Batman RIP and DC Comics

[Zeklan]

You heard me AD.

http://stars.ign.com/articles/934/934390p1.html

Goddamn you, DC. Constantly fucking shit up.

[DJMetal]

Wait, is this the real Batman? Because a friend of mine told me that Bruce Wayne isn't Batman any more and they got a new guy. So is this Bruce Wayne or the new guy I'm hearing about? In either case, really?

[Sir_NutS]

Not happening.

[The Author]

Okay, massive spoilers agead, I pulled out my copy of Batman 681 to fill in the holes.

I'm serious MASSIVE SPOILERS.

DO NOT READ IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE SPOILERS.

Starts here

After Batman is shot in the chest area, he stands back up (dude, bullet proof vest) and we find out that Hurt is a man who apparently killed Mangrove Pierce, a double for Thomas Wayne. He then tried to attack the character of the Wayne family. He gave Batman an ultimatum: join him, or have the memory of his parents destroyed by his accusations. Understandingly, Bruce is pissed. As Hurt makes his escape via helicopter, Batman, now cape and cowl removed, jumps and hangs on to the helicopter. The pilot, in attempting to shake Batman off, hits the a tower with the tail of the chopper, losing control. Batman is last seen punching through the chopper's windshield, as Hurt says the Black Glove always wins. The chopper crashes, and explodes, on the Gotham river. In a beautiful shot, on the next page, Nightwing holds the cape and cowl, overlooking the burning river.

Talia Al Ghul promises retribution for the Black Glove. Jez is apparently killed by a swarm of Manbats, le Bossu is surprised by a bright bat signal as he is about to torture someone.

End spoiler

Also, the end of the book is a picture of a black haired character (I would say Dick Grayson, but his jaw is too Superman-like or Tim Drake), wearing what seems to be a batman / nightwing costume and a blond girl wearing something that could be seen as a firebird costume, or maybe a robin costume. That someone appears to be blond or light red haired. The backdrop to this image is the Forteres of Solitude.

[DarkeSword]

You seriously can't formulate an opinion on Batman RIP based on a fucking IGN article. The fact that the article is on IGN's "Stars" website, instead of IGN's "Comics" website (a site that generally knows what it's talking about) makes it even worse.

Here's a spoiler guys: Dr. Hurt doesn't shoot and kill Batman, as that article would lead you to believe. It's actually not even known yet if Bruce Wayne is "dead." Batman is alive and kicking in the page right after the one they have in that article.

In order to get the full story, you have to actually (heaven forbid!) read the storyline, starting with Batman & Son, a storyline from like two years ago. Batman RIP is the culmination of two years (possibly more) of writing by Grant Morrison. Hell, threads of the storyline started in 52.

DC isn't "fucking shit up." Pick up a comic book and read it. The entire last issue of Batman RIP showcases how incredibly badass Batman actually is. His fate is very ambiguous at the end of the issue, and the storyline is nowhere near over. There's still Last Rites, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?, and Battle for the Cowl. DC is doing big things with the entire Batman family, and as a guy who drops anywhere from $25-$40 a week on DC titles, I have to say that it's a very interesting time to be a DC fan.

Also, the end of the book is a picture of a black haired character (I would say Dick Grayson, but his jaw is too Superman-like or Tim Drake), wearing what seems to be a batman / nightwing costume and a blond girl wearing something that could be seen as a firebird costume, or maybe a robin costume. That someone appears to be blond or light red haired. The backdrop to this image is the Forteres of Solitude.

RD, that's not part of the issue. That's one of DC's "DC Nation" pages. Those two characters are Nightwing and Flamebird, from the New Krypton storyline going on in the Superman comics. The name "Nightwing" originally comes from the Superman mythos: Nightwing and Flamebird were masked heroes who patrolled the city of Kandor. Evidence points to the Nightwing featured in the latest issue of Action Comics to be a resurrected Conner Kent, formerly Superboy. After the New Krypton storyline ends in the Superman titles, Action Comics will no longer focus on Superman, but the new Flamebird and Nightwing characters.

[Bleck]

Dick Grayson should be the new Batman, should the time ever arrive.

[The Author]

Dick Grayson should be the new Batman, should the time ever arrive.

Nope.

I wanna see Tim Drake as Batman, Stephanie Brown as Spoiler, and Dick as Nightwing. He is no longer Bruce's ward ans he's a hero on his own.

Even funnier would be Drake as bats, and Damian as Robin, but that wont happen, even if Damian scores big points for possibly throwing the Joker in the Gotham River.

Also, DS, I figured as much, it just seemed interesting to have them both have a Nightwing domino mask, and Nightwing's emblem being a yellow bat. The way I see it, Nightwing and Batgirl will be in Outsiders, new bat and new robin will be in Batman / BDC. The Teen Titans will have yet another roster change, which sucks because Cassie just got cooler... but anyway, most of them ain't Teens anymore.

[Bleck]

I don't want Tim Drake as Batman simply because he's such a good Robin. Not to mention he's far too young.

[DarkeSword]

Nope.

I wanna see Tim Drake as Batman, Stephanie Brown as Spoiler, and Dick as Nightwing. He is no longer Bruce's ward ans he's a hero on his own.

Dick Grayson is the only one at this point who's really good enough to be Batman. Yes, he's a hero on his own, but honestly, all the Bruce/Dick drama is over and done with. They've reconciled their differences long ago. Dick Grayson is the linchpin of the DCU. If there was ever anyone to succeed Bruce as Batman, it has to be his "first son," Dick Grayson.

Besides, the Nightwing name is being shifted back to the Superman line.

Even funnier would be Drake as bats, and Damian as Robin, but that wont happen, even if Damian scores big points for possibly throwing the Joker in the Gotham River.

Rumor has it Tim Drake (or rather, Tim Wayne, since he was officially adopted by Bruce) is going to take on the Red Robin costume for the new Red Robin series. The other new rumored series is "Batman and Robin;" I see this being the series where Batman (whoever it is) will be training the new Robin: Damien. Should be interesting, considering Damien is such a total douchebag.

The Teen Titans will have yet another roster change, which sucks because Cassie just got cooler... but anyway, most of them ain't Teens anymore.

McKeever's bringing in more Titans in an upcoming storyline because the ranks have kind of thinned out. There are really only four core Teen Titans right now: Robin, Wonder Girl, Red Devil, and Blue Beetle. There's an issue coming up where the Teen Titans will be having tryouts, a la the Legion. There is a plan in place to lock in a team for the Titans and keep it that way so that McKeever can get back to telling actual stories rather than shuffling the roster around all the time.

[The Author]

No matter what logic we try to give to these events, in the end, it will be an editorial decision, and it wont be authorial, so Bruce will return. Although, at this point, he could be a mentor, like in Beyond.

[DarkeSword]

Oh of course. There's no way that DC will be able to maintain a non-Bruce Batman for long. I mean with characters like the Flash or Green Lantern, yes, you can do it. But Bruce Wayne's Batman is a top-tier character; he's on the level of Clark Kent's Superman. He's absolutely irreplaceable.

That's not to say these stories don't matter. These are still important stories that are going to contribute to the mythos. But seriously, Bruce will be back.

[Native Jovian]

Discussions like this are why it seems like you need perfect knowledge of at least a decade's worth of backstory to get anything out of comic books. Trying to sort all of this stuff out into a canon timeline is the kind of thing that turns intelligent, educated men into street-ranting bus crazies.

Or maybe that's just me.

[DarkeSword]

Discussions like this are why it seems like you need perfect knowledge of at least a decade's worth of backstory to get anything out of comic books. Trying to sort all of this stuff out into a canon timeline is the kind of thing that turns intelligent, educated men into street-ranting bus crazies.

Or maybe that's just me.

Well like I said in #ocremix, comic books are the one thing that can get my nerd-rage going.

[Bleck]

Discussions like this are why it seems like you need perfect knowledge of at least a decade's worth of backstory to get anything out of comic books. Trying to sort all of this stuff out into a canon timeline is the kind of thing that turns intelligent, educated men into street-ranting bus crazies.

I only got into comics about a year ago and got most of the backstory from the internet

[Native Jovian]

Well, yeah, that's fine, but did you have to go look stuff up on the internet to make sense of what was going on in the comics you were reading at the time? Because that's the impression that I get.

[The Author]

Well, yeah, that's fine, but did you have to go look stuff up on the internet to make sense of what was going on in the comics you were reading at the time? Because that's the impression that I get.

Nope.

But it made it more enjoyable.

There are easier books to get into, especially the year ones. Green Arrow year one was one of my firsts. (I also went into countdown, so I needed massive continuity to get that one.)

[Sir_NutS]

I only got into comics about a year ago and got most of the backstory from the internet

I get on and off of comic books very often. Sometimes I come back for a year, and then stop reading them for another year or more. But I do the same and just catch up with the stories on the internet.

EDIT: and sometimes I just get them off from a friend who never misses one of them.

[DarkeSword]

In an effort to get new readers, publishers often have "jump on points" for readers interested in getting into comics. Writers will keep references to past storylines to a minimum; the affects are still there, but you only have to have a general idea of what happened before, which isn't hard to glean. Right now is not a good time to get into Batman. It's way too confusing for a new reader. I'd recommend waiting until all the Battle for the Cowl stuff blows over and all the new ongoings start up.

That actually applies for pretty much all of DC right now. We're in the thick of some pretty big storylines: RIP/Last Rites in Batman, New Krypton for Superman, War of Light for Green Lantern, and Rise of the Olympian just started in Wonder Woman. Your best bet for a jump on point would be sometime in March/April: DC's starting up a lot of new series and switching gears in a lot of titles.

[wiredzombie]

this is very disappointing

theres no comic shop around where i live, but if there was, i'd pick this one up

good thing they most likely wont discontinue batman...seriously, would they do that to us?

[DarkeSword]

this is very disappointing

theres no comic shop around where i live, but if there was, i'd pick this one up

good thing they most likely wont discontinue batman...seriously, would they do that to us?

Of course not. Batman is one of their top-tier characters.

[The Damned]

Yeah, years of comic book reading has taught me that when they "kill" (or otherwise remove) a major character, they just bring him or her back and effectively ignore all the crap that happened.

Marvel Girl, Cyclops, Superman, Batman (when he fought Bane), Cyborg... the list goes on, and those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.

Bruce Wayne will be back, because of some timewave/alternate dimension/magic/something that they will just throw out next year.

[Bleck]

good thing they most likely wont discontinue batman...seriously, would they do that to us?

did you even read the rest of this thread

[wiredzombie]

yeah, i hate how its so predictable

i'd be caught off guard if they actually killed him for good

[DarkeSword]

Yeah, years of comic book reading has taught me that when they "kill" (or otherwise remove) a major character, they just bring him or her back and effectively ignore all the crap that happened.

Except that with Batman and Superman, they don't ignore everything that happened. Especially in the case of Superman, they talk about that stuff all the time, and the Doomsday character is always coming back in different incarnations, most recently in last month's issue of Superman. Before that there was a Kryptonite-laced mutated Doomsday soldier created by the US Government called "The All-American Boy" in the Kryptonite arc of Superman/Batman. Characters reference Superman's death all the time; Batman had a great, bitter line in Infinite Crisis a few years ago about how the last time Superman inspired anyone was when he was "dead."

Yeah comic book deaths are never permanent, blah blah blah, but don't act like these stories never have any lasting impact. There are tons of things that came out of the death and subsequent resurrection of Superman that still reverberate today.

Likewise with the Knightfall storyline. I mean come on: Bane. An excellent addition to the rogue's gallery. Elements of the character were even utilized in the buildup to RIP: one of the three "Replacement Batmen" was a dude pumped full of Bane's venom; a hulkish monster-Batman. Don't forget that Jean Paul Valley's Azrael: Agent of the Bat series ran for eight years and only ended five years ago.

[Zup]

I heard about this in my History of Superheroes class today when Gail Simone came in and talked about Birds Of Prey and her current writing on Wonder Woman.

She knows what's going to happen, apparently, and acted excited about it. She also mentioned that while there are editorial mandates, they're extremely rare and the choice to "kill" Batman was made a long, long time ago. The writers have a considerable amount of freedom.