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Rockman & Forte ~ New Beginning New Path


Dj Mokram
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When it comes to arrangement, maybe it's just me, but it feels like it's missing a driving force. My suggestion: timpanis.

They would give the whole thing a bit more cohesion, and the epicness factor would definitely improve.

Thanks. I take your suggestion on timpanis and orchestral percussion in general.

Though the lack of 'driving force' may come from the fact that I want an emphasis on the slow building, rather than on a boombastic and epic holywood trailer.

I'm glad you decided to remix this song.

I like v.5 because it is more suspenseful and powerful than v.6. If you want to continue your work from v.6., I advise you to listen to Mega Man X6 intro stage song.

It has an epic feeling to and may give you some ideas.

Haven't played or listened to Megaman X6 in ages. This one works too.

I dropped v5 mainly because many suggested the drum parts were inadequate in most instances.

And since the mix wasn't that cohesive to begin with, I figured I should try another way around, instead of over-tweaking everything.

But like I said regarding the previous comment, I'm not necessarily going for more epicness.

I'm thankful for the feedback though. ;)

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  • 1 month later...
I think the biggest problem this song has is production. Unfortunately, I don't really know what to tell you to help with that (especially the drumset about halfway through).

When it comes to arrangement, maybe it's just me, but it feels like it's missing a driving force. My suggestion: timpanis. They would give the whole thing a bit more cohesion, and the epicness factor would definitely improve.

I agree, you should add in some timpanis or at least introduce some low frequencies to the first half.

In the second half the bass is there, but perhaps you could draw it out a little and have it sustained longer? Or perhaps just kick up the bass a bit.

I like the orchestral-ness of it =] Will be epic when it's done. hehe

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  • 1 month later...

I think this is a great step forward. The one big thing that stands out to me is that bass never really seems to jump out. It needs to be a little more dominant, at least in most parts. The timpanis are definitely a great add though. I also think that maybe the overall track volume needs to be increased slightly.

Other than that, i can't say anything bad about the track. Its come a long way and definitely has that epic sound you've been wanting to show.

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks for the advice Joe. I'll try to add more bass freq overall. Will also redo the drums at some point and raise the volume a bit like you suggested.

Hope I can get some additional feedback to know if there's anything else that need fixing, apart from what was mentioned.

I'd like to complete this one at some point. ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE v8: check it on the first post!

-Additional tweaking and tuning on the beginning and on the ending.

-More bass presence and occurrences throughout the song, and also volume raise.

-Complete overhaul of the middle part: dropped the guitars entirely, added some new instruments & segments, changed the drums.

-Extended the track from 4:14 to to 5:36. Longest VG arrangement I've ever done...

It's been almost a year since I've started working on this, and I feel like I've learned quite a bit during that time.

A little more effort and I should be able to complete this ReMix soon.

Feedback, as usual, is most welcome. ;-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I clicked the v8 link. I listened. After about five seconds, all I could think was "holy sh*t." This mindset persisted well after the track was done playing.

Word: awesome. I never imagined the undersold Rockman & Forte could ever sound this amazing. Maybe it's just the fanboy in me wanting to start screaming at the top of my lungs and/or start crying when I hear my beloved series given proper musical treatment, but I have seriously got to give you a whole box of kudos for this.

Oh the things nostalgia will do to you. =)

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Arrangement's sounding pretty good, I like the percussive work especially, it keeps the mix moving :-)

My biggest gripe is the fact that your strings sound very muffled, like certain frequencies are getting lopped off by a limiter or EQing. It's most noticeable in the intro when your strings are most exposed, and as a result it felt like I was listening to the strings from behind a glass wall :whatevaa:

The piano sample feels a bit weak as well, and the delay/sequencing in general seems a bit too rigid, if you understand what I'm getting at.

Hm... I think this is pretty close but I would definitely look into what's causing the issues with strings and look into nabbing a more expressive piano sample. I know free ones exist that sound better than this, they just require a bit of hunting down.

Good luck!

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Hey man, i just noticed your update!

I like what i'm hearing. Its definitely got that epic orchestral feel to it. I agree with Emunator bout the strings though. It seems they could be clearer. I think just bumping up the high's on the EQ for them might solve that problem. I don't think the piano is too bad. I think maybe its too thick, if that makes sense, but only when its by itself. I wonder if when its playing without the drums if playing it at a higher octave might sound better. It sounds great though when the drums kick. Other than that, its a great update.

This sounds like it should be in a western during a showdown or something, lol. I really like where this is going and i can't wait to hear more!

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  • 3 months later...

UPDATE v9: check it on the first post!

Took me a long time to update this arrangement, but I finally got around to it. ;)

I've marked the track as mod-review and let the previous version up in first post if needed for reference regarding the concerns expressed previously.

Source is there as well.

EDIT: source link was down, but I've fixed it. Should be working now!

Thanks to Emunator for taking the time to listen and provide honest critique, and thanks to NintenJoe for his feedback and helpful suggestions.

All issues mentioned previously were adressed in this update, and I tried to push the arrangement a little further.

Here's the v9 log:

-Further tweaking on EQ, volume and velocities on all instruments to make things clearer.

-Removed redundant chords and improved harmonies and support instrumentation.

-Changed the lead piano sample, and worked on humanizing piano parts.

-Added a new piano solo, drum break, and instrument with its own parts (Oboe).

-Added a few more subtle references to the source whenever possible (and appropriate).

-Broke down the single-track String and Brass Section VSTs into full scale instrumentation (Violin, Viola, Cello, Double Basses and French Horns, Trombones, Trumpet).

Well, as far as my abilities go, this is as dramatic and/or epic as it gets.

Project now takes a whooping 40 tracks in the sequencer, and at this rate I'll need a new computer soon solely to handle this song. :D

I clicked the v8 link. I listened. After about five seconds, all I could think was "holy sh*t." This mindset persisted well after the track was done playing.

Word: awesome. I never imagined the undersold Rockman & Forte could ever sound this amazing. Maybe it's just the fanboy in me wanting to start screaming at the top of my lungs and/or start crying when I hear my beloved series given proper musical treatment, but I have seriously got to give you a whole box of kudos for this.

Oh the things nostalgia will do to you. =)

As a musician, I always strive to learn more and to get better in both composition and production, even tough I'm auditory impaired.

But the hardest thing to do remains being able to transmit emotion to people through your art.

I never imagined that one day, someone would actually feel that way about my music.

So, thank you for these words. That means a lot.

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I'll leave the bulk of this for Nutritious because he's unequivocally better at orchestral production and arrangement than myself or halc. However, I'll throw you a few criticisms that I noticed this time around:

The start of the song is really abrupt, I wish it would start with a second of silence so the first brass note isn't cut off on the front end.

The main brass lead you used is, unfortunately, a pretty weak sample. There's a significant lack of articulation to it, which further exposes the thin-sounding sample. It ultimately feels like every note is being played exactly the same way. Once you get more of an ensemble brass section going and there's several instruments playing the lead melody, it's better.

The piano is still a sore spot, and I think part of the problem is in the delay effect you're using, which combined with the sample makes it sound doubly-unrealistic. More velocity tweaking (especially on the arpeggios) is definitely necessary here, and even then I still think you could benefit from a better sample.

There's instances with your leads (both piano and brass) where they'll start off at a perfectly acceptable volume, but then as more and more instruments are layered on, it ends up getting drowned out and the lead no longer cuts through the soundscape like it should. Watch your levels when you start introducing lots of instruments and make sure your proper sounds are making it through to the forefront.

The transition into a more electronic beat is nice (though there's some high-end percussion in the electronic beat that sound shrill and piercing, I personally wish there was more punch in your kick drum and less high-frequency percussive elements.) In general I liked the mixing of those two genres, I think you handled it nicely. This is a very solid arrangement and definitely does justice to the source.

A lot of these issues alone might not be enough to stop it from passing the panel, but I don't think it's above the bar once all the issues are compounded together :\ I really hope Nutritious chimes in his two cents on this, I think he could be a lot more specific and helpful than me and halc, but hopefully this sets you in the right direction when you go to make touchups. Best of luck! :-)

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Ok so this isn't last night, but better late than never.

I agree a bit with emu on the intro, it does come in pretty suddenly. I see what you're going for, and it can work, but perhaps see if you can smooth it out a bit more.

Brass leads are pretty mechanical and get exposed when they're doing quick note changes. I don't know if that muted brass sample will be able to be tweaked to work since it's an attack. The lower brass (trombones) seem to be working better.

There's some good changeups on the arrangement side and creativity. Something's bothering me about the general soundscape, which I'm having trouble putting my finger on. It does sound like some high end freqs are missing, but in a sense, the general sound is a bit on the washed out/thin side. I'm not sure how better to describe it - could be reverb settings, general eq, samples (what are you using?), don't know.

Interesting switch up with the beat coming in. When exposed, the hihat-ish percussion at this point sounds kinda cheesy. Consider switching up the metal perc with some better samples and see if you can make the beat a bit more interesting.

Another note, I think you have a ton of room for some more orchestra dynamics. Be sure to automate expression (if you have ewql) or at least velocity/volume of strings and brass to keep things from feeling flat.

All I have time for at the moment. Youtube isn't playing nice so I can't compare to source, but I did recognize some of the themes from memory. Good luck with this.

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