Need help with recommendations of various gear to purchase

[Bahamut]

So I'm looking finally make a serious attempt at making music. I noticed the stickied thread at the top so hopefully people can make me recommendations that can be purchased over zzounds.com to support OCR as well.

I'd like to buy a keyboard for use as a midi controller, as well as a mic & mic stand. Of course of lesser importance, but also necessary would be a stand for the keyboard. I also noticed Dave talking about a mic pop filter in the aforementioned thread - would that also be a good thing for me to purchase as well?

Keep in mind that I know very little of these things.

[Lunahorum]

Do you already have a DAW to make the music in?

[Bahamut]

Do you already have a DAW to make the music in?

What's that?

[Lunahorum]

Like Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Ableton Live, FL studio, Reason, Reaper, etc.

edit: they provide a place to make the music. Sort of like a virtual 8 track player on steroids.

[Bahamut]

Ah, I haven't decided which one I want to go with yet.

FL would be a good place to start I assume?

Edit: Also I forgot to mention that currently I'm on Vista 64-bit - will this be a problem when it comes to anything and is it worth it for me to change to XP for a particular reason?

[Tensei]

FL is a great way to start yeah. I'm pretty sure it'll run in Vista too, given it's regular updates etc. though you can't be too sure so it might be worth looking up.

For keyboards, I always recommend the M-audio Axiom. They come with differing amounts of semi-weighted keys (I believe the most expensive one has 61 keys and costs around 300-350$), velocity sensitive drum pads, pitch and mod wheel, USB connection, and loads of other useful stuff to get you started out. Best thing is, they're not expensive at all, as the cheapest 25-key one is just over $200 (here in Europe).

Mic & Mic Stand.. there's only one question needed here; Do you plan on recording instruments beside vocals? If yes, get the Shure SM57, which is pretty much the most universally used and recognized instrument+ vocal dynamic mic. If you want a dedicated vocal microphone go with the Shure SM58.

Keep in mind that for both of these you'll need something like an audio interface or a pre-amp that connects to your pc and has an XLR-input.

The easier way out might be buying a USB-mic (don't know which one is good but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in one of the microphone-threads), which you would only need to plug in to get decent recording quality.

[Vivi22]

I'll second the Axiom keyboard suggestion. I have the Axiom 25 as more of a dedicated midi controller (I have a Yamaha with a full length keyboard for actual piano playing so I didn't really need the extra keys) and it has served me very well. I'll also second the SM57 as a great instrument mic and vocal mic if you need something to do both. I only have one at the moment, but I've not heard a mic that captured the sound of my snares and toms any better and more accurately than it does.

As for a DAW, FL might be good but I don't think it supports 64-bit operating systems. It'll run in Vista-64 as far as I know but I don't think it will take advantage of it. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong there though. The only Windows DAW I can think of that does have 64-bit support is Sonar and it's what I use and like very much. I actually like it more than I liked FL Studio when I tried the demo just because of how the workflow is. Definitely try demos before you buy anything though.

[zircon]

I wouldn't get an Axiom actually.. if you're just starting out, it has too many unnecessary features. Look at something by M-Audio instead, for example

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KeyRig49/

or

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Keystation61es/

I'll post more thoughts later, gotta go for a jog now.

[Vivi22]

I wouldn't get an Axiom actually.. if you're just starting out, it has too many unnecessary features. Look at something by M-Audio instead, for example

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KeyRig49/

or

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Keystation61es/

I'll post more thoughts later, gotta go for a jog now.

I think you mean look at something else by M-Audio.

And it may have a bunch of features you don't really need starting out, but still, the keys feel nice, and they're quite innexpensive. He may even want the controls later. Not saying he will or that one choice is better than the other though. If you don't need the extras Bahamut, or think that when you do you may want some more fully featured keyboard synths and controllers than the Axiom then by all means save yourself some extra cash and get something that will do for now while you learn the ins and outs.

[Kanthos]

Any recommendations will be somewhat irrelevant until we know the following:

1) Do you play any instruments? Which ones? In particular, since you mention a MIDI keyboard, how good a pianist are you?

2) How much do you want to spend?

3) What genre(s) of music do you want to make?

4) What instruments, whether real or virtual, can you see yourself using?

5) What software, if any, do you already have?

[Bahamut]

Any recommendations will be somewhat irrelevant until we know the following:

1) Do you play any instruments? Which ones? In particular, since you mention a MIDI keyboard, how good a pianist are you?

2) How much do you want to spend?

3) What genre(s) of music do you want to make?

4) What instruments, whether real or virtual, can you see yourself using?

5) What software, if any, do you already have?

1. Currently just sing. I intend on making use of my free tuition to learn how to play the piano and guitar though.

2. The amounts mentioned here so far isn't an issue, if that's enough info.

3. Good question - currently I don't want to limit myself to any specifics though.

4. Ideally, I want to learn as much as possible for virtual instruments. As for real, as mentioned in #1

5. I have played around a little in Reason and FL, but not enough for me to really get a feel, so I'm open to suggestions. So far it seems like FL would be a good start for me though.

[Kanthos]

Ok, if you're singing, an SM-58 is definitely the way to go. Unless you have access to a good piano and know enough about recording to really make it work well, you'll probably use a software plugin to render your piano sounds, and you could probably plug your guitar in and record directly. There are some good guitar effects plugin packages that are cheap or free too if you want to go that route.

You'll probably want the following:

Mic - SM-58

Audio Interface - Something with both mic and guitar inputs. Firewire if you have it on your machine; USB will work fine too. I use an Edirol UA-25 that I got relatively cheaply on eBay and I'm happy with it.

Software - You're not a good pianist yet, from the sounds of it, so while you should definitely work on those skills, you'll want to be able to enter and edit notes by hand. FL Studio is generally the best DAW to do that.

Other plugins - Depends what you want, really, and how much you want to spend. I'm selling a bunch right now and have a thread on that, or you can get free stuff, both synths and soundfonts. Depending on your styles, you'll probably want some orchestral stuff, piano, drums and percussion, bass, or a synth or two. Name some specific needs here and we can recommend some things in particular.

Keyboard - If you have the cash and think you'll eventually use most of the features, even if you won't now, I highly recommend the M-Audio Axiom 61. I've had mine for a couple years, and it's great. I don't use most of the knobs and buttons myself, but I do like the capabilities and as a pianist, found the touch to be a reasonable compromise between a real piano and a keyboard. This is something you could put off for a while though, until you've progressed a bit as a pianist. There's no real reason to buy everything at once, and there's nothing wrong with adding to your studio later.

[PrototypeRaptor]

Don't forget about good monitoring stuff (speakers, amps, etc)

Although the official answer is to go with monitors, headphones are much, MUCH cheaper.

I'm sure someone will chime in here with some recommendations for headphones/monitors.

Personally, I like the KRK Rokit Rp5's for monitors, and for headphones I've heard good things about Beyerdynamic, AKG, and Grado.

Stay away from sennheiser, according to zircon they aren't mixing headphones...XD

edit: remembered a trick about pop filters - use some hose mesh and a wire hanger. seriously, I'm not kidding. Mine works just fine...and didn't cost me $$$

[The Pezman]

Reason might actually be a better way to start out than FL. I know half the people here swear by it, but Reason's self-contained model means you can look at anyone's project file without a problem. Furthermore, there's much more of a community around Reason (sites with refills, forums, etc) than FL, probably for that reason.

[Bahamut]

Don't forget about good monitoring stuff (speakers, amps, etc)

Although the official answer is to go with monitors, headphones are much, MUCH cheaper.

I'm sure someone will chime in here with some recommendations for headphones/monitors.

Personally, I like the KRK Rokit Rp5's for monitors, and for headphones I've heard good things about Beyerdynamic, AKG, and Grado.

Stay away from sennheiser, according to zircon they aren't mixing headphones...XD

edit: remembered a trick about pop filters - use some hose mesh and a wire hanger. seriously, I'm not kidding. Mine works just fine...and didn't cost me $$$

Hmm? Explain what the monitors are and what's so special about them. Also, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pros - something wrong with them?

[Zephyr]

They just help you hear a sound more purely how it actually is, if you're just starting, you'll probably need to care more about the music and less about the mix, so I wouldn't worry about monitors right now.

[Fishy]

Reason might actually be a better way to start out than FL. I know half the people here swear by it, but Reason's self-contained model means you can look at anyone's project file without a problem. Furthermore, there's much more of a community around Reason (sites with refills, forums, etc) than FL, probably for that reason.

Having started with Reason, I disagree with this on reflection.

Reason is not a standard format DAW, and eventually you will want to move on from it, like I did to Logic. The switch over was not easy. I think you're much better off going for FL or something a little more standard like cubase.

[Kanthos]

Hmm? Explain what the monitors are and what's so special about them. Also, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pros - something wrong with them?

Monitors are speakers that attempt to have as flat a response curve as possible, unlike consumer speakers who, through poor construction, small size, and/or a conscious decision by the manufacturer, color the sound. When you're mixing, you have to remember that not everyone will listen on your gear, and with proper monitors and enough skill, you can make your mix more balanced and tailor the sound the way you want it.

Think of it this way: say you want a fairly loud (compared to the rest of the mix) bass part in your song. If you mix on speakers (not monitors) that add too much bass, you'll end up with less bass than you'd like, since you're mixing to your speakers, so someone with speakers that don't over-emphasize the bass will hear less bass than you heard. On the other hand, say you mix on speakers that under-emphasize the bass. Someone with speakers that emphasize the bass will find it much too loud. Mixing on good monitors or a good pair of headphones with as flat a response as possible will let you come up with the perfect balance, so the effects of a given listener's speakers or headphones will be lessened.

Also, I agree with Fishy's comments on reason. I've never used it, but when I first picked a DAW (I started on FL and when it didn't work quite the way I wanted it to, I gave it to my brother and switched to Cubase), I ignored Reason simply because it won't load VST plugins and I didn't see the point in having a tool that wasn't compatible with the most common plugin format. Yes, you can host Reason inside another DAW to do that, but it shouldn't be that difficult, and doing so uses up more CPU and RAM.

[Zephyr]

I also tried reason, and I found the lack of VST support a little odd, it can't be that hard to integrate that one little thing! You'd think they would have hopped aboard the bandwagon by now. I also found the whole rack-mount wiring deal a little over-complicated, although I can see how it would be useful.

[SnappleMan]

Reason is a plugin as far as I'm concerned. FL Studio is a glorified beat machine, not a real DAW. A DAW allows for a smooth workflow where you can work on music in a real world linear structure and have the options to edit, tweak, arrange and generally deal with it as if it were tape. FL does NOT give you a smooth workflow when it comes to dealing with audio, or dealing with songs written as songs, instead you get that ridiculous pattern bullshit. I know that zircon makes decent sounding music in FL, and one or two dudes make a living using it worldwide, that doesn't mean shit. It's bullshit software as far as I'm concerned, and people who recommend it as a good starting place to learn about writing and recording music are not giving good advice.

Just because you spent your money on it, or spent your time downloading the warez'd version doesn't make it good, or worth using. There are so many other software packages that do an infinitely better job. With LOGICAL workflows and professionally designed user interfaces which make your projects FEEL musical, not like playing with a PS3 version of MTV Music generator. How many times am I going to have to complain about this shit till people start listening?

[PrototypeRaptor]

Reason is a plugin as far as I'm concerned. FL Studio is a glorified beat machine, not a real DAW. A DAW allows for a smooth workflow where you can work on music in a real world linear structure and have the options to edit, tweak, arrange and generally deal with it as if it were tape. FL does NOT give you a smooth workflow when it comes to dealing with audio, or dealing with songs written as songs, instead you get that ridiculous pattern bullshit. I know that zircon makes decent sounding music in FL, and one or two dudes make a living using it worldwide, that doesn't mean shit. It's bullshit software as far as I'm concerned, and people who recommend it as a good starting place to learn about writing and recording music are not giving good advice.

Just because you spent your money on it, or spent your time downloading the warez'd version doesn't make it good, or worth using. There are so many other software packages that do an infinitely better job. With LOGICAL workflows and professionally designed user interfaces which make your projects FEEL musical, not like playing with a PS3 version of MTV Music generator. How many times am I going to have to complain about this shit till people start listening?

Logical workflows are relative; it all depends on the user. I actually prefer FL's patterns/treatment of audio clips AND like the user interface a helluva lot better than cubase/reason/pro tools. The only thing I wish they'd add is a score editor and an automatic "freeze" utility - cubase does have that on it.

But still, it's a solid, well supported (free updates? come on), relatively inexpensive piece of software that shouldn't be discounted so quickly especially to someone just starting out.

IN SHORT:

1. Try the demos for the usual DAWs.

2. Find one that you like. (and buy it)

3. Write music. Lots of music. Practice, practice, practice.

4. ............

5. PROFIT!!!!!

[Yoozer]

How many times am I going to have to complain about this shit till people start listening?

Keep wasting your time on complaints while the rest of the people make music .

instead you get that ridiculous pattern bullshit.

oh, rite, pattern bullshit.

You mean like this:

or this:

or this!

which has this!

One of the Fairlight's most significant software features was the so-called "Page R", which was a real time graphical pattern sequence editor, widely copied on other software synths since. This feature was often a key part of the buying decision of artists.

did i mention what a piece of professional studio equipment this was that costed more than an apartment in Manhattan?

god yes that was fun

the board software thinks I shouldn't post more than 4 images so this softens the blow of the 5-foot titanium spiked cock of pwnage you were scheduled to get

[audio fidelity]

bahamut,

some suggestions from my perspective. if your doing a lot of audio then i agree with snappleman that FL might actually hurt you. its real intuitive and has an easier learning curve for electronic things but it gets kinda backwards when compared to other daws. if you could go mac, (which is definitely a great invest with an 8 core) you should go logic just cause of all the great plugs and sample intruments and loops (definetly the most bang for your buck - you get 40 gigs worth of sounds!.) but cash is always the issue when you talk about a mac pro. i think sonar or cubase are the better choices for pc. stay away from pro tools.

i know m-audio has gotten a lot better, but years ago i got an oxygen and had some of the keys sticking in the first week. i promptly took it back and got a novation which i love. now, you need an audio interface to get your audio into your daw.

here's an all in one solution that you can use and build on.

http://www.novationmusic.com/products/hardware_synths/xstation/

this is a midi controller, that has a synth built in, with fx, and has an audio interface. when you want to get a more advance audio interface you can just keep the synth and midi controller. with this, a daw, and mic. you'll be set. plus the ability to get hands on with a synth is the only way to learn.

if your going to be doing acoustic stuff, like voice and guitar, you should also make sure you get a condenser mic. These capture high frequencies better and just to let you know, they are fragile, very unlike a dynamic sm58 mic which you could just throw against a wall and it would be fine.

good luck

[audio fidelity]

i forgot to add...

if you want quality mixes...you need to get decent studio monitors. if you can't rely on what your listening with your as good as dead in the water.

[Bahamut]

So I was just looking up on the Mac Pro and other stuff - if I were to go that route, then I'd likely end up spending around $4000-5000, as opposed to around ~$1000 on my current PC, but the Mac Pro route would definitely give me more bang for the buck, as well as a work computer & desk for music completely separate from my current one, which could then be used for casual usage & math work (it is a pretty good computer, built 3 months ago with a 3 Ghz E8400 Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB of RAM, and an M-Audio soundcard). It would be possible for me to make the purchase, but I want to make sure whether it's a good idea or not.