Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Temporal Tower Remix

[TGH]

Hey, all, haven't posted something in a while. . .

Anyway, I'm gonna start off by saying that I really don't know why there aren't any remixes from this game on this site. The music from this game is freaking awesome, I don't care what anybody thinks. lol

And this is one of my favorites from the series, the Temporal Tower theme.

Here is a link to the remix: Tower_in_Despair'>http://www.remixsite.org/remixes/201-v1-TheGuitahHeroe-

Tower_in_Despair

Version 2: http://www.remixsite.org/remixes/201-v2-TheGuitahHeroe-Tower_in_Despair

Version 3: http://www.remixsite.org/remixes/201-v3-TheGuitahHeroe-Tower_in_Despair

Version 4: http://www.remixsite.org/remixes/201-v4-TheGuitahHeroe-Tower_in_Despair

Version 5: http://www.remixsite.org/remixes/201-v5-TheGuitahHeroe-Tower_in_Despair

Version 8: http://www.remixsite.org/remixes/201-v8-TheGuitahHeroe-Temporal_Despair

And here's the source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6yNpgjfP8

Feedback would be greatly appreciated

-TGH

[halc]

a lot of the mix sounds thin, the background pads and bell textures kinda bleed together and don't have a lot of presence, especially compared to the percussion. the bassline sounds good, but it's not loud enough. i liked the flute section (i think the flute should have played a larger role in the track as a whole), strong melodic presence there, but some of those higher notes were a bit on the harsh side.

arrangement-wise, there's not a lot of deviation from the source apart from the intro and the change of key. try to add some more variation to the melodies, or some of your own counter-melodies or harmonies.

also, you're right - i played through a decent portion of this game and didn't really remember any of the music, but listening to some of it again now, there is definitely some cool stuff here

edit: also just fyi your sig image, although awesome, is 15 pixels over the limit

[TGH]

a lot of the mix sounds thin, the background pads and bell textures kinda bleed together and don't have a lot of presence, especially compared to the percussion. the bassline sounds good, but it's not loud enough. i liked the flute section (i think the flute should have played a larger role in the track as a whole), strong melodic presence there, but some of those higher notes were a bit on the harsh side.

Thank you for the feedback

I actually just completed version 2 of this WIP before I saw your feedback, and it turns out that we were thinking right along the same lines. . . I pretty much saw the same faults as you did in my own remix, and pretty much fixed them all. I got rid of the intro string part completely, I didn't think it sounded good after some listens. . . I also added an organ solo for variety and to deviate from the source, just like you said.

One thing though. . . I'm a little confused as to what a 'countermelody' is. I have a pretty good idea, like it's basically a separate melody that also fits into the phrase and sort of compliments the melody, right? If that's the case, should I set the countermelody at the same frequency as the actual melody with equalization, etc.?

Once again thanks for the feedback

[halc]

I'm a little confused as to what a 'countermelody' is. I have a pretty good idea, like it's basically a separate melody that also fits into the phrase and sort of compliments the melody, right? If that's the case, should I set the countermelody at the same frequency as the actual melody with equalization, etc.?

yep, that's right, though typically a counter-melody would be more of a support, and the focus would still be on the lead.

[TGH]

Ok. Thanks, I tried to implement that into my later versions. . . and btw thanks for letting me know about my sig. . . I had no idea there was a limit XD

[TGH]

Here is the final version:

[yoshi1001]

Yeah, I agree, the music in this series is a bit underrated (then again, I'm probably biased). Anyway, The song's not bad, but there's nothing in there that really grabs me either. One thing that might help is if you could incorporat some of the elements from the subsequent "Temporal Spire" track. Specifically, you could add a ticking sound as a drum sample. I'd also like to hear some type of sound similar to when you suddenly stop a record player (use it sparingly though, or else it will make the mix too cheesy), perhaps between sections of the song with brief silence thereafter.

[Rozovian]

First thing that strikes me with v8 is that the snares are way louder than the kick. Kick needs to be louder, snare and clap need to be softer. Same with the tambourine and hihat, they easily overshadow a lot of the other instruments. The bassline could be a tad louder too, but it's better as-is than if it gets too loud. Overall, the volume levels could use some fixes, I probably missed some instruments there.

Some of the instrumentation sounds a little plain, not sure how you'd bast solve that. Subtle reverb on the pad might work, or a second pad, maybe an octave down. The crescendo sound at 1:34-36 is cool tho, don't change that one. 2:16 synth-bells combination could use some mixing work, it gets a bit muddy there, hard to distinguish the sounds. Dunno if it's a problem that is best solved with EQ, with volumes, or with screwing with the sounds themselves, but see if there's something you can do to make the leads more clear there. You might also want to lower the sustain level on the bells, maybe by 20% or something.

I hear some distortion or something at 1:24-1:35. Could just be my headphones or something, but you should make sure.

Ending with the percussion only is a cool idea, but imo it exposes them too much. You could face them out slower than the rest of the instrumentation, but I would advise against leaving them solo like you have here.

As for source, I think you're in the green. I heard two parts of the source clearly throughout the mix. Feels creative enough to me.

Pretty good. I'd be hesitant to call it finished, but you're close. Nice work.

[TheHands]

I agree with Rozovian, the snare needs to come down a little.

The rest of the instrumentation is pretty good, but seems like they need to cut through various frequencies a little more distinctly.

The keyboard solo and flue follow up is pretty cool, I actually think I'd like to hear more of the flute through the mix (but I'm a sucker for wind instruments).

Nice work so far.

[yoshi1001]

Definitely sounding better, but I think the synth organ at 2:25 is a little out of place.

[TGH]

So I re-made this one. . . . kinda like I did with The Greatest Loss of All, but I think this one turned out better

http://www.box.net/shared/ppqo4k4vdo

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6yNpgjfP8

I'll submit this on April 6, which marks the date three weeks after my last submission, which was The Whip's Memory.

EDIT: There's sort of a render glitch near the beginning, try to ignore it for now, I'll do my best to get it fixed

[NegimaSonic]

*pokeradar beeps*

As usual, I have no criticism really, all I can say is I'm liking the way you turned this kind of dance-y.

Actually, it reminds me a little of some of the Metroid remixes I've heard, not sure which one, but that's not a bad thing.

[TGH]

Update:

http://www.box.net/shared/ppqo4k4vdo

Took a little off the kick in order to make room for everything else. Also it's a lot louder.

[TGH]

Moar compression on the first half, better levelling

http://www.box.net/shared/y7qgipukiv

I'm almost ready to call this finished. . . what do you think?

Thanks,

-TGH

[Emunator]

Hey, just wanted to let you know this one was on my radar and I've given it a preliminary listen, but I need to let it sit for a bit. I just want to make sure you know we didn't skip over this in the meantime

[TGH]

Hey, just wanted to let you know this one was on my radar and I've given it a preliminary listen, but I need to let it sit for a bit. I just want to make sure you know we didn't skip over this in the meantime

Hahaha, thanks a ton Emu, I really appreciate it

[Level 99]

I need to spend more time with the source to make best comments about the arrangement, but I will say there is a lot about this that works. The panned percussion element is pretty cool, and a lot of the sounds you have picked out work very well. The concept is neat transfering the source to a more electronic style, so good on you for that idea.

Two things I can point out immediately that are holding this mix back are the drums and your choice of panning positions.

1) Drums: I need to play this on my monitors, as well as my car stereo, but that kick is super-weak on my headphones. I'm not sure if it is based much more on the sub-bass levels, but it is barely audible as it is right now. You would do well to also layer another kick on top of that one that has some punch in the midrange. The snare is, for lack of a better term, "mushy" and very wet. A crisper, more pronounced snare with some reverb on it would likely achieve your desired effect without losing power and covering up other instruments, which is what the snare does a bit right now. The hi-hat also has too much reverb on it, either that or the wet/dry mix is turned too far into the wet. The clap also suffers this wetness. Overall, the drums just need an overhaul.

2) Panning. The instruments, in general, are either very centered or very hardpanned. For things like the percussion that goes throughout and is present up to the end of the song, that is okay. However, the piano, the chimes, the choir at time, the lead buzz synth, all things like that sound quite awkward when they are hardpanned. Keeping them panned is a good thing, but tone it back a few notches: experiment at what those instruments sound like between the 40% and 20% panning range. I think your soundscape would be better as a result, though after doing so you might need to tinker with the frequencies if mud starts to become present.

More info as I get more familiar with the arrangement, but I hope that helps for now.

[TGH]

I need to spend more time with the source to make best comments about the arrangement, but I will say there is a lot about this that works. The panned percussion element is pretty cool, and a lot of the sounds you have picked out work very well. The concept is neat transfering the source to a more electronic style, so good on you for that idea.

Two things I can point out immediately that are holding this mix back are the drums and your choice of panning positions.

1) Drums: I need to play this on my monitors, as well as my car stereo, but that kick is super-weak on my headphones. I'm not sure if it is based much more on the sub-bass levels, but it is barely audible as it is right now. You would do well to also layer another kick on top of that one that has some punch in the midrange. The snare is, for lack of a better term, "mushy" and very wet. A crisper, more pronounced snare with some reverb on it would likely achieve your desired effect without losing power and covering up other instruments, which is what the snare does a bit right now. The hi-hat also has too much reverb on it, either that or the wet/dry mix is turned too far into the wet. The clap also suffers this wetness. Overall, the drums just need an overhaul.

2) Panning. The instruments, in general, are either very centered or very hardpanned. For things like the percussion that goes throughout and is present up to the end of the song, that is okay. However, the piano, the chimes, the choir at time, the lead buzz synth, all things like that sound quite awkward when they are hardpanned. Keeping them panned is a good thing, but tone it back a few notches: experiment at what those instruments sound like between the 40% and 20% panning range. I think your soundscape would be better as a result, though after doing so you might need to tinker with the frequencies if mud starts to become present.

More info as I get more familiar with the arrangement, but I hope that helps for now.

Are you sure you clicked the right link from my latest post? I'm pretty sure you reviewed the very first rendition I posted, from like more than a year ago. In that one the kick IS practically inaudible, hahaha. . . in the latest one though, the kick is a lot stronger, the drums are better, and so on. . .

If it's this one that you reviewed. . .

http://www.box.net/shared/ppqo4k4vdo (This is actually a small update)

Then I would disagree with the kick not being loud enough, instrument reverb/mushiness, etc. The very first version I posted WAYY back (before I knew how to produce music lol) was pretty bad now that I look back at it, and I think that might have been what you listened to.

[Level 99]

Are you sure you clicked the right link from my latest post? I'm pretty sure you reviewed the very first rendition I posted, from like more than a year ago. In that one the kick IS practically inaudible, hahaha. . . in the latest one though, the kick is a lot stronger, the drums are better, and so on. . .

If it's this one that you reviewed. . .

http://www.box.net/shared/ppqo4k4vdo (This is actually a small update)

Then I would disagree with the kick not being loud enough, instrument reverb/mushiness, etc. The very first version I posted WAYY back (before I knew how to produce music lol) was pretty bad now that I look back at it, and I think that might have been what you listened to.

Nope, I've double checked on both my phone and my desktop, and I have been listening to your latest version. I'd definitely wait for another workshop mod to chime in and agree or disagree, though.

[WillRock]

Just listened.

Not 100% sure how source checks out yet - grr at long source tune, I'll stopwatch it at some point later.

Generally this sounds pretty solid to me. However, Level 99 brings up some fair points, those drums aren't getting the job done for me. They lack punch and don't quite drive the track as they should imo. I'm not sure if you've done this already, but if you haven't, it might be worth layering drum samples together, like 3 snares, each one covering a different part of the frequency spectrum to make a more whole sound. I didn't think the drum reverb was problematic like stevo was suggesting because I thought the reverb on the drums fit the stylistic aesthetic you were going for.

Regarding Panning, I I hear it, didn't really bother me so much, but it might be an idea to listen to level 99. Generally, hard panning something too much is a bad idea, I remember Zircon posting that hard panning anything, if not for a very specific reason, is just going to make your mix sound if not lopsided, then not centered at all, and that can be very distracting. Not that the judges would no you solely for that, but coupled with other issues it might be a problem.

Regarding your drums, what did you do at 2:08? sounds like you turned on an EQ or something, those highs are distracting, particularly in the crash and ride cymbal, that needs fixing. Clap is also too loud, in contrast to the quiet kick Also, bring out that solo in that section, let it shine

I think generally this is very solid, and very close, just fix those few things, and i'll get back to you on source usuage, but it seems to check out from first impressions

EDIT: ok I've just done a source check. Seems to be pretty liberal as a remix, there is alot of original material thats not directly related to the source, particularly in the first 40 secs or so. You might want to make some source references in those first 40 seconds, just to be safe.

Also, picked up some new crits for ya, fancy that - The leads at 2:40 are too quiet, it also seems like they are lopsided to the right a little too much, you might want to fix the panning on those leads, make them more centered - for example - first lead 15% left, second "response" lead 15% right. Makes things more balanced

Generally, that section seems unpolished compared to the rest. Don't get me wrong, its not bad, but production wise, it seems to stickout compared to the rest of the track for the issues I stated earlier so thats your main "fix it up" section for me regarding production. Hope this info helps, its closer than perhaps i'm making out, but fix all these issues and i'll say you're good to go.

[Level 99]

Just listened.

Not 100% sure how source checks out yet - grr at long source tune, I'll stopwatch it at some point later.

Generally this sounds pretty solid to me. However, Level 99 brings up some fair points, those drums aren't getting the job done for me. They lack punch and don't quite drive the track as they should imo. I'm not sure if you've done this already, but if you haven't, it might be worth layering drum samples together, like 3 snares, each one covering a different part of the frequency spectrum to make a more whole sound. I didn't think the drum reverb was problematic like stevo was suggesting because I thought the reverb on the drums fit the stylistic aesthetic you were going for.

Regarding Panning, I I hear it, didn't really bother me so much, but it might be an idea to listen to level 99. Generally, hard panning something too much is a bad idea, I remember Zircon posting that hard panning anything, if not for a very specific reason, is just going to make your mix sound if not lopsided, then not centered at all, and that can be very distracting. Not that the judges would no you solely for that, but coupled with other issues it might be a problem.

Regarding your drums, what did you do at 2:08? sounds like you turned on an EQ or something, those highs are distracting, particularly in the crash and ride cymbal, that needs fixing. Clap is also too loud, in contrast to the quiet kick Also, bring out that solo in that section, let it shine

I think generally this is very solid, and very close, just fix those few things, and i'll get back to you on source usuage, but it seems to check out from first impressions

EDIT: ok I've just done a source check. Seems to be pretty liberal as a remix, there is alot of original material thats not directly related to the source, particularly in the first 40 secs or so. You might want to make some source references in those first 40 seconds, just to be safe.

Also, picked up some new crits for ya, fancy that - The leads at 2:40 are too quiet. Generally, that section seems unpolished compared to the rest. Don't get me wrong, its not bad, but production wise, it seems to stick out compared to the rest of the track for the issues I stated earlier so thats your main "fix it up" section for me regarding production. Hope this info helps, its closer than perhaps i'm making out, but fix all these issues and i'll say you're good to go.

And this is why there are multiple workshop mods.

I finished source checking myself and I have to agree, it is pretty liberal as is. Since none of this is live instrumentation, there should be no harm in making this have too much source and then picking places to inject original material. That kind of method might be easier than taking something too liberal and trying to shoehorn source in there.

[TGH]

Ok, thank you guys for the feedback

I put as much oomph on these drums as I really can without them really overpowering the track. . .

http://www.box.net/shared/6q59ksifqm

Plus I change the solo instrument (slightly differen writing, too), wetted up the part with the flutes a bit. . . and numerous other minute adjustments

[TGH]

Alright, this has been submitted. I'm satisfied with how it sounds now, thanks a lot for the awesome feedback, guys

http://www.box.net/shared/6q59ksifqm

source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6yNpgjfP8

[WillRock]

Good balanced production, and source usage might cause this to be a closer call than it could have been, but this all checks out into a solid remix for me, nice work