Liontamer Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 right let me just not ever use my old psp again because I know there is a new psp coming out soon and using the old one in the meantime as opposed to nothing is pretty much the smartest way to do things Regardless of whether or not VGMix3 was coming tomorrow or later, norg just elaborated that VGMix2's code had a lot of vulnerabilities that were exploited. They're not going to keep using that code when they don't have the people they need to patch it up and make it stable & safe to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 they're not going to really have a safe and stable code to use either if they don't have the people they need to make it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 they're not going to really have a safe and stable code to use either if they don't have the people they need to make it so put up code that can be hacked? obviously if they don't have the people to make a site they don't have people to patch up gaping security issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aninymouse Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Bleck, you're kind of arguing in circles again. Or am I missing your overarching point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aninymouse Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 looooooooooooooooool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I think what Bleck is saying is, something full of holes etc. is better than nothing at all. People have waited a long time. That is what he is trying to say. p.s. Nothing worse than killing your site and a system people were using then making them wait a couple years for something else only for it to not work... I am not complaining, but generally speaking it's still a point to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I'm no programmer or anything That's becoming more and more apparent. Your PSP analogy doesn't even make sense. Your old PSP still works just fine, so yeah, you can still use it. VGMix2 doesn't work just fine. Normally I don't like using the "if you can't do it better don't criticize" argument, but it really makes sense here. You're not a programmer, so you don't understand that working with undocumented code that's riddled with holes and vulnerabilities is a waste of time. Putting VGMix2 back up and trying to hack together solutions to problems that arise: that's not solving the problem; that's just making quick fixes that will break down in the long run. Any programmer can tell you that that's a poor development practice, and ultimately it's irresponsible to the end-user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 metaphor one one hand you have a pc that has internet access but can potentially get viruses on the other hand you have a calculator that you can play dig dug on basically my point is that the faults of the system should become less important if the alternative is fucking nothing at all Any programmer can tell you that that's a poor development practice, and ultimately it's irresponsible to the end-user. if the end-user is all of those people who just want a working vgmix well then I guess you can tell them that you know what is best for them better than they do but in my opinion that is just a little bit pretentious Your PSP analogy doesn't even make sense. a thing about the internet that a lot of people do not seem to learn fast enough is just because you don't understand something does not mean it does not make any sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I think this is a difference of opinions here. If Dave was making OCREMIX3 would he take down the system that is working here and put the site on hold for a year or two, for the new launch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 metaphorone one hand you have a pc that has internet access but can potentially get viruses on the other hand you have a calculator that you can play dig dug on basically my point is that the faults of the system should become less important if the alternative is fucking nothing at all Except that the faults inherent in the system eventually lead to there being nothing at all anyway. The old code has vulnerabilities that will be exploited. Why spend all that time starting the site back up when it's just going to get taken down again. In other words: if the site is unusable, it's the same thing as having nothing at all. if the end-user is all of those people who just want a working vgmix well then I guess you can tell them that you know what is best for them better than they do but in my opinion that is just a little bit pretentious It's not pretentious to say that the end-user deserves a site that's not going to go down all the time, run slowly, or have security holes in it that could potentially compromise passwords and other sensitive information. There's a lot more to VGMix than just song storage you know. :\ a thing about the internet that a lot of people do not seem to learn fast enough is just because you don't understand something does not mean it does not make any sense I understood your analogy just fine, thanks. I also explained why your analogy doesn't make sense. It's flawed and it doesn't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 a better analogy for the less quick out there is windows vs. macs windows is obviously full of many more problems and holes but despite this it is still the most popular OS seeing as though the alternative is basically fuck all The old code has vulnerabilities that will be exploited. well as long as we're all pretending to be fortune tellers here let me just look into my crystal ball and whoops it's telling me that vgmix 3 will never be finished and everybody will keep bitching about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 metaphorone one hand you have a pc that has internet access but can potentially get viruses on the other hand you have a calculator that you can play dig dug on basically my point is that the faults of the system should become less important if the alternative is fucking nothing at all if the end-user is all of those people who just want a working vgmix well then I guess you can tell them that you know what is best for them better than they do but in my opinion that is just a little bit pretentious where your metaphor falls apart is that you have active control over your computer when you use it a person running a web server doesn't sit there watching to see what's happening every moment of every day so basically you put up VGMix 2 and then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then you get it back up then it gets exploited again so you spend another few days somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then, etc. and you have a day job! nobody's that much of a loser to want to do that much work for a free hobby site that they pay for, because it leads to very little getting done about the problem at hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hi guys, can we just say that fear can affect people in many different ways, and responsibility isn't always clear cut on what someone should do? I don't fault either decision but I think there are pros and cons to both! so basically you put up VGMix 2 and then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then you get it back up then it gets exploited again so you spend another few days somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then, etc. Also it really depends on the person doing the exploiting. If you think they'd do it every day then w/e... But usually people get bored, and its only when you make a HUGE DEAL ABOUT IT EVERY TIME that they come back and do it again because that is what makes it entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aninymouse Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 That's a hard call. If Prot executed a brute force attack on the current OCR, say, and we all knew he'd keep trying as we labored to patch the hole in the code, say... what could you do? If something is under attack like that, what do you shoot for? That the hacker gets bored? I can see where you guys are coming from better now, though. However, if VGMix2 was as compromised as people keep claiming it was back then (I wouldn't know, I only went on VGMix a handful of times that year), even if they did "keep it up" while they worked on VGMix3, it would be pointless since the site wouldn't function anyway. Unless Prot had a change of heart and undid what he started himself, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 so basically you put up VGMix 2 and then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then you get it back up then it gets exploited again so you spend another few days somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then somebody exploits it again and then it goes down for another few days fixing while you try and put it back up then, etc. yeah that sounds exactly what happened all of the time if you compress maybe three years into three weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norg Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 this is why we don't feed the trolls. see, the reason for taking vgmix2 down was because it got hacked. to pieces. and the person who did it was poised and ready to do it again. and again. and again. the -instant- it came back up. there is zero point in bringing vgmix2 back up because it will result in the same thing. as such, the alternative IS nothing at all. either a placeholder until vgmix3 is completed, or absolutely nothing because vgmix2 could no longer be used. it was, for all intents and purposes, broken beyond repair. your trolling is pointless and irritating. and hilarious in that you keep trying to come off as hilariously superior to everyone else destroying your arguments. give it a rest. you're being as much a douchedrinker here as you are on irc. also, darkesword said it best in many less words than i did. if you're finding that i'm too verbose and the number of words hurts your colon, read his post and please come up with a better analogy than windows vs mac. because fail. monobrow, you raised a good point a couple posts ago. however, if it was only a matter of something being full of holes that we could at least patch, that would be one thing. it was riddled enough with holes that the ship was sinking and there was no bailing to be done so we are, in effect, in the skiff and rowing to shore until a new ship can be built. the old ship sank. in epic fashion. your last post, unfortunately, doesn't really hold any water because if DJP decided to code ocremix3, he'd still have a perfectly working and safe original ocremix to keep people going and happy. this was not something we had for vgmix. at all. prot would just bring us down again the instant vgmix2 came up again. he still tries to and succeeds at messing around with everything we do to the fullest of his very ample capability. -= george =- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wingless Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 what is all this smiley face shit about? I want a piece of the action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Guys guys guys... time share! p.s. bleck is not a troll :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 this is why we don't feed the trolls. nah, Bleck is good peoples yeah that sounds exactly what happened all of the time if you compress maybe three years into three weeks ideally yeah but you're assuming it's actually EASY to figure out what the exploit is without knowing what's wrong you can't even fix it you either put the site up and deal with it forever which is tiring and stupid or spend days/weeks debugging code for a few exploits that are just quick fixes and will probably make code even more unstable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechaFone Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Clash of the titanic NERDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 what is all this smiley face shit about? I want a piece of the action http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17773 read post! ◕ ◡ ◕ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 and the person who did it was poised and ready to do it again. and again. and again. norg knows everything ever and has to insult people to prove his point your trolling is pointless and irritating. and hilarious in that you keep trying to come off as hilariously superior to everyone else destroying your arguments. anyone who knows anything about the internet knows that the above is basically internetspeak for 'I am not very confident in my argument so I'm going to insult you to make you angry and fumble about' irl they call it ad hominem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norg Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 sorry, how could i have been so foolish as to actually disagree with your insanity. that'll teach me. you sure told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 norg knows everything ever and has to insult people to prove his point Recognizing patterns and drawing logical conclusions from those patterns isn't "knowing everything." It's using intelligence to make sound decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monobrow Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 On the other hand, no one disagrees with my insanity and gets away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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