Your Evaluation of a "Good" Music Album/Soundtrack?

[SwordBreaker]

This can be obviously videogame-centric even though it applies to the music industry in whole. When do you consider a soundtrack to be "good"?

This varies from people to people. I haven't really considered it until my friend brought it up one day during a discussion, mentioning that his personal bar is that 4-5 tracks need to be well-made in order for the full album to be a good one, regardless of the length of the album itself.

When it comes to videogame music vs. mainstream soundtracks, it's sort of hard to apply the same logic since most videogame scores these days have multiple tracks that average 2 minutes in length...so it's a lot of content in short bursts. OCR's albums have lengthier tracks since they're remixes but not the whole soundtrack is essentially covered, so maybe those can fit under my friend's personal tastes.

Regarding videogame music (not remixes), I usually find myself loving a soundtrack when there are about 10 or more tracks that I find addicting, as evident by my iTunes ratings.

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm curious on how you people personally evaluate Music CDs and I'm trying to find my own way to consider a soundtrack to bad bad or good instead of depending on my friend's logic. This is a very subjective discussion of course...but don't be afraid to rant away.

Another thing that made me write this topic is the recent release of Xenogears "Humans + Gears". I currently have strong mixed feelings about this one to be honest, divided right down the middle. Still not sure whether it's "good" or "disappointing" in my opinion. The effort is your typical OCR A++, but the direction with most of the tracks is sort of weird to me. You see, we have an interesting situation in evaluating OCR or game remix albums in general...especially if you're a fan of the material and you've handpicked a couple of personal favorites. What if most of your favorite tracks that have been remixed aren't your cup of tea at all, yet some of the other original tracks that you've initially under-appreciated are surprisingly well-made? That's basically my thoughts of Humans + Gears. I still need to listen more in order to formulate a full opinion.

[Bahamut]

As far as soundtrack goes, if it melds with the other media it is used in well - for example, how well a game soundtrack integrates with the game itself.

As far as music album period goes, generally if most of the songs are good. What is good to me? If a song takes a concept that isn't despicable, and builds around it to enhance or illustrate the concept.

[atmuh]

if it sounds good to me its good how much more complicated do you want this

[Rozovian]

If most of the songs aren't just listenable but also... good.

Good meaning they convey an emotion, energy, or something else that I want to get from them; are sonically or musically interesting and accessible, or the lyrics something I agree with. The more of these the tracks do, and the better they do it, the better the album is. Don't listen much to albums nowadays, just to playlists of the good stuff from a little everywhere, so the tracks don't need to fit together like they'd traditionally do on an album, but it's nice if they do feel like they belong together without sounding the same.

For a soundtrack, it's basically the same (tho lyrics would often be distracting), except it then should also fit the game's visuals and gameplay while at the same time coloring the gameplay and story emotionally.

[Olarin]

It's very simple: things that I like are good, and everyone else is wrong. I really don't know how it is that the rest of you continually fail to understand this.

[Schwaltzvald]

if it sounds good to me its good how much more complicated do you want this

works for me~!

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

...As long as it doesn't suck I guess? I dunno, it's all very subjective.

I'm gonna try to sound like a douche as little as possible, but as far as the full OCRemix albums go I think I've only liked Blood on The Asphalt, and even then it comes down to about 7 or so tracks. Everything else has been pretty awful in my opinion.

In terms of what I look for in music, I want to listen to something that makes me feel a certain way, whether it be anger, joy, sadness, excitement, whatever, or even if it reminds me of something, I want the theme to carry a mood or setting that speaks to me. I also like complexity and creativity in my music.

[atmuh]

works for me~!

i liked the first one but i cant stand how this music takes serious effort to find on the internet or anywhere which is i guess why i stick with mainstream music

[Schwaltzvald]

...I want to listen to something that makes me feel a certain way, whether it be anger, joy, sadness, excitement, whatever, or even if it reminds me of something, I want the theme to carry a mood or setting that speaks to me. I also like complexity and creativity in my music.

It truly is quite subjective...

i liked the first one but i cant stand how this music takes serious effort to find on the internet or anywhere which is i guess why i stick with mainstream music

Why not ask me? Unlike most I'm willing to share the wealth...

In fact I encourage any one to at least try asking others, and if it helps I'm usually quite easy going to approach. If it must be, just pm me.

In fact if you look closely at my sig you may see something under it... If you want something more complete then you'll have to pm me.

[LuketheXjesse]

It has odd time signatures and virtuosic lead guitars.

[Schwaltzvald]

I'll put it this way, if I can find and put together a hyadain music collection, not much is beyond my reach.

That said, Here you go Atmuh, enjoy

[Meteo Xavier]

I quit trying to think of music as good or bad, I just seperate it into what works for me and what doesn't work. Music is art and it inspires different things out of different people. Some of my favorite stuff comes from people society largely hates.

Basically, as long as its melody, harmony and rhythm and sounds cleanly produced and recorded, it's good music (potentially). All it needs from there is to find the right audience to appreciate it.

[Schwaltzvald]

Basically, as long as it sounds awesome to someone, it's good music. All it needs from there is to find the right audience to appreciate it.

[djpretzel]

Well, I guess the thread has been derailed a bit, but I think it's a decent enough question. First, there's a difference between a good album and a great album, for me. In either instance, I really think 4-5 songs should be great. On a good album, the rest of the songs can be... alright. On a great album, the rest of the songs are pretty damn good as well. That's my definition, more or less.

[Meteo Xavier]

Don't forget that sometimes a good album will, over time, turn into a great album. Soundtracks too. For a long time, I couldn't stand the Valkyrie Profile OST, but the minute I was using it as a reference to learn how to construct music, I couldn't imagine living without it.

Earthbound is probably another example. I imagine a lot of people didn't take to its challenging, wild song constructions at first either, but its definitely something that grows on you and now its as classic as classic gets.

The reverse can also be true. An album or a soundtrack that is immediately absorbed can, over time, degrade down to good or worse.

Its just taste and taste can change over time.

[The Vagrance]

I hear "This is one of the few albums that I can actually listen to all of the way through" all too often, like a great album is an increasingly rare occurrence. There are SO MANY great albums that I've that I can't name them all without having to actually sit down and list them, which I've attempted to do and have yet to finish mostly out of apathy for having a list on my computer of great albums. You have to wonder, "surely you don't love every song on the album?" And its true, I very rarely do, but when that is the case it makes the album boring and makes the listener lose focus. An example of this is Aphex Twin's Richard D. James Album. Absolutely phenomenal album and a classic, but its hard to listen through multiple times in close proximity without just getting bored of it, whereas other albums (The Unicorn's Who Will Cut Our Hair When We're Gone? comes to mind) that may not have as consistent of an "awesome" curve, if you will, are much more enjoyable to listen through multiple times (I've listened to that Unicorns album probably 4 or 5 times within the past week). Albums need flaws to be more enjoyable as a whole experience.

Now, I'm not saying that there should be some bad songs thrown in for the sake of it, as this rule only works if the more unlistenable moments still work in the context of the album, such as parts of Squarepusher's Ultravisitor album. Its nearly noise at certain points but the album of a whole doesn't suffer too much for it because it ebbs and flows enough that if you power through sections of robot torture then you'll discover rather beautiful and brilliant moments.

Really the primary criteria for a great album is for there to be a singular theme or tone holding it together, and very clear effort put in by the artists, and of course points of brilliance scattered throughout. Some examples of great albums to me that I feel exemplify this:

The Blood Brothers - ...Burn, Piano Island, Burn

Busdriver - Jhelli Beam

Dinosaur Jr. - Farm

Flying Lotus - Los Angeles

Mew - No More Stories...

The Unicorns - Who Will Cut Our Hair When We're Gone?

µ-Ziq - Lunatic Harness

Now, that said, there are plenty of albums that I love that are simply compilations of a lot of quality singles that really don't have a very clear collective goal in mind, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are also a lot of albums I really like where there are enough stretches of dislike to keep me from calling them great. Really my definition of a great album isn't set in stone, but if it can do one or both of the following then I'll call it great generally:

1. Impress me thoroughly with few stretches of bad songs

2. Make me listen through the whole album multiple times as opposed to picking out random tracks after a listen or two

Unfortunately, because of their purpose (background music very often), video game soundtracks are rarely considered "great" to me. There's usually a lot of throwaway tracks on most simply because of the sheer amount of music that often has to be in the game. Not to say I don't enjoy a lot of video game music because that simply isn't true, but what I will say is that I've never listened through a video game soundtrack without skipping over certain songs. There are certainly brilliant moments to be had on some songs ("Attack!" from Final Fantasy X remains as one of my favorite songs period) but I'm more of a big picture guy.

</pseudo rant>

[Olarin]

The original post is a little confusing to me, because it seems you're almost searching for some arbitrary threshold number of how many good tracks an album or soundtrack has to have for it to be a good collection of songs. However, albums and soundtracks are more than just collections of individual tracks, or at least they can be.

A soundtrack, of course, is meant to enhance another form of media, so whether it's a 'good' soundtrack is going to be dependent on how well it serves that other media (as has already been mentioned in this thread). So for instance a soundtrack could be full of excellent tunes and still be a 'bad' soundtrack, because each song was a poor choice for where it was used in the movie or game or whatever it was used for, but you still might be eager to buy the soundtrack CD.

As for an album, although some artists just view it as a collection of tunes, many others carefully plan their track lists to be a complete listening experience that is more than the sum of its parts. Sometimes many of the individual tracks on an album won't be that impressive by themselves or may even seem annoying out of context, but listening to the entire album on its own terms will still be a very satisfying experience.

Even if you are just looking at an album or soundtrack as a collection of songs and nothing more, there are still a lot of variables to consider, depending on why you're rendering judgement on the collection. For instance, if you're considering whether to buy an album - if it only has four strong tunes out of twelve, but it only costs five dollars, it's not so bad a deal; if on the other hand it's a rare import or out of print item that you'd have to shell out forty or fifty dollars for, you're probably only going to be interested if you know for a fact you want more than half the tunes that are on there.

[SwordBreaker]

Great stuff, you guys. Loving the different opinions here. Like I said in the first post, there's nothing really concrete when it comes to this simply because everyone's a critic. I do agree with The Vagrance on one thing; modern videogame soundtracks are rarely considered "excellent" compared to mainstream albums or even movie soundtracks because you're bound to hit a couple of "filler" and "throwaway" tracks. That's why I sometimes consider Game X to have great music if it contains 10 tracks that I love, give or take a few.

Wow, Meteo...you hated Valkyrie Profile's music? That's weird. I fell in love with the soundtrack upon first listen. Glad you enjoyed it over time.

[Meteo Xavier]

Wow, Meteo...you hated Valkyrie Profile's music? That's weird. I fell in love with the soundtrack upon first listen. Glad you enjoyed it over time.

The main problem with Sakuraba's soundtracks is that they're just so much damn filler. He writes 18 CDs of music a year and so much of his music sounds like SO MUCH of his music already. If a character needed to fart for 5 full minutes in a debug room or something, Motoi would have a busy, 3:30 long progressive treatment for it, in 7/8 and E Minor. .

But to STUDY his stuff for how music can work - Sakuraba is the goose that lays golden eggs. He's also great to see how an artist can evolve and sustain. His earliest stuff is absolute JUNK, but every soundtrack he's done after another has been much better than the one before.

IMO, it hasn't been until he really stepped up his Game around Star Ocean 3 and Baten Kaitos that he started to pump out what can be considered good or GREAT albums. Baten Kaitos Origins is the best soundtrack on Gamecube and you need to hear it to believe it.

Like I said, sometimes its just a time issue.

2) It can't be the same shit over and over again or something that's already been done a lot. This constitutes the art music crowd's main complaint with the popular genres because 95% of popular music just covers old ground.

But everything HAS already been done before. See above with Sakuraba.

I used to have this same issue with music, as early as earlier this year, but I've come to disregard the art music crowd's complaints. So what if music covers old ground? So what if it caters to people who don't listen indepthly into music? If people like it, it's good music. It's already been done anyway, might as well do it RIGHT instead.

This is why I don't condemn bands like Nickelback or Creed or 3 Doors Down. People don't like shit and lots of people like them so....