Zelda Timeline

[Aninymouse]

ugh you guys made this thread didn't you

is it that time of year again seriously?

[Bleck]

62 Years Ago: Mario Sr. is born in Brooklyn. Along with his brother Luigi Sr., he performs jobs as a construction worker, where he often has to fight Donkey Kong Sr. and rescue a woman named Pauline. (Donkey Kong, Wrecking Crew, Game & Watch games)

41 Years Ago: Donkey Kong Jr. frees his father from Mario Sr.'s clutches. (Donkey Kong 2)

40 Years Ago: Mario Sr. discovers a network of pipes that leads to the Mushroom Kingdom. (Mario Bros.)

38 Years Ago: Mario Sr. and Pauline are wed and move to the Mushroom Kingdom.

36 Years Ago: Baby Bowser is born. (Yoshi's Island)

35 Years Ago: Mario Jr. and Luigi Jr. are born to Mario Sr. and Pauline. (Yoshi's Island)

34 Years Ago: Wario and Waluigi arrive from the Anti-Matter Mushroom Kingdom. (Yoshi's Island 2)

15-12 Years Ago: Mario Jr. and Luigi Jr. save the Mushroom Kingdom repeated times. (Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, etc)

11 Years Ago: Mario Jr. and Luigi Jr. have a falling apart and go their separate ways. (Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion)

9 Years Ago: Mario Jr. builds a castle to live with his bethroted, Princess Peach. He encounters Wario for the first time and fights him to a standstill. (Super Mario Land 2)

8 Years Ago: Luigi Jr., disguised as his brother, saves Princess Daisy. (Super Mario Land)

5 Years Ago: Mario Jr. finishes his doctorate and dedicates himself to philantrophy. (Dr. Mario, Mario Teaches Typing, Mario's Time Machine)

3 Years Ago: Mario Jr. goes missing in a mission to africa. Luigi Jr. comes out of retirement to rescue him. (Mario is Missing)

2 Years Ago: Mario Jr. and Luigi Jr. reconcile and decide to reform the team for charity competitions. (Mario Party, Mario Tennis, Mario Strikers, etc)

10 Years In the Future: Mario Jr. is called to a higher duty. He ascends to the heavens and is never seen again. (Mario Galaxy)

[Bleck]

Let's face it, Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, and Mario MAKE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. None of the games are related and its a humongous waste of creative energy to try and get them to fit together.

okay no uh star fox and metroid have very simple and clear cut timelines

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I'd like to see something on The Great Hylian Civil War. Too bad my idea for it sounds too Lord of The Rings.

[Aninymouse]

since you insist on inciting this topic

NOPE sorry try again

try this on for size boys

The main bad guy in FSA is Ganon in his pig form, where he gets his trident. Since Ganondorf didn't become Ganon until after OoT, it comes some time after that game, but before LoZ (where you kill him, finally). Probably after Twilight Princess...

In all the games after LoZ, Ganon is dead/being resurrected.

LoZ & AoL are linked, as are LttP & LA.

Something interesting: Ganon didn't show up in Phantom Hourglass, suggesting that his defeat in Wind Waker has removed him from that timeline. It's also possible that Ganon somehow traveled/was summoned into the Child Link dimension somehow after WW, though the exact timing of such an event is hard to place. Why? TP.

Twilight Princess fucks everything up. One, Ganon acts like he's never seen the Master Sword or Link (stupid) and you impale him in the stomach (and yet he comes back). Ganon starts out as a spirit, and Zant helps to bring him back to life. Ganon coming back to life isn't a big deal, but his stupid comments cast doubt on any theory. Maybe getting killed and reborn had affected his mind... but that sounds kinda lame.

[Strike911]

okay no uh star fox and metroid have very simple and clear cut timelines

Too bad StarFox is the type of game that should have kept a simple story. They put too much effort trying to make a story in StarFox. If there's a series that NEEDS a new game on a new/different timeline it's StarFox. They deviated too far from what made that the first two iterations of the series good in the first place. Start over. Please. Start over with the original 4 members, maybe throw in the Great Fox and Star Wolf. And yes, I'll say it: Krystal adds nothing to the franchise except a really strange caliber of furry loving fanboys that only further ruin the series. StarFox was most effective when its story was ridiculously simple, and didn't include overboard love interests, blah blah blah. And for crying out loud, it's a space flight shooter, not a ground based game. >_<

/OFFTOPIC

/RANT

[Abadoss]

since you insist on inciting this topic

NOPE sorry try again

try this on for size boys

The main bad guy in FSA is Ganon in his pig form, where he gets his trident. Since Ganondorf didn't become Ganon until after OoT, it comes some time after that game, but before LoZ (where you kill him, finally). Probably after Twilight Princess...

In all the games after LoZ, Ganon is dead/being resurrected.

LoZ & AoL are linked, as are LttP & LA.

Something interesting: Ganon didn't show up in Phantom Hourglass, suggesting that his defeat in Wind Waker has removed him from that timeline. It's also possible that Ganon somehow traveled/was summoned into the Child Link dimension somehow after WW, though the exact timing of such an event is hard to place. Why? TP.

Twilight Princess fucks everything up. One, Ganon acts like he's never seen the Master Sword or Link (stupid) and you impale him in the stomach (and yet he comes back). Ganon starts out as a spirit, and Zant helps to bring him back to life. Ganon coming back to life isn't a big deal, but his stupid comments cast doubt on any theory. Maybe getting killed and reborn had affected his mind... but that sounds kinda lame.

Well... the thread is about the Zelda timeline...

I didn't know much about FSA and FA because I couldn't play them. However, FS should be after MC, regardless of where FSA ends up. That much I do know. After all, FSA is not a remake of FS, from what I know. LttP was actually made as a prequel to the original LoZ, thus I place it where I have.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for why LA goes after LttP and not the Oracle games.

As for TP messing things up, Ganon's like that in every game, pretty much. You stab Ganon in the forehead in OoT and, in TP itself, his first execution was botched when he got skewered and didn't die. The guy can take a lot of fatal wounds, it seems.

[Battousai]

Triforce is the only person whom I will listen to regarding grand unifying Zelda theories. So someone needs to get him to come here and post it.

[Overflow]

Twilight Princess fucks everything up. One, Ganon acts like he's never seen the Master Sword or Link (stupid) and you impale him in the stomach (and yet he comes back). Ganon starts out as a spirit, and Zant helps to bring him back to life. Ganon coming back to life isn't a big deal, but his stupid comments cast doubt on any theory. Maybe getting killed and reborn had affected his mind... but that sounds kinda lame.

But... if Ganon was executed/sent to the twilight realm, then it makes sense that he never saw Link or the Master Sword, since he was ratted out by young Zelda. Plus, since he possessed the Triforce of Power, he could probably become a spirit if he wants. Actually, he does, after you *MINOR SPOILER* defeat his Boar Form. */SPOILER*. In WW, he's looking for Zelda's descendants to exact his revenge, so it actually makes sense.

[Aninymouse]

But... if Ganon was executed/sent to the twilight realm, then it makes sense that he never saw Link or the Master Sword, since he was ratted out by young Zelda. Plus, since he possessed the Triforce of Power, he could probably become a spirit if he wants. Actually, he does, after you *MINOR SPOILER* defeat his Boar Form. */SPOILER*. In WW, he's looking for Zelda's descendants to exact his revenge, so it actually makes sense.

You know... I NEVER thought of it like that. I mean it. Thanks for that. That actually makes a lot of sense.

What doesn't make sense is how Ganon exists in two timelines at once, since he's the same guy in all the games, unlike Link & Zelda.

I actually didn't have FS on my list at all, since I know nothing about it. But yes, I have seen it on many lists after Minnish Cap.

As for LA after LttP... LA was hinted at being a continuation of the same Link's story. The game's page at wikipedia even flat out states this, though they don't reference the hint (and I can't remember exactly what it was, except that it had to do with LttP's ending).

As for why I put LttP after AoL? Well, Ganon's officially dead at the end of LoZ. He's still dead in LttP. Makes sense.

[Abadoss]

You know... I NEVER thought of it like that. I mean it. Thanks for that. That actually makes a lot of sense.

What doesn't make sense is how Ganon exists in two timelines at once, since he's the same guy in all the games, unlike Link & Zelda.

I actually didn't have FS on my list at all, since I know nothing about it. But yes, I have seen it on many lists after Minnish Cap.

As for LA after LttP... LA was hinted at being a continuation of the same Link's story. The game's page at wikipedia even flat out states this, though they don't reference the hint (and I can't remember exactly what it was, except that it had to do with LttP's ending).

As for why I put LttP after AoL? Well, Ganon's officially dead at the end of LoZ. He's still dead in LttP. Makes sense.

Perhaps the Link in the Oracle games is the same as in the LoZ and following. That could still put LA after the Oracle games.

Ganon dies quite a bit in the series, so he's officially dead at the start of many of them, including TP (although, it's implied he'll be coming back). That's the whole cycle. As far as why Ganon is in both timelines, think of it this way. Ganon was sealed away at the end of OoT in Adult Link's world. He escapes and wreaks havoc in WW's world. In Child Link's world, Ganon hasn't been sealed away yet. All that happens is that Link and Zelda rat him out and he gets sentenced to execution. The job is botched and the events of TP occur. He exists in both times, the future sealed away by the sages that Link awoke in the adult world and the past with a botched executed with the sages that were already there. That's why he's in both.

[friendlyHunter]

What doesn't make sense is how Ganon exists in two timelines at once, since he's the same guy in all the games, unlike Link & Zelda.

Err... don't ALL the characters from OOT's time period exist in both timelines? Only now am I confused =O

[Overflow]

As far as why Ganon is in both timelines, think of it this way. Ganon was sealed away at the end of OoT in Adult Link's world. He escapes and wreaks havoc in WW's world. In Child Link's world, Ganon hasn't been sealed away yet. All that happens is that Link and Zelda rat him out and he gets sentenced to execution. The job is botched and the events of TP occur. He exists in both times, the future sealed away by the sages that Link awoke in the adult world and the past with a botched executed with the sages that were already there. That's why he's in both.

You know, I also had a weird revelation a while ago too. Doesn't seem odd that in both timelines, Ganon is sealed away in a "dark world" by sages? The twilight realm could be considered a dark world, couldn't it?

But I guess in the Adult Link timeline, Ganon actually did get into the sacred realm and transform it into the Dark world, once he touched the triforce(That's the point where Zelda and Link are chosen to wield the other thirds), but in Child Link's timeline, he never has this chance. That means that LttP HAS to have happened in Adult Link's timeline, otherwise there'd be no dark world to explore. (Also, the legend of the seven sages connects the Ganon's imprisonment in Adult Link's timeline, since there was only six in TP.) I know Gametrailers claims that LttP happens in Child Link's timeline, but that can't be, because of the presence of the dark world.

[Ferret]

It was all a dream!

[Abadoss]

You know, I also had a weird revelation a while ago too. Doesn't seem odd that in both timelines, Ganon is sealed away in a "dark world" by sages? The twilight realm could be considered a dark world, couldn't it?

But I guess in the Adult Link timeline, Ganon actually did get into the sacred realm and transform it into the Dark world, once he touched the triforce(That's the point where Zelda and Link are chosen to wield the other thirds), but in Child Link's timeline, he never has this chance. That means that LttP HAS to have happened in Adult Link's timeline, otherwise there'd be no dark world to explore. (Also, the legend of the seven sages connects the Ganon's imprisonment in Adult Link's timeline, since there was only six in TP.) I know Gametrailers claims that LttP happens in Child Link's timeline, but that can't be, because of the presence of the dark world.

In TP, Ganon never reached the Sacred Realm to touch the Triforce, that's true. However, it says in the sage's story about the execution, that the Triforce of Power chose him irregardless, in some sort of ironic twist of fate. If one piece goes to Ganon without him touching it, then it's conceivable that the other two pieces went to Link and Zelda (or their descendants, genetically, spiritually, or otherwise) as well.

As far as the seventh sage, there's still an explanation. Remember that, in the future, Adult Link has to awaken the six sages because the world, or at least Hyrule, has been ruled by Ganon for seven years and he made sure that the six temples were corrupted, thus blocking the awakening of the sages as they were. Link's friends step into those roles because they are best suited for them, but I don't think they are the original sages that came before. This same idea happens in WW, when Ruto and Mido (although, I'm not sure why he's taken over for Saria except perhaps she didn't fair so well during Ganon's return from being sealed away) transfer their powers as sages to Medli and Makar, respectively. Without Ganon having the necessary power to block the sages from awakening, there's no need for Link's friends to ascend or be reincarnated as the sages. They would retain their original forms, the forms shown in TP and depicted in the beginning of LttP.

The seventh sage, would also retain his/her form. Zelda also "awoke" as a sage, although with certainly less fuss than the others. She filled that role which had become vacant in Adult Link's time. It seems that only Rauru had remained a sage, probably because there's never mentioned a Temple of Light in OoT. Although, the Temple of Time remains fairly uncorrupted, with the exception of Ganon's barging into the Sacred Realm. Probably made it easier for Zelda to awaken. Who knows?

[Kureejii Lea]

It seems that only Rauru had remained a sage, probably because there's never mentioned a Temple of Light in OoT.

Yes, there is. When Link awakens as an adult, Rauru says they're in a chamber of the Temple of Light. Apparently it's in the Sacred Realm itself.

[Abadoss]

Yes, there is. When Link awakens as an adult, Rauru says they're in a chamber of the Temple of Light. Apparently it's in the Sacred Realm itself.

Okay, that works. I must have missed that. In which case, temple not corrupted, sage remains active. Thanks.

[Native Jovian]

Can someone explain to me why it's taken as a given that the timeline splits in OoT?

Seriously, it seems pretty straightforward to me. Link goes back and forth through time to do his thing in OoT. When he's done, he goes back to his time as a child, and leaves Hyrule so he won't get caught in the crossfire of Ganondorf's takeover/his own actions as an adult. Majora's Mask shows what he's doing during this period (or, at least, part of it). When enough time has passed that the events of OoT are over, he's free to return to Hyrule and do whatever. At what point does this result in two separate timeliens? (For the record, yes, this means that during the Adult Link events of OoT, there's another Link out wandering somewhere outside Hyrule. That's time travel for ya.)

I view it like this: just like OoT is the definitive beginning of the Zelda timeline, WW is the definitive end. At some point, for whatever reason, Link fails to show up and save the day, which results in Hyrule being flooded, etc etc, and that's the end of that (barring stuff like Phantom Hourglass, anyway). Everything else, with Ganon being killed and reborn and sealed away and released and whatnot, all that happens some time between OoT and WW. No need for messy multiple branching timelines.

I honestly haven't played the majority of the Zelda series (the only ones I've played to completion are OoT, MM, LA, and WW) so I can't speak for some of the games, but it seems to me that it HAS to go OoT/MM -> LttP -> LoZ -> WW. At the end of OoT Ganon is sealed in the Sacred Realm, which his evilness turns into the Dark World (and where he's trying to escape from on LttP). In LoZ he's running around in Hyrule again, so that has to be some time later. WW's at the end for reasons I've already mentioned. LA can go pretty much anywhere -- all we really know is that it's not a unique, separate Link, because reference is made to "after his adventure" or something like that.

[Overflow]

Yes, there is. When Link awakens as an adult, Rauru says they're in a chamber of the Temple of Light. Apparently it's in the Sacred Realm itself.

Hmm, that works.

Something that was never explained was what happened to the Master sword after Adult Link defeated Ganon. When he goes back in time, it's to before he ever pulled out the Master sword, so he just leaves it in the Temple of Time, which explainss why it's still there in TP. But in WW, it's in Hyrule Castle. I suppose it's reasonable to assume the Adult Link left the sword behind in the future, and Zelda brought it into the Castle.

But another thing: If the Master sword had never been pulled in Child Link's timeline, then that means that (As of now) TP is the first time the master sword is removed. Wouldn't that effectively open the door to the sacred realm?

P.S.: I can't remember if TP ends with Link returning the Master sword. Confirm/deny?

[Bleck]

At what point does this result in two separate timeliens?

There are two separate timelines at this point because time continues to go on from the 'future' in OoT. The time when Castle Town is all destroyed and whatnot? That doesn't all just cease to exist.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Can someone explain to me why it's taken as a given that the timeline splits in OoT?

Seriously, it seems pretty straightforward to me. Link goes back and forth through time to do his thing in OoT. When he's done, he goes back to his time as a child, and leaves Hyrule so he won't get caught in the crossfire of Ganondorf's takeover/his own actions as an adult. Majora's Mask shows what he's doing during this period (or, at least, part of it). When enough time has passed that the events of OoT are over, he's free to return to Hyrule and do whatever. At what point does this result in two separate timeliens? (For the record, yes, this means that during the Adult Link events of OoT, there's another Link out wandering somewhere outside Hyrule. That's time travel for ya.)

I view it like this: just like OoT is the definitive beginning of the Zelda timeline, WW is the definitive end. At some point, for whatever reason, Link fails to show up and save the day, which results in Hyrule being flooded, etc etc, and that's the end of that (barring stuff like Phantom Hourglass, anyway). Everything else, with Ganon being killed and reborn and sealed away and released and whatnot, all that happens some time between OoT and WW. No need for messy multiple branching timelines.

I honestly haven't played the majority of the Zelda series (the only ones I've played to completion are OoT, MM, LA, and WW) so I can't speak for some of the games, but it seems to me that it HAS to go OoT/MM -> LttP -> LoZ -> WW. At the end of OoT Ganon is sealed in the Sacred Realm, which his evilness turns into the Dark World (and where he's trying to escape from on LttP). In LoZ he's running around in Hyrule again, so that has to be some time later. WW's at the end for reasons I've already mentioned. LA can go pretty much anywhere -- all we really know is that it's not a unique, separate Link, because reference is made to "after his adventure" or something like that.

Until I rememberd the Arbiter Grounds, I thought that Twilight Princess was part of the Adult Link timeline and that A Link to The Past was somewhere after that at some point. I thought that Wind Waker followed Majora's Mask what with Link changing the flow of time so much in Termina that hundreds of years had past in Hyrule.

I like these timeline things though not just because they try to connect 'em all together, but because it adds so much context and backstory to the series as a whole that I can appreciate it much more. I'm a huge lore nerd, so it's all cool.

[Scufo]

There are two separate timelines at this point because time continues to go on from the 'future' in OoT. The time when Castle Town is all destroyed and whatnot? That doesn't all just cease to exist.

Also, I'm pretty sure what's-his-face...Iwata? Confirmed it at some point.

EDIT: It was Eiji Aonuma.

[Native Jovian]

There are two separate timelines at this point because time continues to go on from the 'future' in OoT. The time when Castle Town is all destroyed and whatnot? That doesn't all just cease to exist.

Well, sure. I'm not saying that Hyrule Castle Town and whatnot just magically rebuilt itself, but where does the split come from? HCT was trashed for a few years, then Link came and saved the day, and presumably they rebuilt it after that.

I thought that Wind Waker followed Majora's Mask what with Link changing the flow of time so much in Termina that hundreds of years had past in Hyrule.

Ha! That's actually a really cool idea, even if it doesn't quite work out.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Well after playing Twilight Princess and reading through all the lore(and damnit I wish I could find my Gamecube, although I'd buy a Wii just for this game), I see now how that wouldn't work.

It was a theory I think I read through a few years back, but now that I put it in context, it would make sense that Ganon would be seeking out girls with blond hair and pointy ears in The Wind Waker being that he swore vengeance on the descendants of Link and Zelda, whereas the Ganon in Twilight Princess was just out for the kingdom.

I think however that the triforce also held power over the fabric of time and was the only constant in any parallel dimensions. When Ganondorf split the triforce in OoT, not only did it cause a rift in time, it bound him Zelda and Link as constants in each timeline. Or something like that...

[Bleck]

Well, sure. I'm not saying that Hyrule Castle Town and whatnot just magically rebuilt itself, but where does the split come from? HCT was trashed for a few years, then Link came and saved the day, and presumably they rebuilt it after that.

uh no see that's the thing; he didn't

Because Zelda sent Link back in time, he basically didn't exist there anymore. In the past, Ganondorf is executed for his crimes, but in the future, he's trapped in the Sacred Realm. When he busts out, in the future, there's no Link to save everybody, so the gods totally flood the place.