Do you listen to albums or songs?

[Lie Mf B]

I've been playing Nintendo tunes for a few years now, and I usually have a goal of putting the songs I record on a more or less coherent album. I like the album format because that's what I grew up listening to, it makes it more exciting when releasing music and I like hearing whole albums than just single short songs if the artist is good.

But I feel silly for keeping finished songs on my harddrive when people keep asking me "when's your album done?", just because I wanna release a whole album. And it just seems pointless and old-fashioned sometimes, especially when people download everything and don't buy an actual record with a cover.

But do you people here actually like the album format for remixes?

[Halt]

I've been playing Nintendo tunes for a few years now, and I usually have a goal of putting the songs I record on a more or less coherent album. I like the album format because that's what I grew up listening to, it makes it more exciting when releasing music and I like hearing whole albums than just single short songs if the artist is good.

But I feel silly for keeping finished songs on my harddrive when people keep asking me "when's your album done?", just because I wanna release a whole album. And it just seems pointless and old-fashioned sometimes, especially when people download everything and don't buy an actual record with a cover.

But do you people here actually like the album format for remixes?

Of course. The Album format makes YOU the composer, able to express your music in a orderly fashion and style with album art that represents your music, and your self. Album lets all the hard work go out in one shot, instead of single songs. Albums are the way to go.

[Yoozer]

A bunch of songs needs to have coherence to fit on an album. This could be a common theme or style.

If you don't feel you can finish an album in time, just finish it as a 2-part EP (with 5 tracks each).

[Nase]

Generally, I know very few albums that I completely enjoy from end to start.

That makes me feel even more that putting together a good album is a very intricate art.

But because I enjoy so few albums (Not judging by individual songs, but by the quality it adds to the songs by being in album format), I find I don't care much most of the time.

Talking about remixes, Relics of the Chozo did pretty well in that regard (Maybe because it was mostly done by one person). The other projects i know mostly sounded like samplers with a common theme.

[Rozovian]

I recommend going for an album. Getting one or several good enough for ocr and linking your album in the submission email is also away to get the word out about your album, so the non-ocr tracks also get heard. Then there's VGMDB, so you get a little exposure from there as well.

Depends of course on your motivation for making the album. If it's just for fun, just for friends, then hand out a track when it's done. It'd be easier to output a more coherent (mixing, sound, levels) collection of tracks if you release the tracks together, keeping them to make final tweaks until all of them are finished.

[zircon]

I agree with Nasenmann... few albums are worth listening to from start to finish more than once or twice, at least in my experience. Part of it is that MANY artists have too consistent of a style, so unless you want to hear the same kind of music for 45-60 minutes it can get old quick. The exception would be albums like the kind you hear on OCR, which feature the same kind of underlying compositions but very different arrangement and production styles.

[suzumebachi]

I agree with Nasenmann... few albums are worth listening to from start to finish more than once or twice, at least in my experience. Part of it is that MANY artists have too consistent of a style, so unless you want to hear the same kind of music for 45-60 minutes it can get old quick. The exception would be albums like the kind you hear on OCR, which feature the same kind of underlying compositions but very different arrangement and production styles.

Well, in that case you might as well be listening to your mp3 player set to shuffle. Albums are generally meant to be cohesive. Honestly though, I don't mind those types of variety albums (or whatever you would call them, if there is a technical term). It depends on the album, the style, my mood, whatever. But I have a tendency to like cohesive albums on the whole more.

It's nice to have an album that plays well front to back. Like any Pink Floyd album, or even Relics of the Chozo. The problem with these albums are sometimes the songs are weak by themselves. For example, Dark Side of the Moon. 'Great Gig in the Sky' isn't a bad song by itself, but it just makes so much more sense when you listen to it right after 'Time'.

But on the other hand, sometimes it's nice to have a variety of songs that can stand well enough on their own. Like most Led Zeppelin albums, or Voices of the Lifestream (or <shameless plug> An Ideal Euphemistic). But some of these types of albums are hard to listen to all at once, especially if they're long like VotL.

But before you go and say "oh my god you're so not helping," in my opinion there is a (super) happy medium. Albums with lots of variety that are still cohesive and work well as an album, comprised of songs that also stand well on their own. They do exist. The Beatles had a few albums like this, notably Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band and the White Album. The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds might be another example. I realize I'm setting the bar pretty high here, but if you're gonna strive for something, why not go balls out all the way?

[Lie Mf B]

Interesting responses. I'm definitely an "album guy" myself, and I totally agree with suzumebachi about what makes a good album. (Pink Floyd and Led Zep made great records in the era of concept albums.)

I succeeded better than I hoped for (regarding cohesiveness, flow and variety) when I made my Nintendosploitation album. Right now my sense of direction is not quite as straight, but I'm definitely staying in the album route, trying to achieve cohesiveness and variety on a new cd.

I've sold/given a bunch of CDs of Nintendosploitation, but in just three years I've noticed that the interest for small independent artists on CD has waned, with downloading taking over. So that's why I'm keen to hear what other people think. It seems, however, that the interest for album in the remixing community is still quite big.

[zircon]

Well, in that case you might as well be listening to your mp3 player set to shuffle. Albums are generally meant to be cohesive. Honestly though, I don't mind those types of variety albums (or whatever you would call them, if there is a technical term). It depends on the album, the style, my mood, whatever. But I have a tendency to like cohesive albums on the whole more.

Yep, I do usually set my media player and playlist to shuffle. There aren't that many good albums out there that will hold my attention for a full 45-60 minutes, at least more than once. Every album I buy does get a full listen-through when I first buy it, of course.

Basically I agree with what you said towards the end - I like cohesive albums that are still varied.

[Kizyr]

Normally, I listen to songs and just put my MP3 player on random shuffle. In part that's because most of the music I listen to is not on a specific album (like OCR or other independent collections). Though, much of it is because I don't find most albums have any logical order to them, outside of perhaps the opening and closing tracks.

I will say, though, that I really appreciate it when an album does have some logical order to it. For the few songs that fall into that category, I'll often listen to them in the order they're on the album. This tends to happen mostly with independent artists--the ones that come to mind first are some OCR albums (particularly Chrono Symphonic, Dark Side of Phobos, and Project Chaos), The Megas' Get Equipped (their Annihilation of Monsteropolis was posted on OCR), Antigravity from Zircon, and Origins from Pixietricks.

I would recommend sticking to the album format as much as possible. It would give you more control over the context within which someone would hear a song. It also lets you put interludes, openings, closings, etc., and might help to give you an entire finished project to be satisfied with, rather than just a disparate collection of songs. (Not to mention that you can "pull up" some songs that are weaker in your opinion.)

This is just coming from the point-of-view of a listener, not a composer. But my thought is that you'll do better by aiming for an entire album. Even if it doesn't entirely hold together, then some of the individual songs can still stand out by themselves. Whereas if you abandon going for albums altogether, that's sort of an unrealized potential there. KF

[jmr]

I've sold/given a bunch of CDs of Nintendosploitation

...really? If I'd have known that you were selling it, I would have GLADLY bought it. Nintendosploitation is definitly one of the best arrangement albums I've ever heard.

To answer your question: I prefer whole, cohesive albums over individual songs. Sure, I'll admit I've loaded my MP3 player up with individual, randomized songs, but I much prefer popping on a CD / record / etc and listening to a whole album.

Plus, if you choose, you can include art and liner notes (which is still possible with individual tracks, but not nearly as common).

[Lie Mf B]

I would recommend sticking to the album format as much as possible. It would give you more control over the context within which someone would hear a song. It also lets you put interludes, openings, closings, etc., and might help to give you an entire finished project to be satisfied with, rather than just a disparate collection of songs. (Not to mention that you can "pull up" some songs that are weaker in your opinion.)

You hit it on the nail there. This is exactly how I like to do it. An album makes it possible to take a little riff or melody and just make something short that fits on the album, and you don't have to worry about making a song with a conventional structure out of everything just to please the "shufflers" or OCR.

...really? If I'd have known that you were selling it, I would have GLADLY bought it. Nintendosploitation is definitly one of the best arrangement albums I've ever heard.

Wow, thanks! I'm glad you liked it. I've improved a lot technically since I made that album over three years ago, but I find it difficult to repeat some of the spontaneous enthusiasm and "vision" I had when I recorded it.

Today I'm focusing more on making new music rather than selling that one, but I'll burn/print new copies if there is interest for it, and I'll gladly sell one to you for a decent price. I should probably make a thread for selling it here on the forum. (I do have a "donate money and receive a copy" link on my website but I guess people haven't noticed or cared about it.)

[sgx]

I listen to albums. I don't ever make playlists or listen on shuffle. Usually I'll be in the mood for an artist's style, so I'll listen to a full album. I don't like getting singles. If someone sends me a sweet track they just finished here, I'll listen to it right then, maybe save it, but I'll rarely come back to it because it is just lost in a sea of other music. I need a big chunk of music grouped together to keep my attention.

Albums that have a lot of variety and are really disparate in style I don't like as much as something that is cohesive as a whole. My older albums are like this and I've been working on getting away from that. Back then I was trying out a lot of different genres/styles partly to see if I could do it competently. Once I had 60 minutes of music, I just dumped it onto an album. I don't often listen to my second to last album Chroma straight through because I'll come up on a track that I'm simply not in the mood for then and skip it.

I think Albums like that are not taking advantage of the full album format and show that the artist didn't have the vision to do something beyond packaging up a bunch of singles. Not that that is bad...if you're gonna sell music, albums are a good way to do it...its just that there is potential in the medium that wasn't taken advantage of to make a better piece of art.

[tgfoo]

I'm an album person. I rarely make play lists to listen to. Hell sometimes I'll just be listening to an album on my ipod and before I know it I've listened to it 3 or 4 times straight... as a matter of fact, I'm doing that right now.

[sgx]

I bet you were sleeping in your cube.

[tgfoo]

No, I don't listen to music when I'm sleeping in my cube. That's just bad form.

[Lie Mf B]

I don't like getting singles. If someone sends me a sweet track they just finished here, I'll listen to it right then, maybe save it, but I'll rarely come back to it because it is just lost in a sea of other music. I need a big chunk of music grouped together to keep my attention.

That is so true. I got a bunch of great songs - many from OCR - on my harddrive that I never listen to because I never bother to listen to one track. And mixed playlists I only listen to rarely, like when I'm gonna have a party or something.

[Doni]

lets take the best of both worlds shall we? honestly as a vinyl warrior I find that albums these days are not as much albums as they are a collection on songs that have no relationship at all (with rare exceptions). I love a solid album but putting the ipod on shuffle is a good option too. I think if songs are good enough on their own or as part of an album then they wont ever be lost to me

[PhiJayy]

Lots of good posts here, I have to take everything into account.

Since our album is virtually almost done.

[SplAdamB]

I've feared for some years that the internet/song download phenom. will bring the death of the album. Albums are a representation of a body of work, a period or phase of an artist or band, and gives the listener the chance to connect on a level that a single cannot. More importantly, an Album shows an artist or bands ability to put together an entire body of work. Just think how different music would be without the contributions of some epic concept albums. They give the ability to express an atmosphere, a conceptual view into an era, place, feeling, way of thinking or style. They also show a consistency of skill and song writing ability that singles could never relate. Please remember to support the validity of the Album. Anyone could make a one hit wonder, but it takes a collection of talents to make an album. Except of course if your Britney Spears.

[Kizyr]

I've feared for some years that the internet/song download phenom. will bring the death of the album. Albums are a representation of a body of work, a period or phase of an artist or band, and gives the listener the chance to connect on a level that a single cannot. More importantly, an Album shows an artist or bands ability to put together an entire body of work. Just think how different music would be without the contributions of some epic concept albums. They give the ability to express an atmosphere, a conceptual view into an era, place, feeling, way of thinking or style. They also show a consistency of skill and song writing ability that singles could never relate. Please remember to support the validity of the Album.

That's sounds similar to the justification CDBaby gives for not doing single-song downloads, but only whole-album downloads when offered (http://cdbaby.com/mp3).

I don't think that there's need to fear that downloading will erode away the importance of an album altogether. If you think about it, one of the reasons single-song downloads became so popular is because album quality overall was pretty poor--that is, people were tired of only liking 1-2 songs off an album but having to pay for the entire thing. I think it's just as likely, if not more so, that the prospect of downloads and selection can prompt a resurgence of producing entire cohesive albums that aren't simply a scattered collection of songs--a slapped-together album will only get partially listened to (and purchased), while an album with thought put into it will get purchased on the whole. KF

[Lie Mf B]

Yeah, that makes sense, Kezyr. Albums no longer need to be an outlet for single songs (coupled with filler). And I don't mind if there are fewer album releases than before, if the ones that do come out utilize the format better. And that's what I hope and think will happen; the album will live on as a format for artists who really wish to strive for the full potential of it. Of course, that doesn't automatically mean that everyone will succeed in making a great album without filler.

I love CDBaby's take on it:

Why no single song-purchase?

This is not a hit-song store. No corporate filler-tracks. These artists poured their life (and personal bank accounts) into every song on that album, and you're going to love it.

[sgx]

That's sounds similar to the justification CDBaby gives for not doing single-song downloads, but only whole-album downloads when offered (http://cdbaby.com/mp3).

I don't think that there's need to fear that downloading will erode away the importance of an album altogether. If you think about it, one of the reasons single-song downloads became so popular is because album quality overall was pretty poor--that is, people were tired of only liking 1-2 songs off an album but having to pay for the entire thing. I think it's just as likely, if not more so, that the prospect of downloads and selection can prompt a resurgence of producing entire cohesive albums that aren't simply a scattered collection of songs--a slapped-together album will only get partially listened to (and purchased), while an album with thought put into it will get purchased on the whole. KF

Well, there's also the fact for cdbaby that there are certain minimum transaction fees for even $1 transactions. The seller has to pay the credit card company some amount of money every transaction. Have you ever seen like a small deli place have a sign that says "cash only if below $5." That's technically not allowed by the credit card companies, but the delis do it because the the charge for the transaction is probably a set sum (maybe 30 cents) plus a small percentage of the sale. When the sale amount is really small, that first 30 cents bites into profits a lot. Also, other payment methods like checks: its not efficient for them to accept and pay an employee to process a $1 check every time one single is sold.

I know I only sell albums on my small netlabel because Paypal takes something like 30 cents per transaction and then i think it's like 3% after that. If I sold $1 singles, only about 65 cents would be coming my way, and then I have to pay my artist too. It's not worth it. I need to sell music in larger chunks to help negate that transaction fee.

Plus I feel that most people, once they decide they are willing to spend money on an artists music won't resist paying a little more than they wanted to if it is the only option. I sell for less than iTunes and Amazon mp3 so I think we're set.