emulate a PS3 game - I'd be faced with either buying it or waiting ten years to have a computer good enough to emulate it.

[Poke'G]

If the upstart group gets a better following, no one will care about SquareEnix's official sequel and hope for the Nonprofit guys to try their hands at their own sequel.

It's not likely but that's one train of thought that has to be going through SE's mind to pull such a move.

[Bleck]

If the upstart group gets a better following' date=' no one will care about SquareEnix's official sequel and hope for the Nonprofit guys to try their hands at their own sequel.

It's not likely but that's one train of thought that has to be going through SE's mind to pull such a move.[/quote']

Square Enix owns the right to the games. Why not let the remake come to pass and let the wave of attention shift to a sequel of their own design, whilst quenching any idea of sequel the nonprofit dudes make? Then everyone is happy, except maybe the nonprofit dudes - but they got too greedy for their own damn good.

[Poke'G]

Since we're discussing nonprofit fanmade games, does anyone remember what happened with that project wherein Ocarina of Time was being redone into classic Link to the Past style gameplay.

I remember seeing screens early on that looked promising, but I haven't heard of anything in a long time. Did Nintendo pull a Square and shut the project down?

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

The issue at hand is through a tangled mess that is Copyright protection and Intellectual Property Rights. If a group of people successfully created a port of Chrono Trigger, or a spin off or a sequel or even a preview or any manner using the Chrono Trigger characters then there is the potential to damage the name brand. If any of the games or any other derivative mediums were to be of substandard quality then any future work involving the original copyright holder could be in danger. This could be caused by people who are now weary of anything with the Chrono Trigger brand despite the derivatives being from another company. There is great chance that many people will not recognize that Square Enix was not involved with the spin off games.

Copyright laws are in place to protect the person(s) who created such a thing. It's in place so no such plagiarism or unauthorized work occurs, or at least kept to a minimum due to the punishments involved. We can all cry foul and be pissed off about it until we turn blue but that is the nature of the game. In some regards it is not fair but the laws are meant to be fair to copyright holder, not everyone else.

[Thalzon]

They should then be putting effort towards making a brand new $60 dollar game. Even if there is no fan remake, ports will always be hindered by emulation. I can't really emulate a PS3 game - I'd be faced with either buying it or waiting ten years to have a computer good enough to emulate it.

Except a brand new $60 game, especially one done by Squeenix, would cost millions and take years to develop. The port is that much cheaper to produce, because they're 1)working with an existing product, and 2) making minimal changes, meaning a smaller team is required to do the whole job.

[Vivi22]

The issue at hand is through a tangled mess that is Copyright protection and Intellectual Property Rights. If a group of people successfully created a port of Chrono Trigger, or a spin off or a sequel or even a preview or any manner using the Chrono Trigger characters then there is the potential to damage the name brand. If any of the games or any other derivative mediums were to be of substandard quality then any future work involving the original copyright holder could be in danger. This could be caused by people who are now weary of anything with the Chrono Trigger brand despite the derivatives being from another company. There is great chance that many people will not recognize that Square Enix was not involved with the spin off games.

Copyright laws are in place to protect the person(s) who created such a thing. It's in place so no such plagiarism or unauthorized work occurs, or at least kept to a minimum due to the punishments involved. We can all cry foul and be pissed off about it until we turn blue but that is the nature of the game. In some regards it is not fair but the laws are meant to be fair to copyright holder, not everyone else.

What this guy said. The topic creator is also missing the fact that a Chrono port can get people just as psyched about a sequel, and that since modern game development is extremely expensive, a port of a fan favourite game done with relatively few resources is a great way to make some more money quickly to help fund new projects.

[Bleck]

Except a brand new $60 game, especially one done by Squeenix, would cost millions

what

There is great chance that many people will not recognize that Square Enix was not involved with the spin off games.

If it's made quite clear on the nonprofit entries that the copyright is courtesy of Square Enix, people should be able to figure it out.

[Poke'G]

what

He's got an excellent point. Don't tell me you actually think full priced titles like the latest Final Fantasies are made on the cheap?

[Kanthos]

what

Ever sat through the credits of a Square-Enix RPG? They typically have a large programming team, larger QA team, translators, designers, producer and director, musicians/composers. They often hire a pop singer to do vocals on a track, and maybe even write it, which means both a base salary plus royalties. Then there's the team of artists and modellers for in-game art, other artists and modellers for CGI movies.

Say there's a team of 20 people with annual salaries of $50,000 (probably high for QA, low for programmers and other team members). If the team of 20 people with an average salary of $50k/yr works on the game for only one year, that's a cost of a million right there. Teams are larger, salaries are higher, and the development process is more than a year for any game that isn't thrown together quickly (i.e. not written by EA).

[Salluz]

I know, I know... I only regarded the first post (although I did read a bit from Kanthos).

Square Enix owns the right to the games. Why not let the remake come to pass and let the wave of attention shift to a sequel of their own design, whilst quenching any idea of sequel the nonprofit dudes make? Then everyone is happy, except maybe the nonprofit dudes - but they got too greedy for their own damn good.

Yah, that may be so, but it ain'tchos (isn't yours).

In that case, you would just have to accept that the people who originated the project have rights to it and do not want anyone else remodeling it commercially. To remodel it isn't solely for the purpose of being artistic or creative (if that's the case, make your own), but to get a fanbase. Morality becomes irrelevant in one sense (whether it would be okay), but yet in another sense, is becomes relevant because it's not morally correct to take someone's creation and do whatever with it that isn't permitted.

Point: If they say you can't, you can't. Forget the possibilities and all of that crap. As plain as vanilla ice cream, YOU CAN'T. Edit: You could try to strike up a deal and get some permission.

[Poke'G]

In that case, you would just have to accept that the people who originated the project have rights to it and do not want anyone else remodeling it commercially. To remodel it isn't solely for the purpose of being artistic or creative (if that's the case, make your own), but to get a fanbase. Morality becomes irrelevant in one sense (whether it would be okay), but yet in another sense, is becomes relevant because it's not morally correct to take someone's creation and do whatever with it that isn't permitted.

But the Nonprofit in the thread title implies this isn't being done commercially. The rookies are making no money off of their effort, save from donations which is within bounds for nonprofit efforts.

Nonprofit makes the entire mess very tricky and a legalese nightmare.

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

But the Nonprofit in the thread title implies this isn't being done commercially. The rookies are making no money off of their effort' date=' save from donations which is within bounds for nonprofit efforts.

Nonprofit makes the entire mess very tricky and a legalese nightmare.[/quote']

It doesn't matter if they're not making any money. As I said earlier, if someone creates a derivative piece of an established brand without making money off of it and without permission, there is still the possibility of it diluting the franchise. People may view in a less favorable light.

Plus the argument can be made that even though the non profit people make no money, the original copyright holders could potentially lose money by the fact that what the fans created isn't making money for the copyright holders. Sure they could ask permission and all they can say is no. But as it stands, that is how copyright law works.

[Vivi22]

But the Nonprofit in the thread title implies this isn't being done commercially. The rookies are making no money off of their effort' date=' save from donations which is within bounds for nonprofit efforts.

Nonprofit makes the entire mess very tricky and a legalese nightmare.[/quote']

There's nothing tricky about the situation. Square owns the Chrono Brand, therefore they can do whatever they want with it.

And even if the group is doing the remake for free you can't necessarily say they wouldn't gain something from it. Assuming the remake was of any respectable quality, they'd have a great resume piece to help break into the industry.

[Poke'G]

There's nothing tricky about the situation.

I made that statement taking from my experience with copyright issues over public screenings. In dealing with anime distribution companies, the gist of what they relayed to me is that if you're a nonprofit org and you're not charging at all, they don't care cause there's not much they can do. You can do fund raising or request donations, but the screening is still considered free until some type of funding becomes a requirement for viewing. Then they can step in with paperwork.

I don't see how a small group of people making a free game on their own free time is different from that scenario. If anything, they're more in the right because they've made their "product" from scratch, save for plot and Toriyama's conceptual designs. The code, the 3D models, the cinematics, and such were all theirs.

[Kanthos]

But it's not from scratch, since there's an idea involved. You're not just taking inspiration from character art, scenery art, or music; you're using their plot in a remake or adding to their intellectual property in a spinoff.

[Salluz]

But the Nonprofit in the thread title implies this isn't being done commercially. The rookies are making no money off of their effort' date=' save from donations which is within bounds for nonprofit efforts.

Nonprofit makes the entire mess very tricky and a legalese nightmare.[/quote']

I forgot to name the logical fallacy: the particular one that that involves straying the point. The only way for the situation to be infallible is to get agreement from the originator, even if you aren't trying to infringe the rights or make money.

[Nohbody]

Since we're discussing nonprofit fanmade games' date=' does anyone remember what happened with that project wherein Ocarina of Time was being redone into classic Link to the Past style gameplay.

I remember seeing screens early on that looked promising, but I haven't heard of anything in a long time. Did Nintendo pull a Square and shut the project down?[/quote']

Haha...no. It got off the ground and then dissapeared from the face of the earth. One of the guys involved with the project faked his own death or actually died or something, hard to get facts straight and oot2d.com stopped existing and shit just fizzled. They, or he (Daniel Barras) just wasnt enough to finish a project that big.

Theres actually a funny story related to this. Read this thread.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16346

If something like this were to happen, you would need a large team of reliable people who wont ditch, snitch, or otherwise die.

EDIT: Ok, daniel barras isnt dead, as I found out by reading the second to last post in my own goddam thread. Guess he just got lazy. And he has an account on OCR. Interesting.

[Flare4War]

There's nothing tricky about the situation. Square owns the Chrono Brand, therefore they can do whatever they want with it.

And even if the group is doing the remake for free you can't necessarily say they wouldn't gain something from it. Assuming the remake was of any respectable quality, they'd have a great resume piece to help break into the industry.

I've been waiting for someone to say this.

It basically sums it up. They fucked around with copyright stuff. Everyone knows how possessive corporations are, it's not a secret and it's not rocket science. You think Weird Al does mockeries of other peoples songs without permission from the record labels? Granted they weren't trying to make a joke of Crono Trigger but they still don't have permission for something that was as high scale as Crono Trigger was/is.

Chances are if they are actually smart enough to do a remake or sequel to Crono Trigger they were entirely cognizant of what they were infringing upon.

[atmuh]

bahas logic on this kinda stuff always gives me a good rofl