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Theophany

Final Fantasy 6 Overture *Submitted*

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~Final Submission~

Thanks for all the help, guys. Here is the final submission:

img.php?fid=410

I'm deleting all the older WIPs.

~Final WIP Update: Levels, Compression and EQ Feedback Needed~

First of all, thanks to everyone who has been listening to this and giving feedback, I think it's become a much stronger and better mix because of the feedback I've been getting. I really appreciate the time everyone took to listen and give feedback. Anyway, on to the mix...

Changes:

- Removed the metallic grating sound from the rim glass samples, but now I think I need to raise the levels a bit...

- Added a brief stint of wind effects at beginning, but it kind of feels inappropriate when it's the only sound effect in there. I was trying to bring back the feeling of crossing the ice fields of Narshe, but I'm considering taking it out to avoid a lolwut response by the judges

- Reduced muddiness of piano chords (?) The issue was some intense EQ I did on it in trying to get a certain sound.

- Made the ending mezzo aria climax more intense with revamped chorus, added more gong smashes, horn tweaks, slight timing changes

Comments welcome about the final changes (especially the climax).

Otherwise, it's time to talk about compression, levels and EQ, and my ears aren't too trained at this. Part of me wants the climax to be louder, but when I crank the volume up on my headphones it's pretty loud/powerful as is, but I guess I'm thinking *comparatively* to the rest of the mix. My questions are:

- Do the loud/climactic parts feel powerful enough to your ears? Do they come off sounding a little empty?

- Is there any harshness / level / EQ stuff that sounds off to you? Piano too loud at certain parts? Strings muddy?

- Does the mix sound too low to you?

- Ideas on remedies?

I was planning on doing a slight EQ to the climax to make sure the strings come through, since the chorus gets loud, but now I'm thinking it might not be needed. Any final thoughts before I make the changes and post the final submission for download?

~Semi-final Update~

Alright. It's 6AM, and this is WIP3. I added a climax, added compression, and by some miracle it's actually under 6MB with decent quality VBR, and it actually sounds good. It is, however, 6:55. Is that a record? What's the longest track on OCR right now? I've been through many different versions of this, but in the end I use the mezzo whatever bridge from the aria as a standalone climax, without going into Celes' theme (sorry man). I don't know why, but neither version of Celes' aria theme worked with the mix. It just felt sappy and wrong, and rushed, and it made me cringe at the thought of submitting. As it is, though, I'm pretty happy with the way this turned out.

So what do you guys think?

Submit it?

Feedback?

~2nd Update~

I haven't made any progress on this mix since this past weekend; I'm putting it on hold until I finish my Lufia 2 mix, which I've been working on for almost 2 months. Hopefully you guys will get to see the Lufia wip this weekend, and after that I'll attempt to finish what is becoming the ever larger task of finalizing this remix. Hopefully I'll get it finished sometime this month...

Jason

~1st Update~

Well, I'm pretty sure nobody thought I was going to do this for the intro:

However, I still have not decided what the climax/ending is going to be. I have thought about using Celes' melody from the Opera House, but more and more, I'm leaning towards using the two horrifying chords of the title screen and then leading to an outro. I think it would contrast the "pretty" middle section somewhat nicely, and Celes' opera melody might be a bit too sentimental in terms of a climax.

What do you guys think?

I still don't have a 'proper' transition to the middle section from the intro, it's a little abrupt. I don't have any ideas on how to bridge them yet, but I get the feeling it's a small detail that will just make the transition 'work'. It could even be a simple matter of timing. Let me know if you feel there needs to be a transition.

The same goes for the final section. I have a stock transition there now, but it's not sitting 100% with me at the moment. Still, I wanted to share the updated mix to get more feedback on what I've got so far.

~Original Post~

This is still an early WIP, but feedback is definitely needed. The source material for this WIP is taken from the FF6 Overture, but it's a pretty liberal arrangement, so I'm not sure it would be accepted. If you guys have ideas where to take this mix or other themes to incorporate, either from the source track or from another track in the game, please share, because I've kind of run into a wall. I like the sound, but I'm not sure it's an ocr remix yet.

There's a random click at the end of the song. I think it's the mp3 encoder I used : /

Special thanks to the user who started the ocr wip storage site on firelash. I would take a remix request from him any day : )

Here's the original track, the source appears around :44:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYSUJ7stN9k&feature=PlayList&p=06AB6E3F68E2F48D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31

I know it's been around five years since anything by Theophany got posted. I'd say the other members did most of the work during the year or so we were actively trying to remix stuff, but since I'm currently the only one left interested in remixing, I'm trying to start up fresh for now. I'm kind of a n00b, but I've been doing my best to level up lately in the hope of providing ocr listeners with pure audio sex. I'd also like to offer my sincere apologies for the incident with the majora's mask remix. I hope my efforts on future remixes can make up for it and show our love for ocr through solid contributions to the community...

Please don't hate us?

Jason

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I kinda like this, actually... Overture from FF6 is great and can always use some lovin'.

Overall, it's a little quiet for me? I understand it's probably supposed to be a quiet piece, it's just a personal pet peeve to listen to music comfortably at one volume, then bam, have to jack it up or down for another track.

I really like this interpretation. I wouldn't mind a little more dramatic-ness thrown into it, particularly towards the end. More violins. More.. something? I'm not sure. And the piano end from 3:40 onwards didn't really work for me. Seemed out of place? It was like, it picked up, then died... :x

I can't wait to see what you do with this.

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Hmm... from a fellow newb, this is what I think. So keep in mind that there are definitely more qualified people to give advice :)

I like what you have so far. Seems very well mixed to my ears, very pretty. However, the synth/bell type thing you have carrying your main source theme is more of a background. The strings stand out more to me, and I wouldn't have really picked up the theme if I hadn't been listening specifically for it. This almost feels like the background for a solo instrument. I couldn't tell you what, maybe the piano you have at the very end, perhaps, but something needs to "take charge"? If that makes any sense.

Your source material is awesome, and you can probably use more of it than just the two-measure bit you pulled. Can't wait to hear the update :)

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Super fast feedback :grin:

Otaku: Yes... the whole thing needs a massive compression job to boost the overall volume, I think. I think my tentative plan is to continue with the piano and try to make it try to build up in to the more dramatic opera melody later in the overture, maybe with the strings supporting it. I've even thought about throwing a choral feel into the mix when the opera melody shows up, but I haven't quite figured out how to make it gel yet. I just kind of have this vague blurry section floating around in my head...

Artemis: Yeah, the backround insturment is glass rim sample. I agree with you, I think the mix needs more direction...

Thanks for listening and posting!

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Very emotional, lots of detail in the strings and places. :D

I'm not very familiar with source after one listen but I have a feeling the harp/piano backing alone won't cut it on the judges panel. Dunno how much the strings and other instruments use the source tho, but if there's a risk there's not enough source, there's plenty to take from the source.

The bass is the only instrument I have a problem with, it just doesn't sound right to me to have an occasional note like that in a track like this. Cello, perhaps, or low marimba, but a bass like that doesn't sound right to me.

Good luck with this, guys, it's a beautiful track.

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thanks for listening, man :grin: i was having some ideas yesterday on how to include other sections from the source and keep the mood i have going. hopefully i'll post an update this weekend, since it's a 3-day holiday in Canada. i definitely don't think this would make it passed the judges panel as is. stay tuned and thanks for the great feedback guys!

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UPDATED:

- Intro added

- More source material added

- Paired bass with piano (Rozovian, I agreed with you about the bass after I thought about it)

- Final buildup

- No climax/ending yet

- Transitions between sections kind of shaky at the moment

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I don't know if anyone else will agree with me, but I think this is pretty damn awesome.

You already mentioned some of the things missing (transitions, ending, etc.), so I'll just comment on a couple of things. The intro is great stuff; really powerful. I guess the thing about it is that the song never really returns to that triumphal feeling. I would consider making that the climax, or reintegrating it somewhere later on.

The feeling for the track is nice, and it is pretty consistent. Add a climax, work on your transitions, and maybe reuse some of the same style used in the intro later in the track (like the other material in it is building up to that), and I think you've got a pretty nice track here. Great work, and I look forward to an update.

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Thanks man! Yeah, the climax is going to have the same intensity as the intro. I am still not decided on which melody I'm going to use for that climax though...

Hopefully the next update will be up sometime this weekend.

Stay tuned...

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I'd actually have to disagree with you, and say that Celes' opera house melody - to me, at least - would serve you better as a climax here, especially if you do it in the same style as the intro. But that's completely my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

I've got nothing for you on the transitions though. :-(

Aside from those two issues, though, it's pretty good - loving it!

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I think you're right, actually... I think I'm going to take the material from Celes' Aria di Mezzo Carattere. I checked the source out again and was like O RLY hell yes = )

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~Semi-final Update~

Alright. It's 6AM, and this is WIP3. I added a climax, added compression, and by some miracle it's actually under 6MB with decent quality VBR, and it actually sounds good. It is, however, 6:55. Is that a record? What's the longest track on OCR right now? I've been through many different versions of this, but in the end I use the mezzo whatever bridge from the aria as a standalone climax, without going into Celes' theme (sorry man). I don't know why, but neither version of Celes' aria theme worked with the mix. It just felt sappy and wrong, and rushed, and it made me cringe at the thought of submitting. As it is, though, I'm pretty happy with the way this turned out.

So what do you guys think?

Submit it?

Title recommendations?

img.php?fid=382

Feedback?

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So you sent me a link and I've listened twice now. Here are my very n00bish thoughts:

The piano through 0:50 seems a little muddy, however I think I have a long-term bias against that particular octave, and it always sounds muddy no matter what's going on down there. If I were editing it myself, I'd declutter some of those chords and make it sound smoother and simpler. It happens again for a few seconds at around 4:38, during the part that's from Draco's solo.

The next few minutes, up until the bridge-like part are very pretty, but it seems to build really slowly, especially with the higher intensity and pace of the climax of the song.

Overall, I love the seriousness and simplicity with which you interpreted the original pieces. The strings are nothing short of gorgeous and I think they are very well-mixed - their levels are great and I hope you don't change them. I especially love the jump in volume during the climax, because it kind of reminded me of both the LOtR score (which was awesome as far as I'm concerned) and Samuel Barber's volume-insanity in most of his symphonies, in particular Adagio for Strings.

I LOVED the addition of the chorus at around 5:50, although I really, really wanted it to be more dramatic than it was. I would call it a yearning, even. :shock:

Oh, and I totally understand not going into Celes' theme. It's pretty and all, but also overused, and it wrongfully overshadows the other parts of the opera, which you have focused on here with great results.

Okay, so I guess that's all I have so far. I think it's beautiful overall, and I hope it's accepted by the powers that be.

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Wow. Thanks for the great feedback. I'll mess around with those muddy chords (though I kinda like their muddiness) and see if I can't make the chorus a little more dramatic, though that's been a really tricky section for me. It's funny you mention LOTR, because I've been basing my ideas on how to resolve between sections almost exclusively on Howard Shore', and it probably shows right before the mezzo part with the solo flute. Practically ripped straight out of Return of the King. I'm glad you agree about Celes. My original take on Celes' theme was going to go the Wagner Taunhauser (Pilgrim's Chorus) route, but I think you nailed my thoughts exactly as to why I was just feeling kind of "DO NOT WANT" about it. Plus, it put the mix over 7 minutes, and way over 6 MB...

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Very nice. Good job on avoiding mechanical-sounding piano passages.

I agree about the muddy piano chords, unless you absolutely want that muddiness. You may be able to change it by moving some of the material up an octave or by removing some of the inner voices.

There's an odd sort of metallic scratching that starts at about 0:54; it seems to be associated with the running piano line in the background. Is this an intentional percussion effect, or is it an artifact from the samples?

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I think it's from the rim/water glass sample, most likely. I'm not sure what to do about it at the moment, but I think I could take the sample into Audition and try and at least lower the metallic feedback, though it's probably the sound of the person's finger running across the glass. I kind of like it but it doesn't really jive with the rest of the soundscape.

I think I changed the EQ on the piano to get the certain sound I was going for, and it may be the reason for the muddiness. I'll mess around with it for the final update and experiment with the octaves as well, since I transposed the chords down from the original composition because I wanted a more thunderous sound. I still want that sound, but we'll see if I can't get the muddiness out.

Thanks for the extra input :grin:

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~Final WIP Update: Levels, Compression and EQ Feedback Needed~

First of all, thanks to everyone who has been listening to this and giving feedback, I think it's become a much stronger and better mix because of the feedback I've been getting. I really appreciate the time everyone took to listen and give feedback. Anyway, on to the mix...

Changes:

- Removed the metallic grating sound from the rim glass samples, but now I think I need to raise the levels a bit...

- Added a brief stint of wind effects at beginning, but it kind of feels inappropriate when it's the only sound effect in there. I was trying to bring back the feeling of crossing the ice fields of Narshe, but I'm considering taking it out to avoid a lolwut response by the judges

- Reduced muddiness of piano chords (?) The issue was some intense EQ I did on it in trying to get a certain sound.

- Made the ending mezzo aria climax more intense with revamped chorus, added more gong smashes, horn tweaks, slight timing changes

img.php?fid=397

Comments welcome about the final changes (especially the climax).

Otherwise, it's time to talk about compression, levels and EQ, and my ears aren't too trained at this. Part of me wants the climax to be louder, but when I crank the volume up on my headphones it's pretty loud/powerful as is, but I guess I'm thinking *comparatively* to the rest of the mix. My questions are:

- Do the loud/climactic parts feel powerful enough to your ears? Do they come off sounding a little empty?

- Is there any harshness / level / EQ stuff that sounds off to you? Piano too loud at certain parts? Strings muddy?

- Does the mix sound too low to you?

- Ideas on remedies?

I was planning on doing a slight EQ to the climax to make sure the strings come through, since the chorus gets loud, but now I'm thinking it might not be needed. Any final thoughts before I make the changes and post the final submission for download?

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up to 0:56 is good, piano is a bit loud though

0:56-2:44 is beautiful. new instrument at 2:44 is a welcome addition.

in the 3:50ish area with the string swells, the piano and other instruments should be a bit louder, the strings get really loud while everything else is so low.

5:18 it gets pretty loud (but not too loud). i don't think you need to go louder; this track already has a pretty wide dynamic range.

6:18, piano is too loud imo

also, cool song :nicework:

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This is actually pretty cool, but I can imagine the judges rejecting it just because of the piano samples. The rest of the samples seem below average, but passable. Just try to get pianosamples with clearer sound.

iirc, some of the samples of http://hammersound.net/ are actually very decent. Or you could ask someone else to do the piano part :).

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This is actually pretty cool, but I can imagine the judges rejecting it just because of the piano samples. The rest of the samples seem below average, but passable. Just try to get pianosamples with clearer sound.

iirc, some of the samples of http://hammersound.net/ are actually very decent. Or you could ask someone else to do the piano part :).

Thanks! :D I removed the EQ on the piano samples, which I think that was the major problem. I was also browsing hammersound for awhile today, but I didn't find any samples that fit the feeling of the mix better than the current soundfont I'm using (though it's also from hammersound). If this gets rejected by the judges, I'll have to do a more extensive search and try to find some better samples, or maybe just ask someone to do the piano part like you said :) That would be really cool, actually. But if you have some sample recommendations, I'll definitely look into them, I'm still pretty new to production.

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