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Dj Mokram

Rockman & Forte ~ New Beginning New Path

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Here's an arrangement of the '

' from Rockman & Forte (also known as Megaman & Bass).

It's an orchestral piece with some electronica elements, meant to be an overture, a prelude to a new journey.

Latest update: New Beginning New Path v9

Suggestions and constructive criticism are most welcome.

--------------------------------

Thanks to everyone who provided feedback and showed support so far. I've come a long way and learned a lot in the process.

There's still work to be done before I can sub this arrangement, but I just wanted to say: you guys rock! ;)

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I love the percussion *-*

But somehow the Horn gets fairly reptitive and the Orchestral Hit itselfs seems pretty Flat. Adding some warm and gentle strings to support these parts would help a bit.. I would like to listen to this piece in its final state, so keep up that work. :)

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I agree that some warm strings would help support the song. I think in the part with the building snare drum that some hits, like strings or orchestra, would help that section out as well.

Even adding a small flute or piano solo somewhere would help add some more dynamics to it.

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It's kind of quiet, but I don't know if that was the feel you were going for or not so it's all good.

Yeah this is some kind of a 'Begining' piece, as the new title hints.

And you know you can increase the volume in the player right?

Cause in my set, this sounds loud as hell! ;-)

But somehow the Horn gets fairly reptitive and the Orchestral Hit itselfs seems pretty Flat. Adding some warm and gentle strings to support these parts would help a bit

Roger that, thanks for you input! Also, note that there is absolutely no velocity, automation, or elaborate effects of any kind.

The mix is as raw as it gets... Well, maybe not THAT raw, but you get the picture.

I think in the part with the building snare drum that some hits, like strings or orchestra, would help that section out as well.

Even adding a small flute or piano solo somewhere would help add some more dynamics to it.

Good ideas, I'm on it. And with a lenght of 1:42, the mix could really use some variation parts I guess.

Thanks for the positive comment & support too. I got a lot of work to do.

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UPDATE: v.2

I added some instruments & new melodic parts.

Also, I'm currently learning a few things, to tweak the sound.

So I tested some stereo spatialization & surround on this one.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I got nearly 170 view, but only 3 people helping me improve it.

Thanks for your time. ;-)

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Hey, I didn't see this one before. Now that I have, I'll try to help you out :-P.

First thing I notice is that it is VERY mid-heavy. I believe it will help open up the soundscape greatly if you increase the high end in the mastering. I'd probably bring down the mids a little and bring the bass up a little (very little), as well.

The instruments you use are great, but I can't hear the thematic material over the texture. Try to mix it so the main melodies stick out better - it'll allow the listener to follow it better.

I'll be honest, this sounds like a great arrangement, not a remix, though. You've added an intro and some very nice elements to extend it a little bit, but there isn't enough play on the theme. Once the theme is introduced, you play it note for note, follow it by it's normal second part, then repeat again. Mind you, you do a great job changing a lot with the textures and orchestration, but it still feels like an arrangement to me, and OC is rather prejudice about that kind of thing.

I'd like to ask what sample set your using for your orchestration, because they sound awesome. The piano (I think it's a piano doing that arpeggiation texture in there) doesn't hold up to the rest of the instruments, though - otherwise, the samples are perfect.

The fade out is temporary, right? It sounds like an unfinished piece, right now - we need more! Give us more!

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@Gario: Thanks for your input, I modified my post-title accordingly.

I'll try to make good use of your technical advices too.

And of course, the fade out was temporary. After all, it's a WIP for a reason. ;-)

Feedback is most welcome, as I'm still learning a lot here.

So don't hesitate, I'm open to criticism. Thx!

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I love the original -- one of my favourite MM tracks -- so glad to see someone tackle it.

I agree with Gario that the melody just isn't clear enough. Move it up an octave and/or make it louder relative to the accompaniment.

I'm not liking the low brass (tuba?) around the 1:05 mark -- sounds kind of ... ponderous. But the overall texture of the rest of the piece is pretty rad. Keep it up!

I disagree that this isn't the kind of thing OCR is looking for. Yes, the melody is note-for-note from the original, but the genre is completely changed and you've added a lot of interesting harmonic stuff. (but then again, I'm 0/2 in submissions, so I may not be an authority ...)

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I disagree that this isn't the kind of thing OCR is looking for. Yes, the melody is note-for-note from the original, but the genre is completely changed and you've added a lot of interesting harmonic stuff. (but then again, I'm 0/2 in submissions, so I may not be an authority ...)

That's true, too... I'm just saying that it feels like it needs more variation with the structure of the music. I can't speak for the J's (0/1 myself :P) but I feel that will be the area they'd hammer you on. Did you listen to the comments the judges made on 1makes2's Spark Mandrill WIP (Post #35)? They made the same comments on that very issue (among other things), and it wasn't even as extreme in his case (personally, though, I liked his arrangement a lot; shame it hasn't been accepted yet :?).

...but it still feels like an arrangement to me, and OC is rather prejudice about that kind of thing.

I think I was mixing up a few things in the submission standards, there (I guess they aren't prejudice against arrangements...). I meant they're going to want more originality in the treatment of the themes, is all. :P

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@colinjstewart: Glad to see some Rockman luv!

Thank for pointing out these flaws. I wasn't sure myself. I'll work on it for next update.

@Gario: Were you aware of that remix? It's the same source as here.

It's an arrange, and it follows the main melody almost note by note too.

But It was great & therefore it got posted. Hope is not lost! ;-)

edit: 400 views! :shock:Feedback, where are you?

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Thanks for the pm, always a nice ego boost when ppl actually ask for _my_ feedback. :D

Okay, this is sounding pretty cool.

I once made the mistake of changing the lead melody rather than making a decent arrangement. You can make a great remix by just arranging stuff, not changing the theme melody at all, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm a bit concerned you haven't used enough source tho, see if you can use more of the backing from source and do something of that. I can be source-deaf at times, tho, so if you have used it (if there's source in over 50% of the track Larry's gonna be ok with it) you should be fine concerning source usage.

^blah blah

The sound is pretty good, but like it's been said, it's a little heavy on mids, especially in the intro. Or perhaps the mids are fine, you just need more weight and more clarity. Try dropping a wide band of mids just a dB or so, subtle should do it. Dropping tends to create less eq artifacts than raising, esepecially with cheap EQs.

The 1:04 part feels a little mechanical, see if you can give the brass more life there, make it more human. In the louder parts, the brass lead you have has a bit too slow attack to be heard well enough.

The percussion is dry and pretty cool, but there's something of a disparity between them and some of the other instruments that sound more distant... kind'a like this was recorded next to the percussion on stage. The lead should be more clear, that should be enough to break the disparity.

Then there's the staccato brass which sounds weak. Something about it just ain't right. It could be that it has too much highs and becomes too much of a foreground thing.

Also, there's a bit of a swing on the strings in the intro, dunno if that's intentional, but it doesn't sound like it is.

Gah, I'm having some trouble focusing, but I suppose this'll get you a bit further with the track. Watch out of repetition, this sounds more like half a remix than a complete one, adding a minute (of something that's not repetition of what you've already got) should easly solve that.

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Were you aware of that remix?

Look at the date - standards have changed since 2002. It's actually not the note-by-note thing that bothers me, either; it's the structure that you've got, there.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that remix, either - the whole 'rockman' vs 'megaman' naming thing throws me off a bit :P

I'm just saying that it feels like it needs more variation with the structure of the music.

followed by this...

Watch out of repetition, this sounds more like half a remix than a complete one, adding a minute (of something that's not repetition of what you've already got) should easly solve that.

...should hopefully make it clear what I'm talking about. The song's only two minutes atm, so adding something fresh here (e.g. not the source repetition, something of your own that is based on the source) will help this piece dramatically.

Hope this helps clear up what I'm saying :P

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UPDATE: v3. Check it on the first post!

Thanks Rozo & Gario for your precise analysis & no less precious advices!

v3 Update log fyi:

-Fixed previous issues (hopefully)

-Worked on EQ & freq, tweaked velocities

-Added new instruments & +1min of material

-Extended track to 3:24 (without looping)

Feeback is always more than welcome of course! ;-)

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The EQ sounds better, in general. The strings are still a bit muffled sounding to me, though; they could still use a boost in the highs a bit more (just the strings, though!).

I like the additional material - that was what I was looking for! The guitar comes in a bit too early for me, though... I was enjoying the lack of melody and was hoping for a little bit more of that before it came back. The guitar, while a nice addition (especially if it comes just a little bit later - but that's actually my personal taste, there), it pretty high-EQ-heavy. It's quite piercing, to be honest - it could use a reduction of the highs, there.

I just noticed this, but the panning seems a little heavy on the left side throughout a lot of the song (like 1:04 - 1:46, for example). Fix the balancing issues, there.

It sounds better, but I suspect it still isn't finished, yet - Finish the song already, damnit!

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UPDATE v4. Check the first post!

Basicaly trying to put down the song while fixing stuff wasn't the right approach.

So I decided to try and get the structure done first (intro-verse-bridge-break-etc).

Then when the whole map thing will be put down, I will concentrate on EQ & mastering.

v4 Log:

-I tried to adress the latest issues mentioned, while mainly focusing on song structure.

-I totally suppressed the distorition fx on the guitar, that was causing the piercing sound.

-Extended track to 3:48, lenghtened the break, tweaked the last part

-Thanks to Gario I've discovered that my PC mixer was panned 1 bar left.

So everything I'd made so far had that flaw. I would have never noticed otherwise, so thx!

Any constructive feedback would be helpful, as usual! ;-)

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UPDATE v4.

More cool stuff! I'm really starting to see where this is going to end, now. It feels like it needs another minute or so of music in order to close it properly (it's begging for an orchestral recap with the guitar playing off of the horns). In fact, it's almost torture now listening to it without that final part added to it. I like where the song is going now, though - it sounds very nice!

The mixing & EQing is quite nice - now that you've got that taken care of I think the whole mix could be turned up a little bit. I still feel that the panning is a bit hard, though (not like before, but at this point it may be personal taste in panning...).

Yup, not as much harrassment as normal - I'm finding fewer things to complain about (that's a good thing :razz:). Finish this and I'll be a happy person.

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UPDATE v5: Check it on the first post!

After surviving my computer's death, I finally managed to update this song.

v5 log:

-I added the final orchestral recap at the end, tweaked here and there.

-The final song structure is down, minor fixes and mastering are at hand.

I feel like this piece finally got the kind of epic 'Intro to a story' feeling I wanted to convey in the first place.

Anyway, enjoy the music ...& give feedback if you feel like it. ;-)

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this is a cool mix, I like it... i'm going to make this brief as its 2.00 in the morning and i'm tired... lol

At the moment the intro piano sounds a mechanical, mess with the velocities to get it sounding a little more realistic. Also, its too quiet, don't be afraid to boost the volume ;)

Production is your weak point here, the samples sound a little bland at the moment imo, i'd listen to some recent ocr mixes or game soundtracks to get a good idea of the sound you want to achieve.

its not quite there yet, but it will be, keep at it.

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All right, let's see how right Will is about the production. Too lazy to check source, and I've probably commented on that before.

The percussion stands out a little too much, I wouldn't hardpan the utensils (left) or the cool drums (right). The more glitchy sweepy percussion things would probably work better closer to the center too. As would the military drums. Watch it around there, btw, 1:34 and 1:39 are both places where it sounds like the highs are being shoved away. Dunno why, but I'm guessing it's something that seemed like a good idea at a time, sounds intentional (partially or completely). And sounds bad. :P

Leads around 2:00 are pretty soft compared to the backing. Then it went from trailer music to cowboy music. Okay, works for me. :D Again, percussion panning. I'd also see what could be done to humanize the guitar. the distorted drums don't really work with the rest of the instrumentation there imo.

Arrangement seems to work, I'd be fine with it. Will is right in that there are some production things you need to work on, but it's not as bad as I thought I thought it was. :D These samples should work, just gotta be treated right.

Oh and bonus points for the reverse(-like?) outro. :D

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Don't worry about the source usage, Rozo - he's pretty much got that down; not too much nor too little :-P. I have mentioned the hard panning on the percussion before, I think - it doesn't help what you've got going, djMokram. Center the percussion more.

The drums sound a little overcompressed when the guitar enters. That's not normally a bad thing, but in the context of this song it doesn't work... and the snare towards the end is a little too much in the front (and too dry). The production is good, but it still sounds like you could increase the upper EQ a bit to make the music clearer. The samples sound fine to me, though (except for that snare at the end, but I think with some adjustment you can make it work).

Hey, this song has an ending! Neat. It sounds like it sort of fizzles out, though - after that first horn recap I imagine it exploding in heroic glory... I guess we have different interpretations of the music there. Your song, though; I can't tell you to change it :).

Not much else to add... except it could use an increase in volume :-P. Keep it up - and I'm glad you've survived your great computer crash (although I'm still sad you couldn't participate in that ORC compo 8O).

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UPDATE v6: Check it on the first post!

Haven't updated in ages, so here goes something new.

Thanks to Willrock, Rozo & Gario for the precious feedback.

I've cut a lot of material, replaced some parts, kept the essential.

Now it's a bit different, but still quite the same.

Getting closer to the epic feeling of Megaman starting a new journey.

Enjoy & critique to your heart's content. ;-)

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I think the biggest problem this song has is production. Unfortunately, I don't really know what to tell you to help with that (especially the drumset about halfway through).

When it comes to arrangement, maybe it's just me, but it feels like it's missing a driving force. My suggestion: timpanis. They would give the whole thing a bit more cohesion, and the epicness factor would definitely improve.

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I'm glad you decided to remix this song.

I like v.5 because it is more suspenseful and powerful than v.6. If you want to continue your work from v.6., I advise you to listen to Mega Man X6 intro stage song. It has an epic feeling to and may give you some ideas.

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