Modding consoles = Jail time

[Level 99]

I just think that the time, money, and other resources would be better suited towards apprehending bigger criminals, not to take this on a tangent, but yeah, I feel bad for the guy if all he was doing was modding consoles or fixing red rings.

Modding is a necessary moral ambiguity which honestly pushes companies like Sony and Microsoft to improve their own methods of production, see new programming talent, and fix possible exploitation holes that could otherwise be used for other means besides modding (if there's a software hole being used for modding, you can bet someone will figure out how to use it for much more malicious purposes. I'm sure there was/will be a hole in the PS3/360's software that could allow someone to get in and steal credit card info from people's accounts when they buy more games or membership time). Sure, what I'm saying sounds like it's reaching for the purest example of modifications, and there are few people that white-knight-like who would mod. As one would say, there is a pretty well-known connection between modding and piracy. But I guess the old adage "you gotta take the good with the bad" would suffice here.

[Schwaltzvald]

Except the bad seems to involve getting reamed in the ass to the fullest extent of the law...

I would like to see how the case turns out in court if and when it comes to that.

[Level 99]

I would like to see how the case turns out in court if and when it comes to that.

Agreed, keep me informed if I forget this ever existed.

[SoulinEther]

I just think that the time, money, and other resources would be better suited towards apprehending bigger criminals, not to take this on a tangent, but yeah, I feel bad for the guy if all he was doing was modding consoles or fixing red rings.

Modding is a necessary moral ambiguity which honestly pushes companies like Sony and Microsoft to improve their own methods of production, see new programming talent, and fix possible exploitation holes that could otherwise be used for other means besides modding (if there's a software hole being used for modding, you can bet someone will figure out how to use it for much more malicious purposes. I'm sure there was/will be a hole in the PS3/360's software that could allow someone to get in and steal credit card info from people's accounts when they buy more games or membership time). Sure, what I'm saying sounds like it's reaching for the purest example of modifications, and there are few people that white-knight-like who would mod. As one would say, there is a pretty well-known connection between modding and piracy. But I guess the old adage "you gotta take the good with the bad" would suffice here.

You hit a lot of the points I was thinking about while considering what to post. Especially the bold part.

A solution to this problem (chiefly: DMCA violation) might be to create a way to sideload apps... but restricting these sideloaded apps from accessing the internet, optical drive, some parts of the hard drive etc. so that these apps can't (easily) be created to hack or allow the execution of "backup" games while still giving regular people a way to make/use homebrew apps for these consoles. But that would undermine the online app/game stores for each company's console (or at least create competition for their own platform), and .. thus probably not be in their financial interest.

..blast it all. There is no solution.. except to create a competing console/platform. Good luck.

[Drack]

This is why I disagree with laws like the DMCA that try to lock you out of your own property.

If you BUY it, you should have the right to tinker with it!

That being said, I know that mods often allow piracy as well as homebrew and region-unlocking. Piracy is clearly illegal, but just because someone gets their console modded is not sufficient evidence of piracy or even intention thereof.

DMCA needs to die.

[Ramaniscence]

Not if you to drive it on public roads. Ever heard of emission controls? Or safety inspections most states require?

True, but who's to say I'm going to take it on the street? Who's to say I'm not going to use it as a show car? Who's to say I'm not going to sell it to someone else to use as a show car? Sure they MIGHT drive it, but that's not necessarily the intention.

There are laws regulating many of these... are you aware of zoning laws? The FDA (companies cannot freely sell you their property)? OSHA (companies are regulated in using only approved ladders and a few million other things in the workplace)? There are certain substances out there that are not dangerous in and of themselves, but are still illegal or require a license because they could be mixed in a way to produce explosives or drugs. Further, and much more analogously, although I think those examples completely belie your point already, it's illegal to steal cable. There's nothing unique about this law. There are plenty on the books that regulate your behavior (especially as a business) in the creation of goods which directly encourage illegal actions.

Zoning laws, building permits, all that are usually put in place to stop things that would clearly and obviously hurt local business, residents, or yourself (for fire regulation and what not.)

For the most part, the only REAL harm that could come from modding is console is potential indirect damage to the gaming industry assuming the person it's modded for would use it to pirate things. Or if in the rare case a mod caused the console to over heat and combust or something.

If that's the case, wouldn't you just be able to have people fill out a lengthy signed waiver agreeing to not use the console for any illegal actions like playing copies of games they don't own?

And it IS illegal to steal cable, but is it illegal to have a box that COULD steal cable, and not actually do it?

[Schwaltzvald]

So there's been something of an update posted on Wired

Crippen, in a telephone interview with Threat Level, said the purpose of the jailbreaking was not for illegal piracy, but to allow patrons to use decrypted copies of their own DRM-laden gaming software. The DMCA, however, is not on his side, especially because he is accused of profiting from his hacks.

“This if for your legally made backups. If you’re talking about piracy, I’m not helping you out,”

Curiously do any one, in particularly with a XBox360, get your game discs scratched up worse than a vinyl record at a DJ's booth..? Had any of your discs get to where you can't play them..? Not your fault the damn machine mauls them faster than a dying VHS player? (...so many ruined VHS tapes...)

Better hope that copy of... wait what...? disc not recognized? Oh that's okay this CD/DVD-Dr. will fix up those scratches... Still not recognized... well the local vid store fixes discs, surely they can do it... disc still not recognized... You're telling me you have to buy another copy of the same game that had been priced at $60 and is now out of print... $193.89 on eBay/Amazon/craigslist!?

THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!

~ inspired by AVGN and personal experience...

Edit* To be clear I'm not bashing the 360 as I've heard and I believe read on this forum that the 360 is notoriously prone to scratch disc if the console is ever so far as being bumped or moved at all...

[Level 99]

Ah, what a wonderful, logical world we live in. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and beat my head against a wall for a few hours. It's about as good as trying to show the rational errors of rules like this to the rulemakers.

[PassivePretentiousness]

True, but who's to say I'm going to take it on the street? Who's to say I'm not going to use it as a show car? Who's to say I'm not going to sell it to someone else to use as a show car? Sure they MIGHT drive it, but that's not necessarily the intention.

Yes, if you keep it off of public roads, you can do whatever you want to it legally. I was responding to the way you originally phrased the point. Taking the bumper off the car or putting a diesel engine in it is effectively illegal unless you treat it like a toy (on a racetrack) or a trophy (at a car show) instead of using it as a car (transportation).

There's an order to it, however insane it may be. When your actions start negatively affecting the public, the law intervenes. Financial transactions are one of those situations where the state has always felt the right to intervene and regulate. Consider, for example, how drastically the punishment increases when the quantity of drugs in your possession exceeds what is deemed to be for personal use only. If your actions (an intent to distribute) demonstrate that you spread illegal behavior to more than yourself, everything gets a lot more serious.

Zoning laws, building permits, all that are usually put in place to stop things that would clearly and obviously hurt local business, residents, or yourself (for fire regulation and what not.)

Not necessarily. Zoning laws are just whatever the neighborhood or town or city wants. Such as, regulation of how high a building can be erected. There are towns out there that regulate what color you can paint your house.

That was also like one of the many examples I gave (and can keep listing), so I don't know what you were trying to prove in saying that.

For the most part, the only REAL harm that could come from modding is console is potential indirect damage to the gaming industry assuming the person it's modded for would use it to pirate things. Or if in the rare case a mod caused the console to over heat and combust or something.

If that's the case, wouldn't you just be able to have people fill out a lengthy signed waiver agreeing to not use the console for any illegal actions like playing copies of games they don't own?

No, since it's statutory, it's written automatically into every contract, including every sale. Many states demand that businesses offer some sort of implicit guarantee if you're sold a defective product. Renters have certain statutory rights against landlords whether or not they appear in a contract (EVEN if they waive them in a written agreement). Same thing here.

And it IS illegal to steal cable, but is it illegal to have a box that COULD steal cable, and not actually do it?

Here is a good comp for the original article

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DIZ/is_7_12/ai_59607220/

[Mr.Roboto]

The Cal State Fullerton student was arrested Monday on federal charges that he illegally modified Xbox, Playstation, Wii and other video game consoles to enable the machines to play pirated video games.

I don't see the problem here.

[yangfeili]

That law is silly. Yeah if he's doing things to promote illegal activity like helping pirates copy things or selling copies, then yeah arrest him and toss him into jail

I'm bothered by the fact that copyright infringment is punishable by prison at all. A fine? Sure. But prison time? The legal system has been hijacked. Heck, it really should probably be a civil matter rather than a criminal matter.

[prophetik music]

I don't see the problem here.

that's because you're 13, and an idiot. pirated games are illegal because they don't support the people that made them.

[Strike911]

I don't see the problem here.

I'm assuming you were using sarcasm in your post. If not then... well, damn son. Pirating games is wrong and illegal. Everyone agrees. But pirating games isn't necessarily the modder's fault. That's like going after an unknowing salesman that sold matches to a pyromaniac. Those committing the actual act of piracy are at fault here.

This guy is just modifying consoles, and I don't want to outright support anyone that advocates piracy if he does, but merely hacking a console brings a lot of added functionality to the device outside of piracy.

It by no means guarantees that someone is going to pirate games. That's my beef with this situation.

The law is screwy and a result of corporate luddites, and got legislation because of old men that hear what they want to hear.

[RedTigrr]

I wonder if and when this goes to trial, are they gonna bring up the case of the guy in Australia that actually won the case that Sony brought up against him several years ago dealing with this same situation.

http://www.out-law.com/page-6200

But only time will tell.

[kitty]

Curiously do any one, in particularly with a XBox360, get your game discs scratched up worse than a vinyl record at a DJ's booth..? Had any of your discs get to where you can't play them..? Not your fault the damn machine mauls them faster than a dying VHS player? (...so many ruined VHS tapes...)

That's me and my friends. My Xbox is modded to play backups and I've saved myself quit a bit of money to replace games that have been scratched to death. Poor Halo 3...

[Moguta]

From several of the above responses, it seems there is some confusion over what Mr. Crippen is being sued for. He is not being taken to court for the general act of modding a console. Much more specifically, he violated the DMCA by disabling a device's (game consoles') ability to prevent & control access to copyrighted material (games).

This is not at all analogous to including a CD burner in a computer, because a CD burner does not disable any copyright protection method. CDs, CD burners, and burnable data DON'T HAVE any copyright protection to disable.

This IS exactly analogous, though, to the lawsuits that have killed every DVD-backup/copying program that tries to enter the market. DVDs are encrypted, and any unauthorized device that attempts to break that encryption is illegal under the DMCA.