glasfen Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 It's good to be back. VG Opinion Poll #17 The media seems to think that most gamers are guys. They could be right. But they are overlooking a large portion of the female population who also consider themselves gamers. I'm not exactly sure why it is under-reported, but I believe it has something to do with games themselves and the bias therein. Many, many games portray gender roles in classical or stereotypical fashion: men act, women wait. Going back to some of the oldest games with plots (I use the term loosely), you find: Mario saving Princess Toadstool from Donkey Kong or Bowser; Link saving Zelda from Ganon; Ryu saving Irene Law; heck, even in Nintendo's Pinball you could save Daisy! Plot summary = hero saves girl. Congrats. Granted, not all females in classic games were helpless damsels in distress. Metroid was a huge break from the stereotypical gender roles in "modern" society. It was probably a shock if the big secret hadn't been spoiled before you played it. However, the game designers couldn't resist putting Samus JUST IN her BAILEY as a "reward" for completing the game quickly. The Zero Suit is simply a continuation of this trend. Even if you have a strong female in a game, the odds are that she is highly attractive. Do developers think we can't empathize with a normal-looking person? I mean, Mario (the plumber!) is no catch. The decision to emphasize female beauty may be based on the presumption that most gamers are male. But what does this do to gender roles? My guess is that it undermines any progress that's made by putting a woman in a lead role. Yes, there are a lot of strong female game characters out there. But how many of them are valued for their personalities, their smarts, and their inner strength, as opposed to their scantily clad, curvy bodies? In my experience, I find that there are very few examples of female game characters who are not stereotyped, either in their roles, or in their looks. When I think of women like this, I think of Quistis, the original Joanna Dark, Raine Sage, Scarlett O'Hara, Zoe Washburne, Margaret Thatcher, and Deunan Knute. Okay, some of those are not from games, but you get my point. Despite my objections, I still think Samus is a good candidate for gender equality, except for her progressively Hollywood look. Zelda has become a strong, independent woman (especially in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess), even though she began by sitting around Ganon's lair or snoozing atop an altar. Maybe some of the women from the Resident Evil games can also be considered as breaking away from traditional roles. I won't go into fighting games, though. Personally, I have found the best female characters in more avant-garde titles. Games like Eternal Darkness, Beyond Good and Evil, and Mirror's Edge put you in the shoes of an intelligent, resourceful, and scrappy woman, not some titillatingly shapely bimbo. Those developers might have sold more games with a sexier lead character but I think they did the right thing. So, if you're still with me, I would like to ask the following question: In video games, are gender roles more stereotypical or modern*? a. Stereotypical b. Modern *meaning respected equally Vote and be heard! Ideas? Comments? PM me. P.S.: I'm not hating on your favorite game/character, just making observations about gender portrayal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 i'm pretty sure rampant objectification of women in media is a modern thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinslayer Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 A: Stereotypical Unfortunately, that's just a following, maybe someday there'll be a day whenever gender roles are not stereotyped, but for the vast majority of games, the stereotype exists.... Also, you forgot to mention Zelda as Sheik in Ocarina of Time, Link wouldn't have been nowhere without her, and even when she reverts to Zelda after being kidnapped by Ganon, she's the one that takes LINK out of the castle, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Poll title is misleading. If you're gonna talk about just female stereotyping, then you should say that instead. Just remember, for every stereotyped princess in distress, there's a stereotyped knight in shinning armor that's supposed to rescue her, and for every Mai Shiranui, there's a Kazuya Mishima or Jan Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Falling Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I vote that it's still stereotypical. But not so much because they don't know how else to portray women, but seriously to just attract horny guys. I've actually started to get annoyed with it a long time ago. Especially the Evony ads are really an example of how redicilous this advertising strategy is (albeit effective, probably) But okay, its more about in game characters, rather than advertising. Honestly, I just can't take the women, as you described them, serious in games. Because I just can't make the click in my head. Which in itself may be stereotyping as well. I just go "this woman should have been a model, not some gun wielding biatch". It just doesn't make sense to me. Some realism would be nice. Just take a common looking girl/woman for once and make that your game character. And make her do things appropriate to her background story...and make the background story appropriate as well...It's all about context and credibility ... I complete missed the point didn't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Stereotypical. Except we now have modern stereotypes. Prominent women in games are still objects, except now they're either hot kickass objects instead of beautiful objects in need of rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROTO·DOME Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Poll title is misleading. If you're gonna talk about just female stereotyping, then you should say that instead. My point exactly. I find that both men and women are portrayed unrealistically in games. It's not just the women, the male characters can be just as linier and shallow. There are exceptions though- look at Oblivion. Yes, there was some stereotyping in it- but it really didn't matter in that game who was male or female. Both looked like boring, kinda ugly people who'd either kill you, or you'd kill without much care what gender they were. Okay, this is a bad example as none of them actually had much personality, but it's a start. Metroid does a similar thing; it really doesn't matter what gender Samus is, it makes no difference to the game, storyline, atmosphere or character (ignoring the obvious "Zero Suit" and that crap). It's not so much liberation of a certain gender that people should worry about, more an equality between them as characters and as people. It would be nice to see more games with a character that doesn't have their personality dictated by their gender. So I'm going to have to go for A. Stereotypical. (I've got some bad examples, I'm tired. I know there are many games out there that take a more modern standpoint, however not enough.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salluz Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Stereotyping is still predominant but equality/neutrality has arisen. However, we must remember not to mistake difference or role-play for inequality. Also, you forgot to mention Zelda as Sheik in Ocarina of Time, Link wouldn't have been nowhere without her, and even when she reverts to Zelda after being kidnapped by Ganon, she's the one that takes LINK out of the castle, not the other way around. Truth you speak, however, those Gerudo women... OWAIT they're all badasses who protect themselves! Never mind, although they are all bodaciously curvaceous with weird features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizyr Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 A. Stereotypical (but, it's improving) While I think there are definitely exceptions, and that the exceptions are becoming more frequent, I still think that female characters on balance are more likely to be portrayed stereotypically than male characters. Just to clarify (sorry, I'm a statistician so I feel that I have to use really precise language...): take any random male character and any random female character from a game or series, and the probability that the female character fits into a stereotyped gender role for women is higher than the probability that the male character fits into a stereotyped gender role for men. But, my intuition is that (a) the disparity between the two is gradually decreasing (meaning that over the years, it's become less likely for female characters to be "stereotypical"), and ( the probability of both is decreasing (meaning that, overall, male and female characters are less likely to be "stereotypical"--meaning they're more original). At least, that's my intuition. By the way, it may be interesting to do a cross-tab on opinions of this coming from men and women who self-identify as gamers. I'd be surprised if something similar hasn't already been done. KF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasfen Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Poll title is misleading. If you're gonna talk about just female stereotyping, then you should say that instead. Well, you're right, I didn't talk about male stereotyping, except as heroes in the "save the love interest" plotline. It seems to me, and perhaps I'm wrong, that female stereotyping is more damaging and more rampant in games than in other media. I vote that it's still stereotypical. But not so much because they don't know how else to portray women, but seriously to just attract horny guys.I've actually started to get annoyed with it a long time ago. Especially the Evony ads are really an example of how redicilous this advertising strategy is (albeit effective, probably) But okay, its more about in game characters, rather than advertising. Honestly, I just can't take the women, as you described them, serious in games. Because I just can't make the click in my head. Which in itself may be stereotyping as well. I just go "this woman should have been a model, not some gun wielding biatch". It just doesn't make sense to me. Some realism would be nice. Just take a common looking girl/woman for once and make that your game character. And make her do things appropriate to her background story...and make the background story appropriate as well...It's all about context and credibility ... I complete missed the point didn't I? Actually, I think you hit every point squarely on the head. And, yes, for the record, I think those ads are terrible. Also, you forgot to mention Zelda as Sheik in Ocarina of Time, Link wouldn't have been nowhere without her, and even when she reverts to Zelda after being kidnapped by Ganon, she's the one that takes LINK out of the castle, not the other way around. Sorry I didn't mention that. Zelda in Ocarina, as herself or Shiek, is a prime example of a strong female lead who is not objectified or portrayed in a condescending manner. Excellent point. Just to clarify (sorry, I'm a statistician so I feel that I have to use really precise language...): take any random male character and any random female character from a game or series, and the probability that the female character fits into a stereotyped gender role for women is higher than the probability that the male character fits into a stereotyped gender role for men. But, my intuition is that (a) the disparity between the two is gradually decreasing (meaning that over the years, it's become less likely for female characters to be "stereotypical"), and ( the probability of both is decreasing (meaning that, overall, male and female characters are less likely to be "stereotypical"--meaning they're more original). At least, that's my intuition. By the way, it may be interesting to do a cross-tab on opinions of this coming from men and women who self-identify as gamers. I'd be surprised if something similar hasn't already been done. KF This is great stuff. I have to agree on all points. If I can find any actual data on the subject, I'll post it with results from this poll. And, Rozo, Salluz, I agree that, as some sort of compensation for stereotypical appearance, some female characters are granted more power or ferocity. Very good points thus far. Thanks for your opinions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuketheXjesse Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 a. stereotypical womenz breasts are much larger in video games than in real life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKieser Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 A: Stereotypical. Personally, I'm glad you used Samus as an example; I know that "little Jack" loves Zero Suit, but I really do find her recent hyper-sexualization to be unnerving, especially considering the whole reason I like Samus is because of her strength and her story, not because of her rack. Also, , even though it's really worth linking to all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobaltstarfire Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I think I'm going to have to go with A. stereotypical Like...everyone else lol. Females are coming out of their damsel in distress role a bit more, but when they do they are painfully girly much of the time. Or draw a ton of attention to the fact that it's a girl rather than a guy. I don't think objectifying the male and female body really comes into it much, because both genders are often largely treated like objects. The women are all pretty beautiful, and the men all fall into some category of badass/prettyboy/rugged so meh. I think the "modern" choice would work better as something else though, because it doesn't really fit the meaning you're looking for with this poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasfen Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Also, , even though it's really worth linking to all the time. Yeah, sephire always does a great job. I'll admit that his video on sex(uality) in video games got me thinking about posting this poll. Thanks for pointing out that video, though. I hadn't seen it yet. I think the "modern" choice would work better as something else though, because it doesn't really fit the meaning you're looking for with this poll. I had trouble coming up with an appropriate term to balance against "stereotype". What I mean by "modern" is "lacking in traditional gender roles or bias". Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeAuto Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 A. Stereotypical (but, it's improving) I agree here. There still is room for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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