Super Metroid / Metroid Prime Remix

[progressive]

Just out of curiosity, which ones do you feel are undeserving of posting? You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not here to argue or insult you. But you obviously feel strongly about this. Please, share.

Also, I was kidding about the title. Seriously.

I will PM my opinions to you, BGC. I did comment on one or two of those remixes' discussion pages. I don't want to call others out by name on Meteo's thread, but I wanted to point out that it seems the judging standards are bouncing around quite a bit. That may due to the panel effect, or the fact that this mix only saw three judges, I don't know. But like I said before, I don't think Meteo needs to be nearly so overwhelmed. There are a couple things to fix (for free) and he needs to resub.

[big giant circles]

I am going to say something, and it may come across as harsh. I will say it's more my intent to be blunt and direct, and harshness may just be an unfortunate by-product.

People, ESPECIALLY those in the music business, need to STOP operating under the assumption that everything is always perfect the first time. This goes way beyond OverClocked ReMix. Learning to grow a thick (enough) skin is critical to achieving success for 99.9+% of all musicians in the world. Just because you think a track is good enough does not always mean there's no room for improvement.

In the case at hand, Meteo received 3 votes all citing that the mix was really close to green, and ALL of them specifically requested him to resubmit it. We generally don't bother asking for resubmits if we feel like a track is weak enough that it would probably be too much trouble to fix it than to just start from scratch or else move on entirely. Some of you seem to be "epic failing" to comprehend that.

Quote time:

I don't really have any qualms over the arrangement. I don't require any sort of groundbreaking opus, I'd say this is good enough. I'd just work on the execution, mostly. And don't be so dull with your drums. Choose a different clap/snare sound, and find a fatter kick. Maybe try out some sidechaining to give it some more Oomph/power.

Not to be condescending, but I don't anyone with a good set of ears would confuse this for Kenji Yamamoto the second that boring, flimsy, cruise-controlled clap groove came in at :25.

Very good idea to overlay the two themes. I thought the arrangement was very pretty at times. It's a little flat though, and while some of that comes down to the production, but I thought this was at odds about what it wanted to be. The clap groove was sparse and minimal, but the rest of the production suggested something denser. I would probably replace that clap groove with something heavier and less repetitive, because it didn't work for me. And please center it too. Sequencing on the lead and piano could stand to be less rigid.

I thought there were whole sections of frequency missing from this. Needed more lows, needed more mid-highs. Kick could have been fatter to fill those lower frequencies (and might want to tone down the reverb on it, that just muds things up).

Yeah, we sort of ripped you a new one here, but the basic arrangement is quite nice. Don't forget that. If you can get over the hurdles with this, this could be something great.

Vinnie's vote is full of positive stuff, although I don't agree that we "ripped [Meteo] a new one" at all, seeing as simple yet direct feedback with the intention of helping improve a track that's ALMOST passable can only be seen that way to someone looking for an excuse to cry. At any rate, please note that none of us requested anything unreasonable, or even difficult. Vinnie and I both noted that the arrangement was fine, and that there are some (reasonably quick-fix) production issues that can be resolved, as well as picking a different clap and panning it center.

I realize that for some of us (the collective OCR community) that music is simply a hobby/passtime. And that's fine. And for some of us, it's something we'd like to do as a career (and some of us are doing). And I PROMISE that for the latter, having music rejected is something that will happen A LOT. If you think you are good enough that it won't happen to you, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. And I'm not saying it won't ever bother you, but the point is, you're going to have to accept that you are not the only person who has a set of ears in the world. Sometimes, it takes the opinions of others to point out things that you have missed that could be the difference between having a bad track and a good track, or a good track and a great track.

The sooner this is learned, the better off you will be as a musician.

[big giant circles]

I will PM my opinions to you, BGC. I did comment on one or two of those remixes' discussion pages. I don't want to call others out by name on Meteo's thread, but I wanted to point out that it seems the judging standards are bouncing around quite a bit. That may due to the panel effect, or the fact that this mix only saw three judges, I don't know. But like I said before, I don't think Meteo needs to be nearly so overwhelmed. There are a couple things to fix (for free) and he needs to resub.

Fair enough, but if you read the original decision thread, you'll see that we said the exact same thing.

[Nabeel Ansari]

The only reason Meteo's overwhelmed is because we're (as in those that are not judges) all being morons. :tomatoface:

He should just take the judges suggestions and resubmit, I certainly don't think he wants our suggestions anymore, and I can't really blame him.

Meteo you should just take what judges have to say in mind and block us out.

Like Shariq always tells me, "Sometimes you just need to work on something on your own." Well he only told me that once, but it's still good advice nonetheless.

[big giant circles]

Moron is a little strong, I prefer to say that you guys were just over-thinking it a bit

[Nabeel Ansari]

Moron is a little strong, I prefer to say that you guys were just over-thinking it a bit

Well, I was hoping the tomato faces would weaken the harsh connotation a bit. :<

[big giant circles]

As did I with the

[Nabeel Ansari]

As did I with the

0.0

...

0.o

...

'

...

0.0

...

d-(^.^)-b WEEEEEE!!!

[Meteo Xavier]

Ohhhhhh shittttt..........

[Nabeel Ansari]

Ohhhhhh shittttt..........

What happened?

[Liontamer]

Alright, after a thorough listen, I can honestly say "wtf." I can name at least three mixes on the front page that don't deserve to be there. I do support the judges decision to have you resub this, but hell, what a double standard. Anyway, I'd say the problems aren't as numerous as you might think. The lead is fine, although at that frequency it becomes more of an ambient noise. You can't afford to make it more piercing, so I think it works fine. You might try breaking things up in the middle with some sort of solo with a different instrument. The clap fades into the soundscape - I don't know why they had such a problem with it. As I said, there have been some real craptastic tunes on the front page, so go figure. Tempo is fine, fix the balance on the EQ and bring out the bass thump a little more and resub it. You can only hope they don't NO you for something like the title next time.

I'd say this is why you aren't a judge.

[rig1015]

Wow this post has gotten a lot of scratch on it. But as for ideas no one offered anymore after like, the first three posts, oh well .

MeteoX how did you get it in your head you need a Roman choir? Because if it came from me, my bad. I'm just recording my old Methodists choir from the church I went to as a kid. I thought you might have something like that you could use in your town that's all. And you shouldn't have to BUY mics... there has got to be a rental place you could get your hands on near you; rent the equipment (if you want to really record a choir).

I remember you were already feeling jaded once. Don't let these whiners make you think anything other than awesome. You're track was (is) awesome to begin with... apparently the judges wanted more awesome from you & I totally think you can give it!

Wash away all the crits and walk away with the ideas, take a few passes at it again submitting and changing things you might not want to change and then, viola! You're done and I'm sure it'll pass.

If you start doubting yourself the interweb wins...

***interweb laughs sinisterly***

[progressive]

I'd say this is why you aren't a judge.

I guess I was mistaken for having an opinion on such a subjective matter as music, LT. I certainly didn't know about the "no clap" rule or that the vox can't sound anything like the source material itself.

And here's another opinion of mine: sure, I was honest and inflammatory in my post, but your haughty response is surprising when you NOed this mix in seven sentences and your first and biggest criticism was the largely insignificant clap. I suppose it's hard to fit any sort of constructive criticism into so few words?

And nine times out of ten, "not to be condescending, but" translates to "I'm about to be condescending."

[Nabeel Ansari]

I guess I was mistaken for having an opinion on such a subjective matter as music, LT. I certainly didn't know about the "no clap" rule or that the vox can't sound anything like the source material itself.

And here's another opinion of mine: sure, I was honest and inflammatory in my post, but your haughty response is surprising when you NOed this mix in seven sentences and your first and biggest criticism was the largely insignificant clap. I suppose it's hard to fit any sort of constructive criticism into so few words?

And nine times out of ten, "not to be condescending, but" translates to "I'm about to be condescending."

Claps aren't insignificant.

That's like calling a snare insignificant, or a kick or a hi hat or a lead or a bass or a string or a brass insignificant.

Every instrument in music is significant, and if Larry's biggest criticism is the clap, that means this mix isn't too far off from acceptable.

[progressive]

Groan.....

[jabond23]

Claps aren't insignificant.

This is true. Why put an instrument in a mix if you didn't want it to be significant.

WORD!

[Nabeel Ansari]

This is true. Why put an instrument in a mix if you didn't want it to be significant.

WORD!

WORD! MAH NAME IS RDIZZLEFOSHIZZLEMAHNIZZLEOFDAHIZZLE... DRIZZLE. :tomatoface:

Back on topic, if Meteo wants to get his track on OCR soon as possible, this thread shouldn't be here.

He should just do what judges asked for him to do (which ain't much) and they'll YES it next time. I see no reason why they reject something they ask for.

[big giant circles]

Woah, chill Prog. I don't think Larry was trying to do anything other than jest with ya man. He's a laid back guy, don't take it personally.

Truthfully, I would say the clap is the single worst part of the track and if I had to single out a deal-breaker, that would be it. I've made the point before that a single bad sound can bring down the overall quality if a track, and I still stand by that. Besides, with something so easy to do as change out a sample, why all the fuss at the request to do so?

I've taken on a more sympathetic role in my voting lately, but since this one had the fatal flaw to begin with, I felt compelled to point out some other simple things that would be worth touching up on as well.

My, there seem to be a lot of upset people in this thread. Whatchagonnado?

[Liontamer]

I guess I was mistaken for having an opinion on such a subjective matter as music, LT. I certainly didn't know about the "no clap" rule or that the vox can't sound anything like the source material itself.

And here's another opinion of mine: sure, I was honest and inflammatory in my post, but your haughty response is surprising when you NOed this mix in seven sentences and your first and biggest criticism was the largely insignificant clap. I suppose it's hard to fit any sort of constructive criticism into so few words?

And nine times out of ten, "not to be condescending, but" translates to "I'm about to be condescending."

Hahaha! All that's just silly. There's no "no clap" rule, that's just absurd. And I've heard Metroid Prime; the vox sequencing there sounds better than what was in the past sub. Plus, the timing of several other parts sounded unrealistic and slightly awkward, so it was a broader issue. As I mentioned, it didn't sound awful, but the rigid timing was noticeable.

As far as the clap, that was cited first not because it was the biggest problem, but because that was the first issue I heard in the track chronologically (hence the timestamp). As far as the clap being a non-starter, it's about the tone & position of the instrument as well as the part-writing, which both needed work. That's not just me saying it, that's all the NOs saying it.

This isn't some case where this sub happened to get the 3 evil judges who went NO instead of YES like others would have, no matter how passionately you feel about the track. For whatever reason, you lack the objectivity to cite these issues. To me, it's one thing to go "I hear the issues, but don't mind", because I hear NOs with issues that I enjoy anyway because they're cool regardless. But you're telling me we're basically overblowing the issues here to where we rejected a YESable track, and that's just nonsense. Honestly, it annoys me more to have to say that, because we also Meteo here who's being (needlessly) negative toward his abilities as a result of the rejection.

Anyway, if this guy's bitching that my vote wasn't constructive, then "take 2". So to sum up AGAIN for Meteo (and I don't understand why he's feeling butthurt; don't, just shake it off and see what you can do further with the track):

1. The clap groove was too simplistically written and also didn't mesh with the rest of the soundscape. "B.A.M.F. (Radio Edit)", for example, was a recent instance where a prominent clap was used nicely, and the percussion patterns were more varied and interesting, thereby lending more energy & direction to the piece. If you want a much more downbeat example, OverCoat's "Path-ology" shows a straightforward pattern, but one with off-beats that's not as plain as the one in this sub.

2. The sequencing wasn't terrible, but could use some fine tuning. I'd see what you could come up with.

3. We have a lot of songs with less pronounced yet discernible curves, so there's no hate on the general mood you're trying to establish. However, the dynamic curve here was too flat, and the arrangement ideas dragged a bit through the melodic repetition without significant development. You need to add some more dynamic contrast.

[progressive]

Alright, I can see where you guys are coming from, I just didn't personally feel in listening to his track that the clap or vox were "deal breakers." But I did think the repetition, lopsided EQ balance, and weak percussion were, which are all relatively easy fixes. That's just my opinion. Like I said, I agreed with the resub decision, I just guess for different(ish) reasons.

Anyway, I'll let Meteo get back to his thread.

[Meteo Xavier]

I'm not feeling anything other than wondering how the hell this topic exploded out of proportion. At one point I spoke up on the polarizing and somewhat frustrating suggestions and the next thing I know its become a damn debate and a plea for attention that I did not build.

My concern now that Larry's here and Jimmy's spoken up a whole bunch (all we're missing now is Palp) is that if I go through the motion to fix and submit and have it accepted, is it a fair review? What does it mean not only to have to bother the judges for my first submission but waste their time extracurricularly for the SECOND one too?

We have a term for that sort of thing where I work. Its called "conflict of interest" - and now the precedent is setting where I need to follow a rejection-whinefest-resubmit to get anything done as opposed to working on my own effort.

This is WIP is no longer subject to fair judicial review and likely will not be considered for overhaul in some time. This topic is closed.

[big giant circles]

What on earth are you talking about/Now you're just being silly/Whatever man, it's your baby do whatever you want with it.

[Liontamer]

My concern now that Larry's here and Jimmy's spoken up a whole bunch (all we're missing now is Palp) is that if I go through the motion to fix and submit and have it accepted, is it a fair review? What does it mean not only to have to bother the judges for my first submission but waste their time extracurricularly for the SECOND one too?

We have a term for that sort of thing where I work. Its called "conflict of interest" - and now the precedent is setting where I need to follow a rejection-whinefest-resubmit to get anything done as opposed to working on my own effort.

This is WIP is no longer subject to fair judicial review and likely will not be considered for overhaul in some time. This topic is closed.

Hahaha! You need to NOT blow shit out of proportion, that's what you need to do. I've been doing this for 5 years. The suggestion that I can't give a fair vote because I dropped some comments in a WIP thread is ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL.

Look, if you don't wanna resub it because you'd rather work on something else, it's a free world. But if "this" above is your reason, it's a stupid one. We won't have a problem judging a resubmission fairly. As if we've never had anything like this happen before ever.

[Gario]

Um... why did you remove the link? I wanted to hear your music .

(DELETED, for whomever read it, which I'm sure was no one)

By the way, I still want to hear your remix, could you post it again ?

EDIT: Obviously, I had no clue what I was posting about a few minutes earlier - this thread really did take a sour turn for the worst (not your fault, Meteo). Taking out the music because of the results of a sour thread is strange, though - it doesn't change anything with this thread. Of course, it's your music, and you have the right to do what you like, but I don't know where your coming from with the removal and 'not fair judicial review' comment. Frankly, one of the posters in your thread prodded at the J's and they responded to him (and only to him, really, with an occasional joke at you, for fun).

Anyhoo, if your still feeling strong against posting your music in here again I'd like to hear it in a PM or something - it'd be a shame to miss out on your music because I took a week sabatical from the WIP thread.

[Meteo Xavier]

Its still up on my Myspace page, which you can find on my artist profile page under REFERENCES I think. You can message me if you have additional comments you feel compelled to make or you would like to discuss it to any degree. I would not like to discuss it any further here for the public to see as it might jeopardize what little artistic credibility I might have.

Even if Larry is ok with it, I am not. I will not be known as a remixer who gets "butthurt" or "blow shit out of proportion" every time he comes up short with a track. I am not a baby and I will not be portrayed as one in this ironically young stage of my artistic entity. All it takes is one little thing like this to reflect poorly on me and corrupt my standing with the judges and build another awful reputation I don't have time or tools to fix. I'd much rather be portrayed as an obsessive perfectionist than another damn HoboKa any day of the week.

That is my position and my final words on the matter. Any one else can discuss it with me anywhere in private.

Also, Gario, if that link doesn't work or something, I'll find another place to host it for you.