Legend Of Zelda Labyrinth Theme Remix

[glasfen]

I can't believe I didn't hear the flute tune before in your solos! That's just sweet.

The only problem I hear is a squeak at 3:50. Other than that, I doubt there's anything I can add which would help. Guitars are outstanding, balance and spread are fantastic (really gives one an earful), improvisation and use of the source are excellent... What more could the judges want? Great work.

[Gario]

The mixing is much better in this version. I really believe you have a good shot at getting past the judges with this, as it's pretty creative and clever, as a whole.

The best of luck!

[Dj Mokram]

Just listened to the lastest version...

Man this is one mean remix! Get you in the mood to butcher some skeletons & blue knights in dat damn dungeon!

Great atmosphere, luv the work on the synths (I'm learning the ropes myself), and the guitar leads the song in a powerful way.

My main complain, well you might not be awaiting that at this point, but I'm telling ya anyway :

The guitar litteraly devours the rythmic pattern. Those kicks & snares need more energy!

Consider giving those drums some more impulse so they can pack as much punch as the rest of the instruments.

I can't really judge the guitar skill cuz I don't play guitar.

But it seems at some point (almost middle of the track), that the death chords de-synchronize a little bit with the tempo...

Might be me dreaming that too.

Overall great job, it rocks.

[jabond23]

I still haven't actually submitted it yet, cause i previously submitted a remix for RC Pro AM for the NES and i'm awaiting the judgement on that. So any and all criticism is absolutely welcome!

I noticed that the rythym guitar does seem to drown out the drums in this ReMix especially. In every other song i've done, it doesn't take so much precedence. But i'm still kinda working on adjusting levels to fix that problem.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Pretty interesting take on the theme. I agree it gets a lot out of the short original. I also like the mix of guitar/drums and electronic/8-bit sounds, for instance after the solo at 02:47-02:52.

The panning is too severe in the intro, it gives me nausea on the headphones.

The part writing needs work. I feel bad that I don't know enough theory to give precise feedback, but I can tell that it's off at several places. It's a difficult source for sure to write from.

00:19-00:32, the descending three figures of four chords. In the final figure, the fourth chord/note at 00:31 is off.

00:33-00:38 the guitar ascends back up. Sounds like it's not in quite the correct scale. I think the culprit is just the fourth chord/note (at 00:35).

Next, the descending four figures: the last two are off, probably the third note again. I'm not sure if the chord changes on the synth underneath are good after the first figure. 00:53-00:58 the bass is lost, sounding aimless and out of key. Same again at 01:12-01:16, 01:33 (there's one note out of scale, rest sounded good there), 01:50-01:54, 02:23-02:28, 02:43-02:47.. and yeah, the same part to the end of the track. I'm also not feeling the big guitar solo 02:10-02:48 due to the same off-scale feel that bothers me elsewhere.

I love that part at 01:55-02:00, and 02:00-02:09 is good too.

Overall a track with great promise but also severe problems. You've already done a lot of recording for this one so I'm not sure if you want to revisit this, but I honestly think it's in order. It might help to get feedback from someone who actually knows theory, someone who could name chords/scales and make actual suggestions and so on..

--Eino

[jabond23]

I appreciate your comments evktalo. This particular ReMix has been a long road to getting it right.

The intro synth pans a lot due to the default settings, and to be completely honest, i'm not really sure how to get it to stop spinning like that. But i do have an idea about though.

As for the notes in scales, especially where you pointed out, its actually taken from the source material.. Maybe the midi file i based my notes on were actually off, but i think they're the correct notes. I think the way the source was written it was meant to be like that? I'll double check that too. As for my big solo, the backing guitar is playing the lower notes from the source material and then just adding the 8th and 5th note from the chord. And the ending for that was a little death metal riff i added.

Again i appreciate your comments and i'll see if i can find the particular notes your talking about. And if you don't mind, check out my FF4 ReMix and let me know what ya think of it as well.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22650

[Eino Keskitalo]

Hi, thanks for responding. It is quite possible the midi maker got it wrong. I certainly don't find anything wrong with the original. I listened to the original on Youtube (

) and the bass/melody has a different rhythm. Dunno if it's different in other Zelda games. I might do some comparison on the keyboard if I find the time. Might be fun to figure out.

--Eino

[jabond23]

I don't think the original is in 4/4 time. Or at least when i remixed it, i did it in 4/4 time using sets of 8 measures to make is somewhat easier on myself and to give my version a little more structure.

I listened to the original on youtube via the link you left and i think i do hear a note or two that is different. I'm not really sure though.

[Eino Keskitalo]

I didn't mean the time signature, but the time values of the individual notes.

For sure, changing any of those, time signatures, rhythms, melodies, scales and so on around are all rearrangement and interpretation methods.

--Eino

[jabond23]

I didn't mean the time signature, but the time values of the individual notes.

For sure, changing any of those, time signatures, rhythms, melodies, scales and so on around are all rearrangement and interpretation methods.

--Eino

Yeah, unfortunately when i was taking guitar classes back in high school, i should've paid more attention to the theory of the music instead of just playing faster. lol, but i stay on rythym just fine....usually....

[jabond23]

Its been a good month or so since i did any sort of work on this mix, and i'm still waiting to hear back on my RC Pro AM ReMix i had submitted to OCR back in Feb. Still, i finally went back and addressed all sorts of issues, most of them volume and compression.

I know that some mentioned the compression, with the drums especially, probably being too much. I let up on the compression a lot as well on the whole track. I think this made a huge difference in the overall sound of the track. I also added a couple more choir parts as well as a synth in the background of the intro, "verse", and the second half of the guitar solo. Overall though, i think a lot of the production problems have been addressed and i'm hoping thats finally OCR worthy. )

Check it out here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/228851181/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair2__LOZ_NES_Dungeon_.mp3

I apologize for having to use rapidshare, but i still get errors when trying to upload a track to tindeck. Whenever i get that figured out, i'll put up the tindeck link.

[jabond23]

I think this is my final version for this remix, finally. I've submitted this remix in the past to OCR and got rejected, but rightfully so. I now know that my first few subs to OCR were very crappy, on a production level. I'm hoping that once they either accept or reject my already submitted RC Pro AM remix that they will accept this one. I've put a lot of effort and energy into getting this one just right. And i really appreciate all the comments i've gotten so far on this one.

Anyways, the final addition to this remix is me adding a sub bass to the intro part and the outro/final chorus part. Listening to this remix in the car you can really hear the sub bass kicking very nicely. Other than that, there's just been some minor tweaking of volumes and such.

http://rapidshare.com/files/238610769/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair2__LOZ_NES_Dungeon_.mp3

Please let me know whether or not this might be passed by the judges here?

[Rozovian]

It's come a long way... It sounds like it'd either get a NO (resub) or a conditional YES. The arrangement sounds YESable.

There's a guitar screwup at 1:05, and the guitars are too loud and bury the drums sometimes. The overall mix is pretty thick and filled, which on one hand might be better than leaving big gaps in the sound, but on the other makes it kind'a messy. The intro has something, a phaser methinks, at a rate that kind'a screws with the tempo of the track, and keeps screwing when it comes back. Fixing that, and giving some tracks a quick, rough, and subtle EQ treatment to give the drums a little more punch and carve some frequencies from the guitar to give the other instruments some room.

btw, do you have any crashes in this?

I normally don't like sfx in games, but 2:52 was great. Overall, it's pretty much borderline at the time, some easy fixes should put it above it. Nice work man.

[jabond23]

btw, do you have any crashes in this?

I normally don't like sfx in games, but 2:52 was great. Overall, it's pretty much borderline at the time, some easy fixes should put it above it. Nice work man.

Its been NO'ed 2 times now, which is why i'm trying to get it just right before i attempt to sub it a 3rd time. I appreciate what you think of the sound effects part. I wanted to add a breakdown of sorts before the final chorus, and i thought that sounded pretty good.

There were crashes in it, but apparently i left the volume so quiet that you could barely hear them, if it all. I fixed that problem as well. I adjusted the frequencies of the guitars to allow the lower frequencies of the drums and bass to sound more vibrant. I can't tell if now the guitars aren't loud enough? I think they are ok, volume wise. Also, the instrument in the intro and that kept popping up throughout the song was synth of sorts, but i changed it to an organ which i think adds to the atmosphere of the song. I think by changed the EQ levels on some of the tracks for the mix it helped to clear up the "clutter" or "thickness", as you put it, of the song.

Let me know what ya think of the revisions i made.

Update: http://rapidshare.com/files/238628143/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair2__LOZ_NES_Dungeon_.mp3

[Rozovian]

The organ does give the track a different feel, which works well, but I still heard that off-tempo thing. It's an effect (or lfo-controlled attribute in a synth). Changing the rate to something that syncs with the track bpm should fix it.

Some of the leads could be a little louder (like in the section from around :40). You could also EQ the guitars a little more, cut 1-2 dB of highs (maybe high/mid mids as well) from the rhythm guitars and cut some lows (maybe low mids) from the leads. That should clear up the guitar sound more.

3:15... nice. I heard it before, but it was buried. Now it's much easier to hear.

Drum writing gets a little hinky in some places. 3:30 hihats screw with the rhythm (or aren't backed up by another instrument), 2:09 drums are pretty boring but wouldn't need much fixing (just an extra fill somewhere and some extra kick notes here and there). Hihats could be a little louder, at least when during the loud parts.

Better...

[jabond23]

The organ does give the track a different feel, which works well, but I still heard that off-tempo thing. It's an effect (or lfo-controlled attribute in a synth). Changing the rate to something that syncs with the track bpm should fix it.

Update: http://rapidshare.com/files/238697195/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair2__LOZ_NES_Dungeon_.mp3

Also, i'm trying mediafire as my download site cause i can't get my files to upload to tindeck or megaupload and rapidshare takes too long if you have a free account.

Mediafire: http://www.mediafire.com/?zt3njfmimnm

Let me know if the mediafire links works. I would rather upload to a site where you don't have to wait 15 minutes in between downloads.

I took a db or 2 off of the highs from the rythym guitars and tweaked around some other EQs to help balance the tracks out. I also fixed the drum pattern on the 3:15 part towards the outro and some extra kicks and fills to the solo at 2:09 so make it more interesting. I was trying to find some other instrument to replace the organ cause i'm not really sure if i like it or not yet, for now it fits pretty well.

As for what you suggested for the slightly off tempo intrument, probably the synth, i tried flipping a couple switches in the plugin, but to be honest i'm not really what most of it even does! J/k, i know what most of it means, but i think i found the right switch for what you were talking about.

[glasfen]

Mediafire works just fine.

Comments:

- The solo around 2:14 sounds a bit drowned by the rhythm guitar. Also at 3:19-3:20 (I liked that note-bending bit).

-The synth lead is a little quiet too (starting at 3:32).

-There's a squeak at 3:50-3:51 (which might be a file glitch).

-Maybe give the choral voices a little more pop at the last note?

I can see Rozo's comment about things being a little off-kilter. It sounds like it's the rhythm of the guitar which starts around 1:19 and seems to contrast with the fluidity of the synth. You use the same rhythm later with electric guitar without a problem. Personally, I overlook it for the sake of the composition and the fact that it sounds interesting (but I'm no professional critic).

Kind of off topic, but do you run your guitar directly into the computer, then tweak the sound, or run it to a pedal set first?

Nice work, jb23.

[jabond23]

Update: http://www.mediafire.com/?j2matlcw2jz

And if mediafire doesn't work, try: http://rapidshare.com/files/239246346/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair_LoZ.mp3

And i'm glad mediafire works, cause rapidshare takes wayyyyy too long to download more than 1 file if you have the free account like me.

I fixed the volume on the leads, especially where you noted. I kinda noticed that too. I also fixed the volume on the synth lead around 3:32 so its now too a little louder. I really didn't hear a squeak at 3:50-3:51, but i think it was the vst i was using. I changed it to the other synth i use for this mix. Hopefully that cleared it up a little. As for the choir, i tried messing around with the volumes/EQ so subtly to give it a little more notice.

Kind of off topic, but do you run your guitar directly into the computer, then tweak the sound, or run it to a pedal set first?

When I record guitar, i just plug it right into the computer then use software. Unfortunately, I can't support buying all the necessary equipment to have a pedal set. But, for now i like my setup.

[jabond23]

Mediafire is giving me problems, so try: http://rapidshare.com/files/239246346/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair_LoZ.mp3 and I got files to upload to tindeck again and the link to that is:

[Eino Keskitalo]

Yeah, it's come a long way. The overall sound sounds much more balanced for most of the track. I still think it's harmonically a mess in lot of places (though maybe improved a bit?). I'm a bit surprised that nobody else seems to be hearing that though, maybe it's just me.

The chugging rhythm guitar at 00:57-01:11 is rhythmically off, it's not played tightly enough. It's also slightly off at 01:16-01:30, though less so and it's not as noticeable as it is in the background. The latter is more of a nitpick, the former is pretty audible.

--Eino

[Gario]

I normally don't like sfx in games...

So Rozo, where do you like sfx? lol...

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really like this song. I believe this was said before, but the highs in the mix are too dominant - it creates a shimmer that muddies that range terribly. Knock the high end down on the mastering a few dbs and you should be good to go, there.

The soloing & leads are too quiet throughout the entire song... I really like the ripping and lead work you do here, but it's an element of the background, atm. Bring it out to the forefront of the song please.

The drums are a little too dry, as they are. Don't overdo it, but a little more reverb could help bring them out better.

By the way, the chiptunes at 2:48 - 2:52 are as pure awesome as anyone can get... period. Don't ever take them out .

Yeah, it's great arrangementwise, but the mixing will still hold this back from the ever-elusive 'YES'. Some elements that should be in the front are in the back, the background elements are too far forward, etc... and the mastering is hot, at the moment (the EQ has too many highs - it sounds a little like it's coming from a car radio ). Raise the mids and lower the highs - it'll help the overall sound.

Keep it up - I have to admit, your the most interesting WIP poster here, for me. I either love your stuff or hate it; I have no inbetween with your work. That basically guarentees that I'll listen to anything you post here, so good job

[jabond23]

S

By the way, the chiptunes at 2:48 - 2:52 are as pure awesome as anyone can get... period. Don't ever take them out .

Keep it up - I have to admit, your the most interesting WIP poster here, for me. I either love your stuff or hate it; I have no inbetween with your work. That basically guarentees that I'll listen to anything you post here, so good job

Update:

or

http://rapidshare.com/files/240920393/NintenJoe_64_-_Dungeon_Of_Despair3__LOZ_NES_Dungeon_.mp3

.

I noticed that high EQ problem once i listened to the song in my car. I ordered a new set of speakers for my pc cause i noticed that mixing the EQ levels can sometimes be a pain on my current speakers. If it sounds good in my car, then i know i'm good.

I fixed all the general problems you pointed out. Mainly bringing the leads up front and everything else in the background where it should be. It does make a huge difference.

I really like the chiptune part at 2:48-2:52 as well. I wanted something to build up to the final chorus and couldn't think of anything else. And thank you for for you WIP poster comment, i really appreciate it. I'm glad you like MOST of my work.

[Gario]

Wow, with the proper mixing this piece is really shining, now!

A couple of comments (I've always got more ) - at 0:38 - 0:57 (and other parts like it) the soundscape seems a little empty... The sound is way too centered. Spread the sound around using panning or something there (0:57 - 1:35 was perfect when it coms to stereo balance - aim for that sound in the rest of the mix).

Another note - 1:16 - 1:35 is really one of those defining moments in this song... It'd be my favorite part if that chiptunage wasn't there . Try to balance the mix according to the sound being evoked at that part (from a soundscape perspective, that is).

I've tried holding back, but I can't help it - the choir is moving in parallel 5ths, and it's driving me mad. PLEASE harmonize in 3rds or 10ths there (major or minor, according to what sounds better in the moment), or just using octaves - it will put my mind at ease (and it'll help define your harmonies better, making the harmonic motion cleaner in those sections).

I'm glad you like MOST of my work.

What can I say - I'm a brutally honest poster .

It's getting much better. It can be better still, though. Good luck!

[PROTO·DOME]

I thought I'd check this out as it was on the front page. Initial reactions were, "seriously, wtf", however I stuck with it and it's completely grown on me! This is awesome. I love the SFX, they're applied really well.

Another note - 1:16 - 1:35 is really one of those defining moments in this song... It'd be my favorite part if that chiptunage wasn't there . Try to balance the mix according to the sound being evoked at that part (from a soundscape perspective, that is).

I disagree. I thought it was welcome in the soundscape, I liked it- however, y'don't have to listen to me, my opinion. ^^

Looking forward to the next version of this.

[Gario]

Oops - I said soundscape... I meant stereo seperation. lol, my bad. Yeah, the stereo spread is weak throughout the song (other than the part I pointed out before). Sorry for the slip up!